[laka]

So, just got these new to me machines with Fanuc O series controls. I can download programs/parameters thru RS232 and NCNet Lite from both machines without any trouble, but I cannot upload programs to either machine. Continuously am getting alarm #86

I could only find one set of parameters dealing with RS232 setting, unless I am missing a bunch that are related to uploading programs?

Any ideas? Thanks

[Dan Fritz]

What procedure are you using? If you press INPUT on the CNC before the DNC software opens the port, you might get the 086 alarm because of the way the cable is wired. An 068 alarm doesn't seem to happen when you're sending from the CNC to the PC, probably because you're opening the port on the DNC system (getting it ready to receive) before you try to send from the CNC.

Most people jumper pins 6, 8, and 20 together on the CNC side of the cable, which will defeat the 086 alarm no matter which direction the data goes. If, however, your cable has pins 6 and 8 on the CNC side tied to either 4 or 7 on the PC side, then the Fanuc won't get a signal on pins 6 or 8 until you open the port on the PC first.

Can you get the DNC software ready to send first, then press INPUT on the CNC to trigger the data flow? That would probably solve the problem. If that doesn't do it, you may have to re-make your cable like so:

CNC side ------------ PC side (9-pin)
pin 2 -------------------- pin 2
pin 3--------------------- pin 3
pin 5--------------------- pin 7
pin 7--------------------- pin 5
pin 6 ----
pin 8 ---- <-- jumper these 3 together on CNC side onlyl
pin 20 ---

[txcncman]

One bad pin can cause this problem. You probably need to test everything for connection with an ohmmeter.

[angelw]

One bad pin can cause this problem. You probably need to test everything for connection with an ohmmeter.

Actually the cause is the Data Set Ready signal is low which is pin 6 on the DB25 connector. Its as explained by Dan.

If softaware handshaking is used, most common, then pins 6,8 and 20 are bridged to keep the control side happy to send and receive. Pins 6 and 8 are powered off of pin 20. As Dan suggested, some power pins 6 and 8 from pin 4 on the PC side, and again as Dan suggested, pins 6 and 8 won't be powered until the com port being used on the PC is opened. Accordingly, the OP needs to focus on why pins 6 is not being powered. It could be break in the wire from pin 6 at the DB25 connector to the control board, but its more likely to be a cabling issue as suggested by Dan.

Regards,

Bill

[fordav11]

We had exactly the same problem (one way transfer). We tested the cable on a different machine and it worked. it ended up being the controller was faulty. We had to get a Fanuc service guy to repair it.

Anyway, test the cable on a different machine. if it doesn't work its your cable.

most PCs have 9 pin serial port connector. Use the pinout on the left below.....



If your cable is known to work with a different CNC machine then your controller has a faulty communication board.

[angelw]

Anyway, test the cable on a different machine. if it doesn't work its your cable.

Note that laka has the same issue with two machines just received. Possible, but unlikely that both would be suffering the same control problem, at the same time. To me that's a good sign; it points more to cable than it does machine.

Dan's cable configuration is achieving the result of the 4-5 bridge you've shown in your cabe config, by the connection of pin 5 on the machine side to pin 7 on the PC side. But the alarm #86 still comes back to an issue with the Data Set Ready line.

The asserted condition on a control line is when there is a voltage of between +3v to +25v, normally around 10v. This can be measured on pin 20 on the machine side to see it its capable of asserting logic 1 to 6 and 8. But before getting into that, it will take but a few minutes to make a cable with the pinout describe in your post #5. This pinout seldom fails, unless there is an issue with the control.

I've seen on a few occasions where there has been an issue with pin 20 on the machine side. A work around is to do as Dan suggested how some cables are configured, that being to conect 6 and 8 on the machine side to pin 4 on the PC side.

Regards,

Bill



Regards,

Bill

[txcncman]

Not all machines with Fanuc control are wired the same for RS232. Most are, but not all. This is why you really should have the manuals and read them.

[angelw]

Not all machines with Fanuc control are wired the same for RS232. Most are, but not all. This is why you really should have the manuals and read them.

Although the RS232 standard can be a bit grey, I'm yet to see a Fanuc control that does not comply to the popular standard. They vary in the parameter setup, for example, some Fanuc controls allow you to select whether control characters are used (DC1 to DC4), whilst other don't. With the 0 Series Controls using ISO format, only Baud rate and the number of Stop Bits can be set, but the cable configuration can be as Dan and fordav11 have described, ford's config being the most frequently used.

Regards,

Bill

[dcoupar]

Although the RS232 standard can be a bit grey, I'm yet to see a Fanuc control that does not comply to the popular standard. They vary in the parameter setup, for example, some Fanuc controls allow you to select whether control characters are used (DC1 to DC4), whilst other don't. With the 0 Series Controls using ISO format, only Baud rate and the number of Stop Bits can be set, but the cable configuration can be as Dan and fordav11 have described, ford's config being the most frequently used.

