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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Okuma > Twin chuck Okuma OSP7000 chuck opens by itself on restart! Plus Multus comments :)
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    2517

    Angry Twin chuck Okuma OSP7000 chuck opens by itself on restart! Plus Multus comments :)

    Have Okuma twin chuck with OSP7000L with a strange problem.
    On restart on sub spindle, the chuck opens and closes by itself when sequence restart button is pressed. But only when restarting from the 2nd tool and then only sometimes. Maybe 50% of the time it will stuff up but it's totally random. If I restart from the beginning of the 2nd end (first tool) the program runs fine and the chuck stays closed always. Unfortunately when the chuck opens the part falls out of the chuck so I get around it by just running the part to the end and if restart is required I run it from the beginning of the 2nd end on sub spindle. Getting a bit sick of constant Okuma issues :-/
    Has anyone heard of such B.S. on any CNC machine? And a solution?
    Okuma guys were consulted but no idea how to solve it.

    I've kind of given up hope it can be fixed but thought I would amuse everyone with yet another Okuma issue that can't be solved. We're ordering a NL2500 soon so I guess it'll be OK Until Mori Arrives :-D
    Gotta love those Okumas purely for the entertainment value ;-)


    btw, I read a very funny thread about Multus B300W. Very entertaining. We have 3 of them and I refused to work them right from the start (5 years ago). The poor bastard that got stuck with it has had nightmares ever since he started. Took 6 months to get them running when installed from new (and I mean literally 6 months. no parts were produced in that time, machines sitting in factory doing nothing for 6 months while problems were fixed and fixed and fixed etc), multiple mechanical and electrical issues, throwing out tools (loved that photo of the thrown out tool stuck in the door in that thread haha!), switch problems, alarms up the wazoo every few days, runs for a few days then down with some issue for 2 weeks. Then repeat that for 5 years. I'm pretty sure the Okuma service guys have bought a 3 storey mansion just down the road from our factory and a couple of twin turbo Mercs with the money they got from coming in and doing repairs every day for 5 years so they can get here faster ;-)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    199
    Quote Originally Posted by fordav11 View Post
    Have Okuma twin chuck with OSP7000L with a strange problem.
    On restart on sub spindle, the chuck opens and closes by itself when sequence restart button is pressed. But only when restarting from the 2nd tool and then only sometimes. Maybe 50% of the time it will stuff up but it's totally random. If I restart from the beginning of the 2nd end (first tool) the program runs fine and the chuck stays closed always. Unfortunately when the chuck opens the part falls out of the chuck so I get around it by just running the part to the end and if restart is required I run it from the beginning of the 2nd end on sub spindle. Getting a bit sick of constant Okuma issues :-/
    Has anyone heard of such B.S. on any CNC machine? And a solution?
    Okuma guys were consulted but no idea how to solve it.

    I've kind of given up hope it can be fixed but thought I would amuse everyone with yet another Okuma issue that can't be solved. We're ordering a NL2500 soon so I guess it'll be OK Until Mori Arrives :-D
    Gotta love those Okumas purely for the entertainment value ;-)


    btw, I read a very funny thread about Multus B300W. Very entertaining. We have 3 of them and I refused to work them right from the start (5 years ago). The poor bastard that got stuck with it has had nightmares ever since he started. Took 6 months to get them running when installed from new (and I mean literally 6 months. no parts were produced in that time, machines sitting in factory doing nothing for 6 months while problems were fixed and fixed and fixed etc), multiple mechanical and electrical issues, throwing out tools (loved that photo of the thrown out tool stuck in the door in that thread haha!), switch problems, alarms up the wazoo every few days, runs for a few days then down with some issue for 2 weeks. Then repeat that for 5 years. I'm pretty sure the Okuma service guys have bought a 3 storey mansion just down the road from our factory and a couple of twin turbo Mercs with the money they got from coming in and doing repairs every day for 5 years so they can get here faster ;-)
    hello friend,
    i just visited my friend's workshop who is having a sigma vmc with a fanuc on it. He told me that the machine was dropping the tool in the middle of the cutting operation (as you said it happened randomly, sometimes with the first tool sometimes with the second) The reason came out to be was humidity and moisture in the atmosphere that was giving a fake signal to it.
    So he just added a push button to the control that he use just when the machine go for a tool change. rest all the time, the controller was unable to tell the plc to drop or change the tool.
    i am not sure if your issue is similar to it but you can think this way too (specially, if your control and drive panel does not has a cooling system with moisture control)
    my friend's sigma vmc has just some air filters and use external air for cooling.

