[magudaman]

I can't seem to find the prices for IH manual mills on their site, any idea of the manual mill cost for the one in the photo. There a potential CNC conversion machine in my area and it looks like their latest manual mills, running servo motors, etc. no idea what its worth.

[Cruiser]

If it is a newer turn key then it would be worth 10k / 12k. If any tooling with it add more.

[DarkStarMedia]

They took down their prices a while ago... but thanks to the wayback machine...

Square Column Bed Mill

as of jan 30th of this year he was chargine $2400for the mill and $400 for the NT30 spindle.

Richard

[magudaman]

They took down their prices a while ago... but thanks to the wayback machine...

Square Column Bed Mill

as of jan 30th of this year he was chargine $2400for the mill and $400 for the NT30 spindle.

Richard

Thank you, exactly what I was looking for. The machine isn't turn key but his own conversion. Pegs out at 65 IPM with servo drivers for $6500. Not much of a deal it seems. Thank you again!

[ninefinger]

Not much of a deal it seems. Thank you again!

I guess it depends on what you consider a deal? Sounds like he's asking for about what he has in it in cost for the mill and conversion. Any software or PC included? Any tooling?

BTW the 65 IPM is probably just a PC problem - most any servo can go much more than that (unless he did skimp and is running the original lead screws...)

Mike

[Krenovian]

I can't seem to find the prices for IH manual mills on their site, any idea of the manual mill cost for the one in the photo. There a potential CNC conversion machine in my area and it looks like their latest manual mills, running servo motors, etc. no idea what its worth.

I just queried IH this morning concerning their current price list. Below is their reply:

Currently, our website is under construction, we apologize for any
inconvenience this may cause. At the moment we are out of machines due to
the high volume of orders we have received and the remolding of our machines
to incorporate additional ribbing and support in key areas. It will also
increase the weight to 1100 pounds. Estimated arrival for the machines is
late November. Other services that we offer are financing. If you are
interested in financing one of our machines we will be more than happy to
set you up with our financing agent(Marlin Business Services, Marlin Leasing, and Marlin Business Bank Provide Equipment Financing to Small Businesses.). Prices for the
mills are as follows:

Manual Milling Machine $2700
Manual w/DRO and Powerfeed $4900
Manual w/DRO and Powerfeed $4500
Manual w/DRO and Powerfeed $4200
Turnkey CNC Mill $12,500(includes 3HP Motor, VFD, Table Extensions, upgraded
ballscrews and ballnuts and upgraded servos and quick disconnect cabinet and
computer and monitor.)
3HP Motor upgrade includes motor and VFD $850(pricing for higher motor)
NT30 Spindle $400
CNC Conversion Kit $5500


Other products provided by us will be priced upon request. If you would like
a shipping quote please provide us with a shipping address. If you have any
more questions regarding our products and services please feel free to call
or email. Phone calls can be made up to 1am EST. We will be more than happy
to answer any questions you may have.

Thank you,

Tommy Spada
IHCNC
860-832-8285
860-538-4397 Cell


Hope this helps.

Curtis

[Cruiser]

I'm sure the added Iron content will be greatly useful in the rigitiy of key areas. I for one am glad to hear this. Slight increase of cost for a better machine ? Hey, it is what we have been asking for ! Right ? And, If it is a precision ground ball screw rather than the rolled screw, I'm all for it as well !
Tommy is taking IH to a new level !
I wish I had the funds to upgrade to a new turn key !
If he gets them to increase the QC and clean the innards before Assy TOO !
AWSSOME

[DarkStarMedia]

I'm sure the added Iron content will be greatly useful in the rigitiy of key areas. I for one am glad to hear this. Slight increase of cost for a better machine ? Hey, it is what we have been asking for ! Right ? And, If it is a precision ground ball screw rather than the rolled screw, I'm all for it as well !
Tommy is taking IH to a new level !
I wish I had the funds to upgrade to a new turn key !
If he gets them to increase the QC and clean the innards before Assy TOO !
AWSSOME

So... some of the faults I can see on his setup are as follows (based on my research):

the use of rolled ballscrews
leaving one end of the ball screw unsupported in any way
using smaller servos and high belt ratios (I think he uses 4:1)

Also, when you consider that I can have an IH clone shipped to my doorstep for $2700 out the door and with the recent customer service issues... I wonder...

