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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    325

    XYZ Gantry Build with Rotary Axis

    I’ve decided to go ahead and post a build log of this project.

    Yes, it is another XYZ Gantry Kit.
    Yes, it is another aluminum extrusion frame.
    But, it is going to have a fourth (rotary) axis AND I don’t know what the hell I’m doing so my struggles may prove interesting and I’m sure likely to need some advice along the way.

    A few things before we get started. I did do some design work in a 3d Cad package. I have never really used one before so there is quite a learning curve here. In the end the CAD design is rough. Knowing what I know now, if I had time to redesign it from scratch it would be much more complete and useful.

    I built an MDF design a couple of years ago using Rockliff plans. It used acme threaded rod, Delrin nuts and assorted styles of linear rails. It is a moving table design with a cutting area appox. 18 X 18. It actually worked (works) albeit with limitations due to parts selection and some alignment issues. Still, had a great time doing it and learned a bit.

    Anyhow, I’ve wanted to do a second machine for quite a while, always with the intent of including a rotary axis. When I started to seriously think about what to build I ran across the XYZ Gantry web site. Seemed like a good way to jumpstart the build by having all the mechanicals supplied in one package. I know this may not appeal to a lot of you as there is a lot to be said for picking your own components, assembled and designed to fit your exact requirements. But I am more interested in using it and not spending what would be for me, a long time struggling with the design (due to my limited knowledge) and the build (due to my very limited skills). I have never done any work in metal and all of my tools are woodworking tools.

    So here is a screen capture of what I’m shooting for from Alibre. It is NOT a fully fleshed out design. Its main purpose at the time was to be able to order my extrusions. The rotary axis design is really sketchy and subject to change (much more on that later).

    There is going to be a lot of bumps in this road but hopefully (with your help) it will eventually all work out.

    Thanks for reading and I am way open to suggestions/questions as I go so please feel free.

    BobL.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails AlibrePic.JPG  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    325

    What I’ve got…What I need

    I’ve got a lot of the components picked, ordered and in hand. But there is a lot I am lacking at this point. As much as I want this to be a quick build it will be going on for a while.

    What I have:

    Main mechanical components: Obviously the XYZ Gantry kit from PBC Linear. I ordered it with a 24” X 48” cutting area due to lack of space. I would have loved to have a 48” X 48”.

    Frame: I’m using Misumi 8 Series 4080 extrusions. Misumi is running a first time order special. You can get up to 150 dollars back on your first order. I think the way it works is they give you a credit 30 days after your first qualifying order. Hopefully I’ll ‘qualify’ and get that rebate.

    In fact, my orginal intent was to place my initial order and then get additional items I needed using the rebate. I spent so much time screwing around with the CAD program and debating part selection that I didn’t place my extrusion order until recently.

    Motors: The main build requires 3 Nema34 and 1 Nema23 motors. I ordered 3 640 oz/in motors from Keling and have a new 425 oz/in Nema 23 motor left over from my original build (a rotary that never happened).

    Drivers: I’ve got 4 Geko G213V’s

    Power Supply: I’ve got a 50 volt, 20 amp PS from Keling.

    Electronics: I’ve got PMDX-126 breakout board and a PMDX-134 board to plug the Gekos into.

    Spindle: My original plan was/is to use a PC 890 router with some precision collets controlled by a SuperPID speed controller. I have the SuperPID but have not purchased the PC 890.

    I did notice that the router bracket I ordered will also fit a Dewalt 618 (of which I have two). I ordered an extra sensor for the SuperPID but haven’t decided if I want to modify one of my 618’s or not. I really want to end up with the PC 890 but we’ll see.

    Rotary Axis: We will get into this in much more detail later, but for now I will say I have a new Phase II 6” rotary table I plan on adding one of the 425 oz /in motors from my current machine to. I’ve also got a ½” slab of 7075 aluminum and some used linear rails.

    What I need:
    More T-nuts for starters. I ordered two hundred pre-assembly economy T-nuts. Who knew they would go so fast.

    I’ve got the caster/leveler feet but need to fabricate a mounting plate to attach them to the frame. This is going to be interesting, my first foray into metal work.

    I have yet to design the layout for the electronics and have not ordered practically any support electronics as I don’t know what I need yet. This is going to delay the build considerably.

    The design of the rotary needs some serious thought.

    Pictures in the next post.