    jasminder singh
    It is better to die for something than to live for nothing.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    6028
    They all have there problems i'm afraid. Even Mori has put some junk out. Fortunately the really bad Mori mills that came out ~97 were promptly pulled back from customers floors. Ive run and worked on Okumas, and for the most part were pretty good, but they had big issues on some machines , they never took them back. Thats why I just kind of chuckle when someone tells me they are buying some high function lathe or mill from a small or unknown builder, cause its cheaper.

  4. #4
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    Apr 2009
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    1262
    Better check your code for M84 commands telling the machine to open the chuck. That's probably what is becoming effective depending on where you restart. (May also be M249 if commanding opposite chuck to open.)

    Best regards,

  5. #5
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    That was the first thing the Okuma service guy said (not wanting to blame their FANTASTIC STATE OF THE ART machine ;-)
    But already tried that. I'm restarting at the same point each time and the open/close is random. I even removed all of the M84 commands (and M249 etc). On restart it still screws up.

  6. #6
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    1262
    Quote Originally Posted by fordav11 View Post
    That was the first thing the Okuma service guy said (not wanting to blame their FANTASTIC STATE OF THE ART machine ;-)
    But already tried that. I'm restarting at the same point each time and the open/close is random. I even removed all of the M84 commands (and M249 etc). On restart it still screws up.
    Ok the obvious one is checked off, now for the not so obvious.

    Have you checked (watched) your hydraulic pressure during th re-start?
    I have seen some that lose enough pressure due to both turrets indexing at the same time that they can drop parts.

    Watch for a big system pressure drop as the re-start is activated. Also check the chuck clamp output signal to make sure it is staying on.

    Best regards,

  7. #7
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    Aug 2011
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    the hydraulic pressure looks ok.
    Yeah I always watch the chuck clamp lights on the panel as soon as I restart. They usually toggle off/on and the part falls out :/
    I did this yesterday as a test and the chuck stayed closed but it was in the morning. I think I've noticed it doesnt stuff up if its the first time I restart after powering on. I'm fairly sure it never dropped a part the first time. It's almost always on subsequent restarts, usually when setting and running the first part and restarting a few times with offset changes to get the sizes right.

    I may have forgot to mention, Okuma got a Japanese tech to come out and have a look and he wasn't able to fix it either. Their solution was to re-write the entire O/S at $5.5k. We said thanks but no thanks

  8. #8
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    Apr 2009
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    I didn't mean the chuck clamp lights, I meant the output to the solenoid from the control. You can view it in the check data screens.

    Also when you re-start what clamp codes show up in your block data?

    Which machine model are we talking here...multis?

    Any special options such such as barfeeder interface?

  9. #9
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    Aug 2011
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    I can check it in the data check screen sure. but any idea which one, there are hundreds of items there spread out over 20+ pages. I remember seeing CHCLMP (chuck clamp) and CHUNCL (or whatever it was now, I forget but its the chuck unclamp signal) but if that's not the ones then I need the name of the item. Either way the control is telling the solenoid the activate so the signal has to be toggling.

    I'll check the block data the next time I do a restart and come back with the result (should be within a few days)

    machine is LT with osp7000L. no special options. it had a parts catcher arm (at least I think thats what it was) but it was removed by someone before we bought it. don't know if that is affecting it? there's a couple of buttons on the panel for it but pressing them (advance/retract) does nothing. the damn machine was pissing coolant out the large hole where the arm used to go and it was bodged up with a piece of plastic and 3 tubes of silicon so we welded up the hole and now no more Niagara Falls there

  10. #10
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    Apr 2009
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    I think that they are oCHOP & oCHCL, and o2CHOP & o2CHCL for 2nd spindle, but I'm going from memory here and the battery is weak...look in your electrical diagrams and it should tell you which nemonic and which EC output # to look at. I'm trying to confirm that the control actually IS telling the solenoid to activate.

