[kono0014]

New to this forum. Man there is a lot of information here. About to purchase my first CNC machine and was pretty sure I was going with the Romaxx WD-1. Ron seems like a great guy and the machine seems like a pretty good deal for what you get. I was looking on Laguna's website at power feeders and saw the CNC link to their products and thought I would check it out. I was kind of impressed with the IQ Pro. The problem is I can't find a single post with someone that has one and really there is limited information on the Romaxx machines. A few consistent and happy posters that have them but not a huge customer base.

Is the liquid cooled spindle and controller on the Laguna worth it or kind of a gimick? It seems like it would be nice to upload a program from a USB/SD flash drive so that a computer doesn't need to be hooked up. Will I miss out on not having the Mach 3 controller. The liquid cooled spindle seems like a good idea too since these smaller machines may need to move slower and run for extended periods of time.

In the end I am pretty set on the Romaxx machine because I am set on supporting a US company that focuses on quality. Not to say that Laguna doesn't make a quality machine but I need to learn more about what they mean when they say "Designed, developed and assembled in the USA". Anyone can buy Asian parts and say that.

Any information would be much appreciated!! This forum is top notch by the way! Thanks in advance. Mike

[cabnet636]

there is nothing designed nor built about the laguna machine in the us,, it is the standard jinhan 1325 machine which is commonly discussed under the excitech, camwood, or chinese routers in the forums above this one. i have seen the laguna first hand and they have spec'ed it painted pretty nice yet i am no fan of the water cooled spindle,, it is only as good as a fish tank pump for coolant and i have several friends who have burnt them up,, if you go this route get the hsd or columbo air cooled spindle. the machine is capable yet there are us machines in good quality and price point to compete

[tusong200]

the machine is capable yet there are us machines in good quality and price point to compete

Names of machines please!! $5K for 2' x 3' working surface with 2 HP spindle seems like a pretty good deal for something that's not a kit. Itching to purchase.

[cabnet636]

well ther is the CAMaster stinger, little bit more money lot more machine

Home of the Stinger Table Top CNC Router

you can add the rotary, comes with wincnc industrial controller. and a lot of training and support on the forum

CAMheads CNC Router Forum By: CAMaster CNC

[CNCforfun]

well ther is the CAMaster stinger, little bit more money lot more machine

Home of the Stinger Table Top CNC Router

you can add the rotary, comes with wincnc industrial controller. and a lot of training and support on the forum

CAMheads CNC Router Forum By: CAMaster CNC

I do not believe it is a lot more machine for the money. Nor are the machines you are pushing are made in the USA. Just posting your BS again.
I think the best you will find is Xzero cnc routers.

[cabnet636]

I do not believe it is a lot more machine for the money. Nor are the machines you are pushing are made in the USA. Just posting your BS again.
I think the best you will find is Xzero cnc routers.

the new member (tusong) to cnc zone asked a specific question to me personally, i answered it honestly from an actual experience with out any personal attack, this is a great forum for many a end user of cnc and has a decorum for use without threat or personal attacks,

not sure of what the mods feel about trolling and the baiting for an argument yet i will state some facts here.

tusongs questions specifically asked andout turnkey machines. and specifically not a kit of which one may have to wait 7,8,9,10 + months to begin to get commonly available parts. although i will say that while the parts you mention appear to be of good quality there are many a good kit company in the market whit reputable delivery times

the camaster cnc company is located in Cartersville GA, USA. where all the machines are built and shipped from. it has been in business quite a while with a large following of actual owners who use these machines and attend many cnc functions around the US, including the IWF, AWFS and vectric user groups meetings and conventions. the machine is well known and supported by decent, honest and hard working fellows whose reputations come from fabricating, operation of cnc machines for a lot of years with well known companys.

that the poster (cnc for fun) and i have never had any direct conversation about cnc machines in any form other than what appears to be some form of baiting by him for a generic argument. i read thru the post by this fellow and it appears that a cnc machine is not owned by him.