    BobL.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    325

    Where I'm at now

    I’ve got the frame loosely assembled. I need to make something to mount the casters to the frame with. As usual, I didn’t follow convention with my frame design. I’ve never worked with, (or even seen) a piece of extrusion so I went with what I felt would provide a strong frame. We’ll see how that works out.

    Anyhow, I need to make some plates. I have some ¼” 6061 I’m planning on using. I would like to see if my current machine can cut them.

    My current machine is using a dewalt trim router as a spindle. I’m hoping I can mill some aluminum with it. For that to have a chance to work I believe I need to get the SuperPID hooked up to it. Mounting the sensor is going to be a little tricky.

    So, I’ve got the frame loosely assembled. It is not squared. I need make a temporary case for the SuperPID and come up with a desing for the mounting plates for the casters. In the last pic the frame is sitting on some machinist jacks. I plan on leveling it and squaring it the best I can (somehow) and tighten it up.

    I need to get some Loctite. Hopefully I can get that in there without disassembly and then I’ll torque the whole frame down tight.

    BobL.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 100_0128sm.jpg   100_0130sm.jpg   100_0132sm.jpg   100_0135sm.jpg  

    100_0136sm.jpg   100_0138sm.jpg  

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    0
    Bob,

    Good start. I'm like you and had never used the 8020 but so glad i did. The frame went together well after I figured out how to do it and undoing a few steps. It is strong and makes for a nice clean design. I wanted something that would look as good as the machine itsef. Will be fun watching your build and do ask for help. Someone here will know the answer......

    Will

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    325
    Thanks Will.

    I'm counting on some help so hopefully it will be of enough interest to generate some comments from the guys on here who actually know what they're doing and they will step in if I'm headed for disaster

    BobL.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    398
    Bob,
    Thanks for the pictures.
    It looks like you have figured out Alibre rather quickly. :-)
    A couple of questions.
    What is your plan for the top?
    Are you going to make a section removable to cover over where the 4th axis goes or are you going to have the normal non 4th axis cutting envelope less that 24x48?

    Are you going to mount a tailstock for the 4th or is the plan to just do bowls mounted on the rotary ?

    It's a very cool idea and I am looking forward to watching the progress.
    I was expecting the 4th axis to be perpendicular to it's proposed location to allow for turning longer spindles.

    Dave

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    325
    Hey Dave,

    For the top. I plan to add some additional support ala Wills build.

    The plan is to have the router be able to align with the axis of rotation of the rotary axis.

    I would like the rotary table be able to come down out of the way if I need to make use of the full milling area. Having the rotary permantely mounted in the way I have it shown will severly limit my ability to turn spindles of any appreciable length. I have yet to figure out how I'm going to mount the tail stock (which I don't have yet, I would like for this to be adjustable too) or construct a bed for the tail stock to ride on (I was thinking a piece of extrusion). This bed would need to be able to be moved out of the way for bowl work.

    One wild idea would be to have the 1/2" aluminum plate the rotary assembly is mounted to to be able to pivot so you could turn some longer (but smaller diameter) spindles. I don't know how feasable this would be. Like I said, there is a lot to think about before I can begin assembling the rotary.

    I would like to find a way to permanently mount a digitizing probe to the Z axis too.

    BobL.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    325
    Quote Originally Posted by dfmiller View Post
    I was expecting the 4th axis to be perpendicular to it's proposed location to allow for turning longer spindles.

    Dave
    Dave, yeah, what I'm really after is this.

    I have a new wood lathe I haven't started seriously playing with yet. I have turned a few things but I'm the kind of guy that tends to charge into things from the deep end.

    What I really want to do is to be able to turn something on the Jet lathe. I can be as organic or geometric as I want.

    Then mount this on the rotary and probe an area or shape I want to CNC. Bring that point cloud into software, create a surface from it. I can then use that to add any design or feature or pattern I can come up with and port it back out the the CNC machine for cutting. At least I believe that is roughly what I need to do to have the flexiblility I want.

    I have been playing with inlaying crushed stone. There is some really cool stuff on the web.

    I want to be able to unscrew the chuck from my Jet, mount the piece, chuck and all to the rotary axis on the CNC.

    The chuck can also sit on the bed of the machine for carving inlays for stone on the face of a plate. Or carving into ... whatever.

    I can then go back to the Jet lathe for additional turning, finishing or what not.


    Does any of this make sense. Could be cool if I can pull all this off.

