[Roberto Hodgson]

Hello I am Bob as everyone when introduce himself, I am new in cnc machine and is my first post on CNC Zone.
I am a medical doctor whose hobby is RC airplane.
Ok let's go to the point. Last month I receive an apparently new machine, from a Hong Kong site ignoring the advice what some people said on some forum about the site.
My machine is a Walter 6545L. It came with no parallel cable, with no energy cable for 110V that I asked for because my country has 110V, the cable for the X, Y, Z where wrong configured, the plug for the spindle won't matched with the control box. So I had to change and fix all those problems. When I try to start the machine and Estop button, won't work at all on the axes and spindle. A Chinese electronic worker said me that there was a LED on, saying that there where short circuit on the VFD Spindle, circuit board, no Volt on the spinner, output socket and on the steeper motor output where about 14V, and this won't moved the axes. Then I reviewed the energy, input socked and the fuse and I realized that they sent me a 220V control box, it was another fix I had to do and active my 220V switch of my home and so, the short circuit LED on, goes off and in a short time I register with my multimeter in company of an electronic worker a voltage of about 24V on the three axes output and the spinner output, that made the axes work for a short time (happy for short time) No smoke, no bad odors, no burned PCB, but I suspect about some microcontroller on the interface card (Breakout board) with the parallel port and output, pins data to the 4 axis drive and spindle drive . After all, this nightmare, the control box was dead, no matter what multiple, configuration introduced in Mach3 software. (after testing my PC parallel port which is Ok, if I disconnect the data cable to those board the knob for each axis turn hard to move)
I sent many pictures to the sender on Hong Kong and I think. they recognized, that there are, multiple problems, because they told me that they will be sending another control box and a VFD apart not integrated. But, because I am not sure about that, I sent them an e mail via PayPal to confirm, before the end of the complaint time and they answer me saying that they can recognize me 400 USD (the machine cost was 1,440.00USD) I told them, that, I only want the machine functioning and I will be, OK.
Excuse me for all this history because I only want to know, if anybody can help me finding a solution.
I think that the problem is in the interface card. If I disconect the data cables to the axis drives all the axix motor are charged, plug again and no energy to the motors (easy to move, the Knob) If another interface card or control box that match my CNC machine stepper motor spindle and water pump can fix those problems I will be grateful with you, thanks beforehand.

[mactec54]

Roberto Hodgson

The 220v is what your first problem is, Your voltage is the same as the US 120v single phase to get the 220v single phase,(Europe Etc) you can not use the 2 hot 110v wires to make 220v, In this case as you need 1 220v hot a neutral & ground for your power into the control box, you could use a 120v to 220v step up transformer of the correct size this would get your power set up correct to start with

[tracyranson]

Hello I am Bob as everyone when introduce himself, I am new in cnc machine and is my first post on CNC Zone.
I am a medical doctor whose hobby is RC airplane.
Ok let's go to the point. Last month I receive an apparently new machine, from a Hong Kong site ignoring the advice what some people said on some forum about the site.
My machine is a Walter 6545L. It came with no parallel cable, with no energy cable for 110V that I asked for because my country has 110V, the cable for the X, Y, Z where wrong configured, the plug for the spindle won't matched with the control box. So I had to change and fix all those problems. When I try to start the machine and Estop button, won't work at all on the axes and spindle. A Chinese electronic worker said me that there was a LED on, saying that there where short circuit on the VFD Spindle, circuit board, no Volt on the spinner, output socket and on the steeper motor output where about 14V, and this won't moved the axes. Then I reviewed the energy, input socked and the fuse and I realized that they sent me a 220V control box, it was another fix I had to do and active my 220V switch of my home and so, the short circuit LED on, goes off and in a short time I register with my multimeter in company of an electronic worker a voltage of about 24V on the three axes output and the spinner output, that made the axes work for a short time (happy for short time) No smoke, no bad odors, no burned PCB, but I suspect about some microcontroller on the interface card (Breakout board) with the parallel port and output, pins data to the 4 axis drive and spindle drive . After all, this nightmare, the control box was dead, no matter what multiple, configuration introduced in Mach3 software. (after testing my PC parallel port which is Ok, if I disconnect the data cable to those board the knob for each axis turn hard to move)
I sent many pictures to the sender on Hong Kong and I think. they recognized, that there are, multiple problems, because they told me that they will be sending another control box and a VFD apart not integrated. But, because I am not sure about that, I sent them an e mail via PayPal to confirm, before the end of the complaint time and they answer me saying that they can recognize me 400 USD (the machine cost was 1,440.00USD) I told them, that, I only want the machine functioning and I will be, OK.
Excuse me for all this history because I only want to know, if anybody can help me finding a solution.
I think that the problem is in the interface card. If I disconect the data cables to the axis drives all the axix motor are charged, plug again and no energy to the motors (easy to move, the Knob) If another interface card or control box that match my CNC machine stepper motor spindle and water pump can fix those problems I will be grateful with you, thanks beforehand.