tusong, i welcome you to the zone, i have owned 6 cnc machines, three of which have been and are camasters, one is a digital cnc one is a older warthog and one was the 6090 chinese machine (predecessor to the icarve laguna machine) it will do the job. i am partial to the camaster i use them in business. i do moderat thier forum and host a vectric/cnc user group each year in support of many cnc machine owners of all types, recently we used the stinger to fabricate a large volume of solid surface tops at an amazon.com distrubtion facility here in my home state. it is an excellent machine that gets the job done with a few added benefits like good delivery, well supported end user community and no shortage of cnc machining features. i have said often it may not be the biggest it may not be the best, yet it is not second best to any other

Sustainability: A Route to Lean Manufacturing

[tusong200]

.....one was the 6090 chinese machine (predecessor to the icarve laguna machine)[/B]

Sustainability: A Route to Lean Manufacturing

??Predecessor to "icarve" Laguna?? I've seen the icarver (GeneralCNC) and it's nowhere near the machine that the "IQ" Laguna seems to be, though I've not seen the IQ in person. (The icarver seems fine for what it is but too small and underpowered IMHO.) That's why I'm interested in the IQ. I've seen one of the Laguna CNC Turners in action and for 10K it seems like a really good value. Uses the same spindle and controller that the IQ has.

I went to the Stinger site. Looks very substantial, but the only pricing I could find on the site was for the base machine at 7K. I've got to have a spindle so I'd assume another 1K for that. It seems that the T-slot table is also an upgrade so I'm over 8K.

You're right that I defintely want turnkey. I've got way too many plates on my table as it is, no time to waste. If you're curious.... GoldBug Products Guitar Parts

I've talked to Laguna and they are currently sold out of the IQ routers so I'd love to hear from anyone who has bought one or seen one run??

Thanks for your help.....S

[CNCforfun]

the new member (tusong) to cnc zone asked a specific question to me personally, i answered it honestly from an actual experience with out any personal attack, this is a great forum for many a end user of cnc and has a decorum for use without threat or personal attacks,

not sure of what the mods feel about trolling and the baiting for an argument yet i will state some facts here.

tusongs questions specifically asked andout turnkey machines. and specifically not a kit of which one may have to wait 7,8,9,10 + months to begin to get commonly available parts. although i will say that while the parts you mention appear to be of good quality there are many a good kit company in the market whit reputable delivery times

the camaster cnc company is located in Cartersville GA, USA. where all the machines are built and shipped from. it has been in business quite a while with a large following of actual owners who use these machines and attend many cnc functions around the US, including the IWF, AWFS and vectric user groups meetings and conventions. the machine is well known and supported by decent, honest and hard working fellows whose reputations come from fabricating, operation of cnc machines for a lot of years with well known companys.

that the poster (cnc for fun) and i have never had any direct conversation about cnc machines in any form other than what appears to be some form of baiting by him for a generic argument. i read thru the post by this fellow and it appears that a cnc machine is not owned by him.

tusong, i welcome you to the zone, i have owned 6 cnc machines, three of which have been and are camasters, one is a digital cnc one is a older warthog and one was the 6090 chinese machine (predecessor to the icarve laguna machine) it will do the job. i am partial to the camaster i use them in business. i do moderat thier forum and host a vectric/cnc user group each year in support of many cnc machine owners of all types, recently we used the stinger to fabricate a large volume of solid surface tops at an amazon.com distrubtion facility here in my home state. it is an excellent machine that gets the job done with a few added benefits like good delivery, well supported end user community and no shortage of cnc machining features. i have said often it may not be the biggest it may not be the best, yet it is not second best to any other

Sustainability: A Route to Lean Manufacturing

Like I told you before , I have never seen anyome like you. Telling people your a happy user meanwhile you sell them. Total BS. I never seen anyone that sits around trying to destroy a company like you do with xzero. I lnow I read a post where guy waited 7 months for a camaster machine. I could post that. But I don't have a problem with camaster. Just you. I have just never seen anyone like you. Read on this thread how you treat people after the have machine
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/xzero_...o_cnc-149.html