    We will see though

    BobL.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    398
    I definitely want to see pictures once you get that working. ;-)


    I like your approach. I am sure it would work.
    If I were going to do it I think I would look at making the center of the table parallel to the Rack and Pinion rails removable. The crosspieces are fairly deep in section. You have supports already on you base. Heck you might even be able to remove them totally in the middle or just put some spacers that bolt to the rails. Then have the table portion removable. That will give you max working length. Then have the rotary and tailstock removable. I might just make some spacer blocks to adjust the height of axis of rotation.

    We are talking about working on wood. Not making parts for NASA.



    Another option is to CNC your Jet lathe and put a spindle on it for the 4th axis. Once you are done this project you will be a true wizard and it wont take you long.

    Dave

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538
    What I really want to do is to be able to turn something on the Jet lathe. I can be as organic or geometric as I want.

    Then mount this on the rotary and probe an area or shape I want to CNC. Bring that point cloud into software, create a surface from it.
    A far simpler method would be to create the shape in CAD, and skip the probing - point cloud - convert to surface steps. Then let the machine do the whole thing in one shot.

    Lathed shapes are probably the easiest to model in CAD, as you just draw the profile and revolve it. And you'll be working with something far easier to deal with then something created from a point cloud.

    Unless of course, you don't know what shape you want until you start creating it at the lathe.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    325
    @ Gerry, thanks for stopping by. Yeah, I know that it would be far simpler to CAD the whole thing, but I really want to get into some woodturning. It has it's own challenges and rewards. I've seen some beautiful work with carvings/patterns/inlays etc.

    Of course this takes talent. That's the part I want to CNC (the talent part) while retaining the handwork on the lathe to satisfy my need to get intimate with the wood.

    Silly maybe, but that's what I'm after. Of course, I'm not saying that the rotary axis won't do a whole project by itself, but the fleixibily will be nice.

    @ Dave, Yeah, you're right. Defianately need more thought on the whole rotary axis setup. As it is I'm going to have to move the end XYZ crossbeam back (I believe) to make room for the rotary the way I have it depicted.

    I have some 4080 extrucion I'm going to use behind the rotary mounting plate to support the X axis extrusions.

    I did think just a little about creating an opening down the X axis, but went this way at the time because I felt I was already getting in a little deep considering at the time I was designing it I didn't have any clue what any of these parts looked like (the extrusions, the XYZ kit, etc.)


    Spent most of the day playing with the SuperPID. Pictures of that up next. I also had a friend stop by and am trying to talk him in to taking on the fabrication of the control box.

    Gonna get cleaned up and get something to eat. When I get time I'll post what I'm doing with the SuperPID.

    BobL.

  12. #12
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    Jan 2007
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    Dave, here's what I have drawn up for the support on the rotary end.

    BobL.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 4080_support.JPG  

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    325
    So I am doing prep work to get ready to try some very simple milling of aluminum on my MDF machine.

    I purchased a SuperPID router speed controller for the new machine but needed to throw together something temporary to hook it up to the laminate trimmer in my current machine.

    So I made a simple box.

    I used a USB cable for the 5 volts to drive the SuperPID.

    A friend all but finished a mounting bracket for the sensor. It's going to be a tight fit, but should work.

    I pluggesd the USB cable (only) in and the board powered up good.

    I then plugged in the AC supply and the router. I could control router from the switch on the S-Pid box.

    The S-Pid did not sense the router started and cycled the power from slow to fast. I'm hoping this is just because I did not have the sensor hooked up.

    I shined a flashlight on the sensor and could see the bar indicator seeing the change it appears the sensor is hooked up correctly to the S-Pid, I just need to get it temporarily mounted to the router now.

    Oh yeah, in the last picture you can see what I did for a heat sink. THEN I read in the manual if you can touch it, it should be insulated. I am planning on mounting the box on the wall, but I supose I could tape is for extra safety.

    It's only temporary and will be discarded when my new build is complete.

    Anyhow, that's where I stand.

    I REALLY need to sketch out what I need in and out of the control box so I can create a wiring diagram and order what parts I don't know I need yet

    BobL.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 100_0139sm.jpg   100_0140sm.jpg   100_0141sm.jpg   100_0145sm.jpg  

    100_0144sm.jpg  

  14. #14
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    Jan 2005
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    398
    Bob,
    I expect the heat sink may be at line potential. You did tell me you like curly hair. ;-)

    Nice enclosure.

    The great think about the extrusion is that you can take it apart and try different configurations. If your stuff is like the 80/20 you don't need to Locktite the fasteners. If you torque then down they are self locking.