If you will email to me all your details about the machine, the drivers, interface board, power supple and settings you have in Mach3 I just might be able to help you with one try. Send email to [email protected]

[mactec54]

Roberto Hodgson

Also you may need to use the usb cable, from your computer to the control box, as this supplies 5v
which you need, on some of these controls

[Roberto Hodgson]

thanks mactec54

my apartment have 220V socket for Air conditioner, no problem with that. As you can see in the pictures attached, the breakout board, has a 5V external energy that come from de power supply in the box (no need for USB, energy cable), is why I think that is a problem of the BOB. because when I test the pins coming out of the interface card (BOB), don't register the signal sent by Mach3. (multimeter)
I ask you what you think about this 5 axis breakout board to replace, the one in the control box.

5 Axis Breakout Board for Stepper Motor Driver CNC Mill | eBay

[mactec54]

Roberto Hodgson

The power at your apartment has 220v power, Yes, but unless this has (1) power (Hot) wire & a Neutral it is not correct for your control box, in your control box you have (1) red wire (Hot) & (1) White wire (Neutral)

Your apartment power 220v, does not have the Neutral wire, you have to Hot wires & a ground. this will not work with your control box

The breakout board looks ok but you don't have spindle control on it

[Johann ohnesorg]

Surely it will work. The 220 in american wiring are two legs of one transformer, there are two possibilities to connect, middle to end of winding yielding 110V or end of winding to the other end which will spit out 220V.
This can easily be verified with a cheap RMS voltmeter doing a AC measurement of the voltage, so don´t talk bogus here.

I would however see that the machine gets altered to 110V in case you ever have to switch apartments. Another thing: keep the 400$ if they offer them to you, you´ll have a lot of work with the machine til it´s up and running.
Try to find the manufacturer of the single components of your drive and see how it is wired up, seems someone with no clear idea put the system together and you may be heading for trouble. Please excuse my gloomy forecast.

Cheers,
Johann

[mactec54]

Johann ohnesorg
(Quote so don´t talk bogus here. )

The only one that talking bogus is you, about something you obvious no nothing about, Just do a Google search, & you may get it right, writing information like this only confuses someone trying to get it right


First, the standard household electrical outlet in most of Europe—including Austria, Germany, and Switzerland—packs a wallop of 220-240 volts, twice the standard household voltage in North America. A normal 110/120-volt electrical appliance designed for use in the US, Canada, or Mexico will provide a nice fireworks display, complete with sparks and smoke, if plugged into a European outlet without a voltage converter.

This was taken form a Google page on voltage in Germany

The same applies the other way round he needs a step up transformer to run it on 220v from the 120V US power He can not put it on the 220V US power as it does not have a Neutral, His control box is looking for a Neutral wire

[rpovey]

mactec is correct here.

US 220V, is 2 out of phase live 110V wires.
European 240V is one live and one return neutral wire.

Yes both produce a net 220-240V AC signal across the pair of wires, buy whether or not something can be made to work with the 2 live wires, is entirely dependent on how it treats the neutral wire.

[john-100]

things to watch out for

equipment wired for european 240V supplies may have a single pole on/offswitch
that should be replaced by a two pole switch when connected to a US 220V supply

US 220V equipment only needs the insulation to withstand 110V to earth and may need upgrading to be used on a european supply ( live - earth 240V)


John

[Roberto Hodgson]

Sorry people
Today I read all your messages. As soon as possible I will put them all in concideration and some practice and I will give the results.
I trying to get some time to work with my cnc machine, but I'm on call, medical this week so I can not answer your advice, when ready will be back with you

[Al_The_Man]

Yes both produce a net 220-240V AC signal across the pair of wires, buy whether or not something can be made to work with the 2 live wires, is entirely dependent on how it treats the neutral wire.

Whether N.A. 240v 1 ph with the centre tap neutral or Europe with 240v one side neutral and they are both 240v 1phase, an AC load does not 'see' a neutral' as far as the load is concerned it is 240v 1ph, period.
The only difference as mentioned is in the switching and possibly fusing, two fuses or one if one is a neutral.
Al.