    The reason I asked about the bar feeder is that sometimes they skip the Okuma interface and hot wire it using chuck signals...

    I do not think that the missing parts catcher will affect the chuck signals. I'm assuming that they haven't done any creative rewiring after removing it.

    Some code from where the problem is occurring may help though.

    If you have g140/g141 commands nearby your restart points, have you tried number searching to that point and IL/cycle start to see if the same chucking error occurs?

    Which LT? 10,15,25? Is it M or MY?

    Regards,

  11. #11
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    Aug 2011
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    I checked it today. They are BCHO and BCHC (sub-spindle i.e. right chuck). I confirmed they toggle when the foot pedal is pressed but didn't get around to testing the restart on the machine yet (was busy busy busy all day with other things
    Its a 25M. Live tools but no Y axis.

    Here's the entire program for the start and end of each tool. The code in the middle that makes the actual part I have removed for obvious reasons
    The section that transfers the part left to right with chuck open/close m-codes is totally untouched.

    I can restart any tool on the left side and on the right side a restart from N120 works ok, but any N number restart after N120 causes the chuck to open/close first as soon as Sequence Restart is pressed. When I run the program from start to finish it works fine.

    The program might look a little strange because so much is missing but I've been tweaking this code for almost 1 year taking the cycle from 30 minutes to 5 mins 45 seconds so believe me its damn near perfect as far as execution is concerned

    Code:
    G13
    G140
    (FIRST END LEFT SIDE)
    G0 X50 Z50
    ( )
    N5
    N6
    ( )
    N10
    P10
    G50 S1600 M42
    G00 X50
    G00 T0707
    G96 S550 G110 M3
    ...
    G00 X50 M9
    M01
    ( )
    N20
    P20
    G50 S2500 M42
    G00 X50
    G00 T0909
    G97 S2000 M3 P21
    ...
    P22
    P23
    ( )
    N30
    P35
    ( )
    N40
    P45
    ( )
    N60
    P65
    ( )
    N70
    P75
    ( )
    N80
    P89
    ( )
    N90
    P90
    N95
    P95
    ( )
    N110 (TRANSFER)
    P110
    P116
    M185
    M247
    M249
    M151
    G00 Z-14.859 W-0.65
    G94 G01 F50
    G29 PW=28
    G22 W-0.8000 D=0.10 L=0.10 F12 PW=28
    G28
    M248
    M84
    G01 W-0.65 F50.0
    M150
    M184
    M246
    G95
    P117
    G0 Z50 W50
    P118
    ( )
    (2ND END RIGHT SIDE)
    N120
    G141
    P120
    G50 S2000 M42
    G00 X50
    G00 T1010
    G96 S850 M03 G110
    ...
    G00 X50 Z3.1 M9
    M01
    ( )
    N140
    P140
    G50 S2000 M42
    G00 X50
    G00 T0808
    G96 S500 M03 G110
    ...
    G00 X50 Z0.1 M09
    M01
    ( )
    N150
    P150
    G50 S2000 M42
    G00 X50
    G00 T0505
    G96 S600 M3 G110
    ...
    G00 X50 Z50 M9
    M01
    ( )
    N160
    P165
    ( )
    N170
    N172
    P175
    ( )
    N180
    P180
    ( )
    ( )
    G14
    G140
    (FIRST END LEFT SIDE)
    N2
    P2
    N5
    P5
    G50 S1500 M42
    G0 X50
    G00 T1111
    G97 S500 M3
    ...
    G00 X50 M9
    M01
    ( )
    N6
    P6
    G50 S1500 M42
    G0 X50
    G00 T1212
    G97 S700 M3
    ...
    G00 X50
    M01
    ( )
    N10
    P15
    ( )
    N20
    ( )
    N30
    P20
    G50 S2500 M42
    G00 X50
    G00 T0808
    G97 S2000 M3 P21
    ...
    P22
    G96 S600 M03 G111
    ...
    G00 X50 Z0 M9
    M01
    ( )
    N40
    P40
    G50 S2000 M42
    G00 X50
    G00 T0303
    G96 S500 M03 G111
    ...
    G0 X50 Z0
    M01
    ( )
    N70
    P70
    G00 X50
    G00 T0505
    G96 S300 M3 G111
    ...
    G00 X50
    M01
    ( )
    N80
    P80
    G00 X50
    G00 T0606
    G96 S300 M3 G111
    ...
    G00 X50
    M01
    ( )
    N85
    P85
    G00 X50
    G00 T0707
    G96 S300 M3 G111
    ...
    G00 X50
    M01
    ( )
    N90
    N95
    P95
    ( )
    N110 (TRANSFER)
    P110
    G00 X50.0
    P116
    X50
    P117
    Z12.0
    P118
    ( )
    N120
    G141
    (2ND END RIGHT SIDE)
    P125
    ( )
    N140
    P145
    ( )
    N150
    P155
    ( )
    N160
    P160
    G00 X50
    G00 T0808
    G96 S300 M3 G111
    ...
    G00 X50
    M01
    ( )
    N170
    P170
    G00 X50
    G00 T0202
    G96 S300 M3 G111
    ...
    G00 X50
    M01
    ( )
    N172
    P172
    G00 X50
    G00 T0909
    G96 S300 M3 G111
    ...
    G00 X50
    M01
    ( )
    N180
    P180
    M02