[cabnet636]

tusong, you are right the i carver (general ) is a smaller machine, the table top that laguna is reselling is the same one i had, it is known as the jinhan tabletop 6090 (600mm x 900 mm) and is one of the better ones from these factorys. i do not sell camasters so i am not up on the pricing structure, yet you are welcome to join the camheads forum and find out for your self, camaster provides cnc machines for the fender guitar company, and my friend Brandon Mcdougal makes his violins on a carveright (rhino software)

Guitars

i have said many times i consider the best woodworkers those who can make wood sing and that is some good looking stuff on your site,, you are gonna want a 4' machine !!!!

the 6090 machine are available from several sources, good luck in your pursuit i am impressed with your website, when you get ready let me know as i have all the files for a lot of the classic and solid body guitars!

[tusong200]

..... good luck in your pursuit i am impressed with your website, when you get ready let me know as i have all the files for a lot of the classic and solid body guitars!

Sounds good, I'll keep in touch. Thanks!!

[Doug Kramer]

Like I told you before , I have never seen anyome like you. Telling people your a happy user meanwhile you sell them. Total BS. I never seen anyone that sits around trying to destroy a company like you do with xzero. I lnow I read a post where guy waited 7 months for a camaster machine. I could post that. But I don't have a problem with camaster. Just you. I have just never seen anyone like you. Read on this thread how you treat people after the have machine
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/xzero_...o_cnc-149.html

Having wrote that, I should add some follow up.
I won't modify or take back anything I said. Its how I felt at the time, I'm not a big fan of editing. Once spoken, words cannot be taken back ,,, And once written, the words are there for good, as far as I'm concerned.
I will say this - I over reacted. I'm a hot head, when I start seeing red, I can't stop myself. Jim I think is a bit the same way, hes got a temper. And when 2 guys like us start butting heads, sparks will fly.
Looking back, he would have been justified for banning me at Cam, even tho I never bad mouthed the company itself. I was practically daring him to, he never did.
So he showed some restraint that I myself probably would have been lacking, if our positions were reversed. Jim helped me out on my very first cut over the phone, and hes helped countless others, day and night.
The guy breathes CNC and has probably forgotten more than alot of us will ever know. He can be a liability at times, and yeah, aggravating. I reckon we all can be.
Hes a character, and over all, very much as asset to the CNC community.
The service at CAM is 2nd to none, and though I bumped heads with him over a nagging technical issue that morphed into what I wrote a couple weeks back, I'd be a liar if I said Jim wasn't a large part of that helpful service.
Bottom line here is, facts speak for themselves ,,, And Jim could easily line up 2 dozen guys to testify that he personally and effectively helped them. Probably not many of us that could say the same.

Having said all that, I haven't had the time to read through this thread to find out what your issue is with Jim. He is an aggressive promoter of Cam machines, he believes in them very strongly ,,, But I wouldn't agree if he was mocking or belittling another machine without warrant, and doesn't sound like something he'd do.
Slamming other machines & manufacturers is frowned upon at the Cam forum, probably even not allowed ,,, Wouldn't seem right to do it here either.

[CNCforfun]

IF you didn't post about it you still be in the same spot as before you posted it. Some people have to read it the way you posted it. Email don't always get seen the way you want them to.

[victorofga]

somehow everyone see rigth from their viewpoint..
there are some fact we cant ignore..

cnc routers this time on a beginning, like cars were in the 30s aproximately.. with this example i just try to say, routers need to be produced like cars..
you cant keep quality on affordable price with invidual products..

and those manufacturers will win, who first can setup a massproduction..

viewing of this viewpoint, chinese this moment is ahead.. the many different seller about lookalike same machine, that is the proof, that companies in china producing same sideplates and same parts... and somehow those parts assemblebd on different places..

with amn example, if a part invidually made, there need 4-5 migthbe more setup... if it is a series, then can be applied machines, example drill on position 10-20 holes about 10 second, and parts can be changed les than 1 min...
same parts can take invidually made, hour...
this also explain how they can sell cheaper, even with import..

the second issue is the customer... if you have a well running bussiness, this time you can payoff easily in a few month an expenses router...

without bussiness, even a cheap chinese router can be very costly..

so hopefully, some promising companies, like camaster and shopbot can growing up more, with a real massproducing, what will eliminate the option to buying cheaper stuff from abroad..
from here very hard to say anything... massproducing doesnt mean to making 40-50 router a year..

staying at this example, to keeping a level of quality, for a price, only masproduction can ensure..
imagine if cars would be made without known assemblyplants... they would be priced that most people could not afford...

also endusers need to grow up for this tech.. and using routers in more area..

so by time it will work better..

