[SurfRunner]

I have a TR 110 trunion on my Haas VF2 mill and am having a bit of problems.

After bringing axis "A" down to 90 degrees, we are drilling on the diameter with a 1/4 drill at 3800 RPM and 45.0 IPM into aluminum. We have a M10 in the block before we begin drilling to engage the brake. However, the drill still pushes the part downward. All workholding seems to be rigid.

Can anyone help me with this?

Thanks, Andrew

[txcncman]

Describe "pushes the part downward" a little better please.

[Delw]

slow the drill up to 15.0IPM, that seems a little fast for a drill with that low of rpm

the other thing to look at is how far on the side are you drilling, it is center line of the a axis or way out in the "Y"

I drill and ream 200+ holes a day 5 days a week 1/4" dia. I run 8500rpm at 15-20ipm my drills last approx 1 year

[haastec]

slow the drill up to 15.0IPM, that seems a little fast for a drill with that low of rpm

+1 45 IPM sounds to fast.

Also, can you describe how you are holding the part? Is there any kind of support while at the 90deg?

[Ydna]

It could be a carbide drill, although getting coolant down to the drill tip becomes the bottleneck of the process....

[cardenas770]

trayng to tap a m24x3 in a 6030 fadal it gets overload what can a do

[dcoupar]

trayng to tap a m24x3 in a 6030 fadal it gets overload what can a do

I would check the MOCON board for damaged components. If that's not it, check the Z-amp for a blown fuse. If that's not it, call your local HFO... oh, wait! This is a Fadal question in a Haas forum! Silly me.

First thing I would do would be to move this to the Fadal forum. The second thing would be to start your own thread rather than hijack an unrelated thread in an unrelated forum.

These things get so convoluted and watered down it's almost impossible to tell who's talking to who, and what's been solved and not solved.

Nuff rant.

[SurfRunner]

slow the drill up to 15.0IPM, that seems a little fast for a drill with that low of rpm

the other thing to look at is how far on the side are you drilling, it is center line of the a axis or way out in the "Y"

I drill and ream 200+ holes a day 5 days a week 1/4" dia. I run 8500rpm at 15-20ipm my drills last approx 1 year

Your right...I just recalculated my feed rate and came up with 15.0 IPM. Don't know how I missed that. Thanks!

[SurfRunner]

Describe "pushes the part downward" a little better please.

It is 3.00" round held in a chuck. It might be 4.00 long. It pushes the entire "A" axis downward. It seems it still should not do that even if it is feeding too fast.

[Delw]

so is it working now with the new feed rates?
thanks for coming back most people just do a drive by and leave everyone hanging.

when you say push down your talking about the axis actually rotating correct? if the part pushed DOWN and not rotated the a axis then you have a bad fixture or something is loose which has nothing to do with the a axis only how you hold the part.

Delw
.

[txcncman]

I do not know what the brake torque rating on your trunnion might be. I would suggest you find out and then test it. I am betting the brake mechanism itself is at fault and needs to be cleaned and/or adjusted.

[SurfRunner]

so is it working now with the new feed rates?
thanks for coming back most people just do a drive by and leave everyone hanging.

when you say push down your talking about the axis actually rotating correct? if the part pushed DOWN and not rotated the a axis then you have a bad fixture or something is loose which has nothing to do with the a axis only how you hold the part.

Delw
.

I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but I will let you know.

The entire axis rotates. I am guessing it pushes it down almost 5 deg. I do name an M10 in the block before the canned cycle. I am using standard canned cycles (G81 and G83). Perhaps the brake will not engage in standard canned cycles, but that doesn't make sense to me. However, it is still possible.

We engaged the brake (M10) through MDI and we can push it down with our hands fairly easily. It doesn't seem like we should be able to do this.

Thanks!

[SurfRunner]

I do not know what the brake torque rating on your trunnion might be. I would suggest you find out and then test it. I am betting the brake mechanism itself is at fault and needs to be cleaned and/or adjusted.

I am thinking the same thing.

[txcncman]

This is what I call "reality check" time, something I try to teach my students. In your experience, how much torque should a device such as this be able to handle? Get a long piece of round stock, maybe 36" long, 2" diameter. Put it in the chuck and tighten it down. Now, engage the M-code to lock/brake the trunnion and then by hand, try to force some movement. If you can apply enough force by hand to move the trunnion while it is in brake condition, I would think the brake is not doing its job. Now, think of how much torque this is in foot/pounds. You know the formula. Now, how much pressure does your drill need to drill aluminum (I am guessing about 20 pounds of thrust - look it up to be sure)? What is the distance of drilling from the center of rotation (pivot point)? Now, how much torque is the pressure of the drill generating? You know the formula. Do the numbers from the test and the calculation come close to matching? I bet they do. If they do, the "reality check" confirms the brake is not doing its job. The "reality check" in my world tells me a trunnion brake should hold over 100 ft/lbs torque. What does your "reality check" tell you?

[Geof]

.....We engaged the brake (M10) through MDI and we can push it down with our hands fairly easily. It doesn't seem like we should be able to do this.

Thanks!

No you shouldn't. The motor driving torque and brake holding torque for that trunnion is on the Haas website. I think driving is 40 lb-ft and holding is 65 lb-ft so moving it by hand suggests something is wrong.

[Delw]

On my 4th axis I dont have to engage the brake, once it quits rotating the brake is engaged. I have a 2009 one on a vf2ss
Canned cycles shouldnt disengage the brake at all.

does your machine have 4th axis on the machine itself or are you using a contol box? what year machine? do you have air hooked up to the 4th axis?
Ive taken some pretty big cuts on the 4th out on the sides of 6" ie 3" from center line and havent had mine move yet. also drilling 1/2" holes in CRS at 2.5" from Y centerline.

[Geof]

Here is something to try; watch the load on both the A and B axes while you are drilling. Also watch the axis position display. If either axis is moving the display will change and the motor load will increase as the servo tries to hold the axis in its programmed position.

If it moves without the displays changing or the motor load increasing then the either the movement is in your fixture or something is loose/broken.

[HuFlungDung]

What kind of gear train do these trunnions use? Are they not both worm drives? I cannot visualize backdriving a worm that is being held with a zero motion command, and not have an axis alarm raised in just a few hundredths of a degree, much less 5 degrees?

[Machineit]

What kind of gear train do these trunnions use? Are they not both worm drives? I cannot visualize backdriving a worm that is being held with a zero motion command, and not have an axis alarm raised in just a few hundredths of a degree, much less 5 degrees?

I'm glad you broached this, I do not understand how it could be moving at all. Neither axis should be able to move from external pressure like drilling. Something is wrong with the info here.

If your chuck is moving, how is it attached to the A axis.

Is this your trunnion?

[MKproto]

Make sure you bleed the Brake system for the table. Assuming it is like the one I just purchased. It is a little like bleeding brakes. I absolutely hate doing this every time, with my Hrt110 table as it is in and out of the machine every other day. Did not know that when I bought it, figured it would have been an air brake.