[Johann ohnesorg]

The same applies the other way round he needs a step up transformer to run it on 220v from the 120V US power He can not put it on the 220V US power as it does not have a Neutral, His control box is looking for a Neutral wire

Dear Mactec54,
between the lines you explain pretty well that you have absolutely no clue of AC power whatsoever. Furthermore, you seem to be slightly impaired to understand information from written sources, the threadstarter received a 220V machine from China. However, as it seems you know how to use google. Maybe google "voltage between phases" to enlighten yourself and spare yourself further embarassment.
As I wrote in my first post, American two phase 110V are two legs of one transformer with a middle tap. When you connect both ends, you get 110+110V= 220V. As stated before, this can be proofed with a cheapo voltmeter doing an AC measurement.
In an european net, you would get sqrt3*230V = 400V between two phases because the phase angle is not 180° like in an american net but 120° because we use three phases over here. Back when we used 220V in Germany, it was 380V between phases.
The machine will run. What is missing is ground, or in electricians language, PE. This is used to measure leakage currents between the three phases in a PEN net to protect the user of the machine in case of an insulation failure.

Before you rant, get your facts straight and see that you really understood what was said before. Clearly, nearly 2000 posts are a quantity, but they are not a guarantee for the quality of the given information.

Cheers,
Johann

[mactec54]

Johann ohnesorg

I see you are trying to make a non valid point again, This whole problem is not really about the voltage,
Most people know, that 120 + 120= 240 Plus Ground or centre tap for Neutral=120

We also know he has a 220v control box, But he did try it on 120v to start & everything was fine except for the DC output voltage was to low for it to make things work, the problem only started when he connected the 220v

Its about the electronics, & the switch mode power supply with needs to see a Neutral
to function properly, most electronic devices need a full sine wave as well

Some 220v single-phase devices will work on 220v split-phase.Just fine, Heating elements for instance. However most electronics designed to work on single-phase *won't* work on split-phase.Unless designed for it, Motors can work off either, but you have to change some of the the wiring connections.

I hope this helps you see that you have made a mistake,

Here is an example,from a system I had to trouble shoot recently, Photos enclosed,
The system had been wired for 220V US, so the power supplies were switched to 220V & power was applied to them, everything seemed to be fine untill they tried to run the servo motors, they ran very badly, they changed servo drives motors encoders, but did not think there was a problem with the power supplies because the output voltage had been checked & was correct

These are switch mode power supplies, they are rated to run on 115V/230V
They would not run correct when the the US 220V was wired to them once a Neutral wire was run to the power supplies & run on 120V 1 hot Neutral & Ground everything in the system work how it should

[Al_The_Man]

A neutral just happens to be an AC conductor that is grounded, it does not affect its relationship with other AC conductors at all, IOW the AC relationship or qualities are not changed in any way.
An AC load will is still treated the same way whether the conductor is grounded or not.
Al.

[mactec54]

Roberto Hodgson

Update, after looking through all the documents for your control box I found what we were looking for, the electronics in your box was designed for running on 120v or 220V US, They called it 2 phase so thats the good part, but was the box that you got really for 220V did it have the tag on it for 220v,They state this in there information to check this first before connecting the AC power input for 220v, They have put a lot of good information together for there machines Much better than most

[Al_The_Man]

I found what we were looking for, the in your box was designed for running on 120v or 220V US, They called it 2 phase so thats

I don't interpret that as calling it 2 phase power, They actually say 120v or 220v AND 2 phases. Which I would assume is connecting across 2 phases of a three phase supply, which in any case is technically not 2 phases without a third reference, but I think I get what their intent (it is still single phase).
Al..

[mactec54]

Al_The_Man

It is quite easy to see what there intent was meant to be, single phase is all it could have meant when is has 120/220V single phase listed

[Al_The_Man]

Yes but by the wording it also looks like they intend to mean also 2 phases of a 3 phase supply, which is perfectly feasible and the supply will not know any difference at all.
Al.

[hub]

I live in Finland, we have 230V here with one L & 1 N + gnd.
Reading all this, I didn't understand:
- Could you get 240V from connecting your L1 & L2 in series? If not, why? They would be out of phase? What problems would that have?
- What is the reason for 2 L's? Why have 2 if it can't produce double voltage? For more current?

Also for consideration, the frequency is different.. We had some trouble with motor timing to US. We had to make a different gear ratio. Since US is 60Hz & we have 50 Hz.

Hub