[Doug Kramer]

I agree with your main logic victor, but you must not overlook the main reason why Asia can sell things so much cheaper, and that is near slave labor wages. They have not come to an advantage over our production due to high efficiency, better methods ect.
We are the ones who invented mass production, Chinese copied it. But their main advantage, in the end, is very low production costs due to low wages, and often times to using shoddy materiel and construction.
Although quality in some areas is improving, "Made in China" to many is just a synonym for "pure junk".

[Laguna CNC]

We have the IQ in stock so if you are still in the market for a GREAT table top CNC! I would definitely go with the IQ Pro with the B&R LCD touch screen! There is no other table top CNC that compares!

[Laguna CNC]

Or you can request some free DVD's at Laguna CNC Info Request

[LazyMan]

The Laguna IQ may be appealing because its Turnkey, backed by good company. I am not trying to put down the machine as it is certainly a big step above the plastic CNC Shark HD selling for a ridiculous $4000. However, if you purchase it, don't think for one minute that you are purchasing quality. What you are purchasing is a very cheap machine backed by a reputable company. I do question their integrity considering they blatantly lie to your face about how they designed the machine when they pretty much painted their logo on it. I would love to know the name of the "German" company supplying their precision ground ball screws too...

Here is an example of the prices of machines from china. This is a 48x71 600kg (1320lb) machine selling for $4500 including shipping. The shipping is around $800 for something that size and weight. That means that the machine actually costs $3700. I don't know what their profit margins are but if it is anywhere near 50% then that is one dirt cheap machine. Just add up the cost of steel to build a frame alone like that in the US and you will see that its not just cheap labor, it's cheap materials.

48x71"cnc Router cutter Engraver Machine On Sale for Chinese Spring Festival | eBay

Here is a 24x36 selling for $2800 including shipping. $3400 with Vcarve to make it fair. This machine has a welded steel table and is very similar to the 24x36 "swift" Laguna was selling at first for $8000

24x36"(600x900mm)CNC Router Cutter machine On Sale for Spring Festival Holiday | eBay

[JakeStew]

We have the IQ in stock so if you are still in the market for a GREAT table top CNC! I would definitely go with the IQ Pro with the B&R LCD touch screen! There is no other table top CNC that compares!

I would avoid the B&R controller like the plague! It's extremely buggy.

I actually have yet to find anything that it actually does correctly. Coordinate display errors, positioning errors, interpolation errors, tool length errors, etc., etc..

Combine that with a ridiculously clumsy interface and you have a real stinker of a controller.

I'd say it's at LEAST 6 months away from what I'd consider a rough beta stage. Given that they've been selling this controller for quite awhile now I would not hold out much hope that it will be production ready any time soon.

[daniellyall]

one of there machines is the same as the one I got from china it was a piece of **** when first got it $4000 later almost got it working properly had to replace all steppers they where miss labelled they where meant to be 800oz/in they where only 400oz/in, replaced with 1200oz/in steppers. all drive and power supply's blew up as soon as it was turned on. had to replace all of the machine electronics, wiring, the only thing left is the frame, spindle, r an p and rails.
if they rebuild them there may be nothing wrong with them other than what's been said about the controller an axe can fix that.
the question is what's not made in Asia on anything you by.
there is some really good Asian company not that many. the Asian company's that I deal with seem to be run all by young blocks that do some good work they cost a little bit more than the ruff outfits but still cant compare costs with local manufactures other that the ones the PLA own.

so buy local if you can or go look at the machine running cant be any bull ****e that way

ps sorry for rude words

[daniellyall]

also the machine they have that's the same as mine is 5000 more than I pad what's still cheap