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1982

    diagnostic

    I would start to check leaving only "transfer" part of the program. If it works good, then adding more and more until one piece makes program to act faulty on restart.
    It's a long way. Maybe machine will actuate the chuck on first attempt.
    There is one more place to check:
    check, if your limit switches are adjusted correctly. check, if parameter "clamp OD ID" is set correctly.
    Make shorter copy of program, go step-by-step, maybe it helps ...

  13. #13
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    Aug 2011
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    I solved the problem. Basically when Okuma Japan wrote the OSP7000 control software they didn't test it enough before signing off on the code

  14. #14
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    Jun 2005
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    142
    Do you mind telling us how you solved the problem so the rest of us running untested 7000 controls can do the same?

  15. #15
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    it's a controller software bug. it requires an update/bug-fix to the O/S from Okuma

  16. #16
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    In my previous post I asked if you removed the M84/M249 etc. commands, and you claimed you had, but your posted code shows them still in there. Take them out or put them in parenthesis () to have the control ignore them and then try the restart at N120 to see if the issue goes away.

    Sorry-been busy and haven't been able to study your code or post in a bit.

    Best regards,

  17. #17
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    the program I posted was the original program un-edited. I did take them out and the problem stopped. easy temporary solution is simply add block delete to those lines and press the BD button before a restart so they are skipped
    The permanent solution is to update the control software to current version as stated in previous post.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by fordav11 View Post
    the program I posted was the original program un-edited. I did take them out and the problem stopped. easily temporary solution is simply add block delete to those lines and press the BD button before a restart so they are skipped
    The permanent solution is to update the control software to current version as stated in previous post.
    Better $ solution is to skip the software update and use the already standard system variable for Restart = VRSTT to skip automatically if restart is active...

    Just add an IF statement before your chuck unclamp:


    NCK2 IF[VRSTT NE 0]NRUN (IF RESTART)
    M84
    NRUN

    Will work like a champ!

    Best regards,

  19. #19
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    Aug 2011
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    ah ok will try it.

    Maybe you can help with another restart-related issue

    Check the same program I posted before.
    On restarting from the transfer (N110) the sub spindle goes into overtravel. It moves back about 2". Its not random, it does it every time when restarted from N110. When the program is run from start to finish it works fine. If I restart from any other place it works fine. I suspect it has something to do with the G00 Z50 lines from previous tools. Normally it would just go to maximum Z (which is the intention of that line) but on the transfer restart it seems to be trying to physically go to Z50 (max Z travel is about 20"-25"). Thus going into Z-overtravel :/
    If this were a Fanuc I would use G28 etc but this doesn't seem to have a 'go home' command?

  20. #20
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    Jun 2008
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    Is the tool offset still active at N110?

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