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IndustryArena Forum > CAM Software > GibbsCAM > gonna be a gibbs guy soon
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    121

    gonna be a gibbs guy soon

    Looks like my company is buying gibbs cam for our 4 axis miller. I haven't used CAM before how difficult is it to start producing? Can i use 2d CAD files? Is this as complicated as learning AutoCAD or Solidworks? or is it user friendly?
    Most dwgs i have right now are AutoCAD, with a few Solidworks, but mainly 2D, how important is it to learn 3D?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    45
    Gibbscam is very powerful and easy to learn.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    21
    I've been using Gibbs for almost 10 years. I've never even had time to go to a training class and I find it very easy to use. The 3D portion of any CAM software has a higher learning curve but it is necessary and it will help you even with parts that are more 2D in nature. IMO, Gibbs is far simpler to use than AutoCAD and also simpler to use than Solidworks, though of course, they are both CAD rather than CAM.

    There are other good products out there as well but I'm happy with Gibbs and have never even entertained switching to something else.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    4519
    I have found that MasterCAM is easier for creating geometry and has more options available when creating tool paths. GibbsCAM is good for point, click, machine. GibbsCAM is quicker to start making G-code with.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1880
    I've used Gibbs, master-cam, surf-cam, and played with a few others and they are all good. They all have strong points, Gibbs-cam 2.5d stuff is best of the ones I've use, master-cam has infinite options (it seams) but has a steep learning curve (at least pre X) and surf-cam has great 3d stuff but none 3d stuff is super cumbersome!

    They will all get you there! I use Gibbs-cam almost exclusively now just do to ease of use. The other two just don't have the Idea of K.I.S.S (keep it simple stupid) and really other than a few options that I've never really cared for you aren't loosing much by the simplistic approach.
    thanks
    Michael T.
    "If you don't stand for something, chances are, you'll fall for anything!"

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    0
    We had Gibbs do a demo this week and it seems very user friendly?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    235
    What are all these other "options" I keep hearing about that MC has that Gibbs doesn't. I use Gibbs 10hrs/day 6 days a week. I have never ran out of "options". Maybe you guys are running an older version than me. As far as I'm concerned, I have 1 option for roughing 2d: Volumill. For 3d, they have so many tool paths if you can't find the right one your doing something wrong. Then there's the menus. Open, close, open, close, open, close. How do you get anything done when 50% of your mouse clicks are used to close a dialog box. Check out my screen shot below. That says it all. Everything open and available all the time.
    I don't mind a software discussion but, every time someone asks to compare Gibbs to MC, they always says there is more you can do with MC than you can do with Gibbs. Really? Then start giving examples and I bet I can show you Gibbs can do the same thing. The one thing everyone always gets right is speed. Gibbs is fast. I can write a program for our dual spindle lathe, with turn and mill work on both spindles, in less than 45 mins. I'd like to see any other software come close to that.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails screen shot.jpg  

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1880
    I have very little experience in anything BUT Gibbs so I don't tend to argue with naysayers. I love what your saying though and I agree....no one has every said "here do this, I bet mine does it better and faster"....lets put the money where the mouth is.
    thanks
    Michael T.
    "If you don't stand for something, chances are, you'll fall for anything!"

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by double a-ron View Post
    Check out my screen shot below. That says it all. Everything open and available all the time.
    Wow, Bill Gibbs puked on your screen.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    235
    It's all about marketing. Ever wonder why MC spends more money on marketing than any other cam system? A good product can sell itself and shouldn't need to be shoved in your face all the time. Think about drug dealers, they don't do any marketing. Drugs sell themselves. Funny how the most expensive cam suites available do almost no advertising. All in all, I'm glad mc is "the most used cam software". Makes it that much easier to compete.

    P.S., If that's Bill's vomit on my screen, then I hope he continues to have stomach problems. That vomit made me a lot of money this year.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    23
    I think it’s all about proficiency. I’ve been using MC since its DOS days (v5), and just before I retired was using X4. So naturally I think MC is better. I’m sure if I had the same experience with Gibbs I’d feel the same about it.
    This kind of argument makes about as much sense as whether Chevy is better than Ford.
    Harry

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    235
    If you have only used one system then yes, your correct. If you've used both, as I have, then you can form an opinion based on your experience. Believe me, there is nothing one can do the other can not. The real difference is the UI. The Gibbs UI is much faster, therefore you can write the same program MC can write, only quicker. More programs per day, equals more money, which means bigger ROI. I got to work today at 6:15 am. I've written 5 mill programs and 2 lathe programs. As well as setting both machines up, and keeping them running. It's now 12:13 pm. If any MC user would like to challenge me I'd be up for it. Like miljnor said, "....lets put the money where the mouth is".

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    53
    [QUOTE=DepthOfCut;1004302]Gibbs is far simpler to use than AutoCAD and also simpler to use than Solidworks, QUOTE]

    Solidworks does a hell off alot more and i find it the easiest cad software out there. I have used Solidworks for years and exclusively use it for moddeling before going into gibbs. But a solidworks liscence is very expencive and if you only require to machine and model simple parts then it fine.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1880
    solidworks and Gibbs shouldn't even be compared they have a totally different focus.