    Thanks for the details on the rotary. I look forward to watching it unfold.


    Dave

  15. #15
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    Jan 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfmiller View Post
    Bob,
    I expect the heat sink may be at line potential. You did tell me you like curly hair. ;-)
    I will be sure to check that out !!

    Quote Originally Posted by dfmiller View Post
    Bob,
    If your stuff is like the 80/20 you don't need to Locktite the fasteners. If you torque then down they are self locking.

    Dave
    I know what your talking about with the 80/20 stuff. I don't know that the Misumi stuff has that configuration inside the slots or not.

    I did notice when I scanned the XYZ doc that they recommend using loctite?

    Anhow, thanks.

    BobL.

  16. #16
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    Jan 2005
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    Bob,
    I read that was on all the stuff that was not 80/20.
    There are lots of bolts in the rest of it. Ask me I know ;-)
    Dave

  17. #17
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    Jan 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfmiller View Post
    Bob,
    I expect the heat sink may be at line potential. You did tell me you like curly hair. ;-)

    Dave
    Ok, I thought I remembered reading some additional info on this besides what the manual says so I went back and scanned the SuperPID thread (man that thing is huge).

    I found the entry I remember HERE.

    Here's an excerpt (posted by RomanLini):

    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Also, as P.Passuello says, normally the heatsink of the SuperPID should be insulated (ie so people can never touch it). Technically it is safe as it is insulated from the TRIAC device in the SuperPID.

    However (and this is an important safety issue) if the TRIAC device was to fail in some catastrophic burnt-out fashion, it may be possible for the heatsink to become live (and dangerous) after that fault. I would suggest either using an insulated cover over the heatsink so it can never be touched, or an alternative would be to ground the heatsink to your mains ground which I can see you have available only a few inches away. My preference of the 2 choices would be to keep the heatsink covered and insulated.

    Peter.Passuello- Thank you for spotting the safety issue and discussing it.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Truth be told, at first I wasn't even going to add a heat sink. I figured that the small aluminum tab might be enough considering I was only running a laminate trimmer. And I figured I could read it's temp through the clear cover using and IR thermometer.

    So, I'm going to leave the external heatsink on, cover it with duct tape. I'm going to mount it to the side of the fixed gantry on my MDF machine. I'll still aim the thermometer at it to see what it's doing just out of curiosity.

    Ok then, back at it.

    BobL.

  18. #18
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    Jan 2005
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    So what is the electrical insulating properties of Duct tape?
    I know the old black cloth electrical tape was 600V per wrap and I think any UL/ CSA rated electrical tape is similar.
    Can't vouch for Duct tape.

    Sorry for being so Anal about it. I guess growing up with my Dad who was a EE for the Provincial Electrical Utility rubbed off some. ;-)

    Dave

  19. #19
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    Jan 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfmiller View Post
    So what is the electrical insulating properties of Duct tape?
    I know the old black cloth electrical tape was 600V per wrap and I think any UL/ CSA rated electrical tape is similar.
    Can't vouch for Duct tape.

    Sorry for being so Anal about it. I guess growing up with my Dad who was a EE for the Provincial Electrical Utility rubbed off some. ;-)

    Dave
    Dave, I understand your concern and know you live the talk, no problems there. And I will conceed your point about not knowing the insulating properties of the tape I used (I actually used 3 layers of some vynyl tape I had laying around from somewhere).

    But that being said, I am going to go with it.

    The way I see it is there is such an unlikely sequence of events that would have to happen, and it would have to happen during the time the system is powered up, that I find the risk acceptable. This is especially true considering the process involved when I will be using this machine, which from here on in will ONLY be to cut parts for the new one. And I am the only one who will be around when I'm operating it.

    So, cheers Dave, I appreciate the advice and have a beer on me my friend :cheers:

    BobL.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    5728

    It seems from your drawing

    that the spindle only reaches to the mid-point of the rotary axis. Having done a bit of this sort of work, I'd suggest you design it to reach the far edge of whatever the largest workpiece is that will fit in the rotary axis space. It's a lot quicker to rough something out of a rectangular piece of stock if you can get all the way around it, then rotate it 180 degrees and cut the other side. After that, you can usually run a finish pass with the Y axis fixed at the center of the rotary axis, but not always - it's good to be able to do the whole part in indexing mode.

    Andrew Werby
    ComputerSculpture.com — Home Page for Discount Hardware & Software

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