Regards,

Bill

Just out of curiosity Bill, what's your opinion of Fanuc putting 24v on pin 25? I've always thought this could be very dangerous, and wonder if anyone has ever fried some delicate equipment due to this?

Dave

[angelw]

Just out of curiosity Bill, what's your opinion of Fanuc putting 24v on pin 25? I've always thought this could be very dangerous, and wonder if anyone has ever fried some delicate equipment due to this?

Dave

Hi Dave,
Pin 25 on a DB25 connector is used for no purpose other than testing. Accordingly, its probably safe simply because its highly unlikely that any connection to it would be made. The voltage for the RS232 control circuit is +3v to +25v for logic 1, notwithstanding that its generally around 9v to 13v, and although I've not done so, it should be safe to connect the control lines to pin 25 (but I'm not sure what protection this pin has), if for some reason pin 20 was not viable. Further, it should be safe to connect an external devices that uses RS232 protocal to it.

I've never heard of any equipement being damaged because of the voltage from pin 25, but it would be possible if the device couldn't tolerate that voltage level and there was a short to it, but no more so than being damaged by the voltage from pin 20, although, as stated before, pin 20's voltage is normally around 9v to 13v.

Regards,

Bill

[dcoupar]

Hi Dave,
Pin 25 on a DB25 connector is used for no purpose other than testing. Accordingly, its probably safe simply because its highly unlikely that any connection to it would be made. The voltage for the RS232 control circuit is +3v to +25v for logic 1, notwithstanding that its generally around 9v to 13v, and although I've not done so, it should be safe to connect the control lines to pin 25 (but I'm not sure what protection this pin has), if for some reason pin 20 was not viable. Further, it should be safe to connect an external devices that uses RS232 protocal to it.

I've never heard of any equipement being damaged because of the voltage from pin 25, but it would be possible if the device couldn't tolerate that voltage level and there was a short to it, but no more so than being damaged by the voltage from pin 20, although, as stated before, pin 20's voltage is normally around 9v to 13v.

Regards,

Bill

Bill,

Thanks for clearing that up. I swear that I had read somewhere that voltage was limited to +5 / -5 V.

Ya learn something every day.

Dave

[fordav11]

TTL level voltages are +5V / -5V. not sure what level the RS232 is.
If TTL receives even 6V it'll usually fail. The TTL spec is 5.0V +- 10%
Most serial communication circuits have a chip that converts the voltage to TTL-level voltages for the general purpose 5V logic electronics (usually a MAX232 chip or similar)

[angelw]

TTL level voltages are +5V / -5V. not sure what level the RS232 is.
If TTL receives even 6V it'll usually fail. The TTL spec is 5.0V +- 10%
Most serial communication circuits have a chip that converts the voltage to TTL-level voltages for the general purpose 5V logic electronics (usually a MAX232 chip or similar)

The RS-232 standard defines the voltage levels that correspond to logical one and logical zero levels for the data transmission and the control signal lines. Valid signals are plus or minus 3 to 15 volts; the ±3 V range near zero volts is not a valid RS-232 level and is used to accomodate noise. The standard specifies a maximum open-circuit voltage of 25 volts: signal levels of ±5 V, ±10 V, ±12 V, and ±15 V are all commonly seen depending on the power supply available within a device. RS-232 drivers and receivers must be able to withstand indefinite short circuit to ground or to any voltage level up to ±25 volts. Accordingly the RS232 standard specifies -3V to -25V as logic 1 (Mark) and +3V to +25V as logic 0 (Space) for data, and -3V to -25V as logic 0 (Space) and +3V to +25V as logic 1 (Mark) for control.

As stated in my reply to Dave, although the standard indicates plus and minus 25V, you normally see it around the plus and minus 9V to 13V mark for the reasons explained above.

Regards,

Bill

[MysticMonkey]

Not all machines with Fanuc control are wired the same for RS232. Most are, but not all. This is why you really should have the manuals and read them.

Generally the only different configurations come from the MTB side where they decide to have a crossed pair or something silly like this. I.E. patch cable from Fanuc to the sheet metal.

100% of the standard D RS232 connectors I have seen on Fanuc have been the same cable configuration.

The only difference being the Fanucs using Honda plugs for comms.

[Dan Fritz]

Hi guys,

The +24v on pin 25 is for some of the Fanuc-made devices. Most of these devices were never sold in the US, but a few were. For example, Fanuc made an external hard-drive, a 3 1/2 inch floppy drive, and a bubble memory cassette. These devices used pin #25 for power so there was no need for a second cable. There are also some parameters in the CNC controls for "device type", which were used to send little prefix codes to these devices. Fanuc also has a remote RS232 paper tape reader, but I think it had an AC power cord for power.