    One is for machining and one is for generating design and conceptual parts and assemblies.

    you really need both or those to be in the game. although a machine shop can do well without a "solid works" (CAD) type program. A "Gibbs" (or CAM) program is almost mandatory these days. almost.

    EDIT: sorry didn't read your post well enough....the above is still true but has no bearing to a specific post.
    thanks
    Michael T.
    "If you don't stand for something, chances are, you'll fall for anything!"

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    26
    I just got quoted for GibbsCam 2.5D: $8,000.00
    2 days of training: $1,600.00
    Annual maintenance: $980.00
    2 Milling post processors: $400.00
    Total: $10,980.00

    Really, 11 Grand? I have been writing my own G-code for almost 20 years. Yes, on more complicated mill jobs it does take me longer. But my shop runs many of the same parts over and over. So my programs are sometimes years old. I want the power of the cam software but I still feel that the ROI for my shop is small. If I was to obtain some new customers that had multiple small lot parts. Yes, I could see this powerful software helping my shop. However, just to buy it to "have it" is not a good business decision.

    Is this annual maintenance fee EVERY YEAR? (what a scam)

    And $800.00 per day for training? I am sure I know leagues more about machining than this "instructor" does. I have heard the stories about seasoned machinists going into Cam School and getting very annoyed with the instructor about his lack of experience and general lack of machine shop knowledge. I heard about a Mastercam KID-Teacher. In his diatribe to the class he professed to use the moveable jaw as Y zero.

    Nuff said.

    I wish I had 11 grand laying around somewhere. In this business we are in, the money goes out as fast as it comes in. I still can't justify this expence.

    Anything helpful to add?

    Jake

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    80
    Gibbs is really good software. I use it everyday. Unfortunately that is how it is with most that you pay a maintenance fee. Look up HSM works. They now have their 2.5D version free for download. I have it too. It is a nice software, but you have to have Solidworks to run it.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    235
    It's worth every penny. I have done 2,218 programs with Gibbs since I got it two and a half years ago. There are days where I've done 6. Cam is a tool that alows you to get programing done faster so you can worry about other things, like set up. Also, there is simply no way you can remove material faster programming by hand than you can with the new dynamic toolpaths that are out.

    If you think 11k is expensive, I've got close to 30 in mine. It paid for itself the first year.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by double a-ron View Post
    It's worth every penny. I have done 2,218 programs with Gibbs since I got it two and a half years ago. There are days where I've done 6. Cam is a tool that alows you to get programing done faster so you can worry about other things, like set up. Also, there is simply no way you can remove material faster programming by hand than you can with the new dynamic toolpaths that are out.

    If you think 11k is expensive, I've got close to 30 in mine. It paid for itself the first year.
    I know it's awesome software. You would have to be a fool to not acknowledge that fact. However, in these times we are in, an investment like this would put me under. I know it will make superior programs when it comes to more complex parts with alot of material removal. But the day to day mill, drill & tap type parts with straight forward programing, I just don't see the advantage. Again, I don't see too many super complex parts in here.

    One shop I know that loves Feature Cam:
    They take any job. They have to. They have a large shop with many employees. Too many machines to program for one programmer (owner). They love this CAM stuff. But they also do whacky parts for many new companies with non-proven designs. Much of their work does not repeat. They will take one-offs of great complexity. Then they have to deal with pain in the ass super-fussy customers who are not really ever going to get their idea off the ground. I can't make money this way. Not with my current customers. Nor do I want to.

    Does this volumill stuff really work? I mean in real materials like 316 SST? I have been around long enough to know that, yeah, it will do it once, maybe 5 times at these crazy feed rates and then snap! Goodbye Mr. End mill. I want to see 100 parts made before any tool changeout. Ever see the Apps. guys at the Machine tool show? Pushing face mills to the limit on steel. Throwing blue chips w/o coolant. What you will also notice, is that they have a new facemill ready to go between runs. Yeah I get it. Our new mill is so robust that is can make this type of cut. You just have to replace the inserts between each workpiece at $100.00 per part. But it saves time!

    This idea of putting 5 grand of tooling into a 6 grand job does not work for me. I would rather take another day or two longer and cut slower and make the tooling last. My profit margins are razor thin. Starting to wade through endmills and such will kill any profit I have.

    I want the software. But I still don't see the profit (at this point in my shop) to justify the price.

    Jake

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    80
    Yes the volumill stuff really works

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    235
    Not only does it work but, if you have a small machine like I do (a Haas mini mill 2, with a 7 peak hp spindle) then it is a must. You program for best case scenario, like a straight line cut. The toolpath constantly adjusts feedrate and stepover to keep the spindle at full load. Not 40% then spikes at 200% then back to 40%. I keep my spindle loaded at 125% at all times. I wring every last kw out of it. And believe it or not its easier on the tool and the machine. Spikes hurt. Also, my tool life has gone through the roof. I run full depth all the time so I am always getting the most out of my end mills.

    Total cost to upgrade to volumill was rather expensive. Haas got 2500 to turn on HSM and gibbs got 2800 for the volumill solids modual. Paid for it with two jobs I wouldn't even cosidered taking in if I didn't have it.

    I guess I always try to buy a tool first then get into the market that requires it. Did that with the mill, lathe and software. It's hard to get into a new area and quote work if you don't have the right tools. Next up is solid surfacer and the mold industry. I'm dying to try my hand at mold making.

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