I would like to see more detail on the upgrades that make it worth the additional money.

Other complaints I have WRT pricing is that the NT30 spindle is a $400 up-charge where I can get the same one from MTW for $99. Based on everything I see they are from the exact same source.

I have been holding out on a purchase for a while to see what MTW comes up with on their turn key (no quill, linear ways).

I really want to buy from IH but when I add everything up the MTW comes in a lot cheaper (just the price difference in the spindle pays for most of the shipping).

I will hold out for more news about the new mill from IH for a while and hope that they will revise some of their pricing.

Richard

[Cruiser]

DarkStar,
There was nothing wrong with the rolled screw, other than it was a tiny bit noisy. It is just that a ground screw will by quieter, and smoother. As for the floating end, it is a non issue, It is rigid enough to be just fine, it doesn't rotate fast enough to be a problem.
The servos and ratio used was a calculated plan that worked great ! Having a resolution of .0002" and enough torque to snap tools and push parts out from under clamps.
The clone does not even come close to the IH ! and that is a fact ! They look similar and that is about all !
AND
I can have a truck load of bull crap delivered to my door for free ! Nya nya nya nya !
I looked at the clones, The amount of work needed to make them into something I would want is enough to buy two IH's
What with all the hub bub by the few disgruntled, I can see where you come from. Ever notice that there is very little said by the ones that are happy and producing miricles in their shops ? I'd have to guess that there are hundreds of US !
I hope that you do wait and jump on a new and improoved IH turn key ! Maybe you will be one of the few that will return here and BRAG & GIGGLE ! I'd really like to see that !
Have a good day

[DarkStarMedia]

DarkStar,
There was nothing wrong with the rolled screw, other than it was a tiny bit noisy. It is just that a ground screw will by quieter, and smoother. As for the floating end, it is a non issue, It is rigid enough to be just fine, it doesn't rotate fast enough to be a problem.
The servos and ratio used was a calculated plan that worked great ! Having a resolution of .0002" and enough torque to snap tools and push parts out from under clamps.
The clone does not even come close to the IH ! and that is a fact ! They look similar and that is about all !
AND
I can have a truck load of bull crap delivered to my door for free ! Nya nya nya nya !
I looked at the clones, The amount of work needed to make them into something I would want is enough to buy two IH's
What with all the hub bub by the few disgruntled, I can see where you come from. Ever notice that there is very little said by the ones that are happy and producing miricles in their shops ? I'd have to guess that there are hundreds of US !
I hope that you do wait and jump on a new and improoved IH turn key ! Maybe you will be one of the few that will return here and BRAG & GIGGLE ! I'd really like to see that !
Have a good day

I fully intent to wait a while... at least till November to give him a chance.

I would like more detail on which ballscrew setup he is using. Is he using a double ballnut preload? what is the stated positional accuracy of the screws he is using? What size ballscrew (dia)?

having a resolution of .0002 is great but if your ballscrews are only accurate within .003-.004 in 12 inches.... than your resolution doesn't matter.

I would also like to see a version with larger servos and something closer to 2.5:1 belt ratio to get rapids closer to 200-300ipm (particularly in the Z for quick tool change with an umbrella ATC).

As I said earlier I do want to purchase from IH but it has to make financial sense. I will defiantly be going with a 30 taper spindle and that $300 is a large difference for the same part.

After I get it I would likely upgrade the spindle bearings right up front so that the spindle can go to 6-7k rpm in grease. Also, I would defiantly gut the gearbox to go with a belt drive and fix the quill. If he offers upgrade kits that would defiantly push me closer in his direction.

I think he would also get a larger number of sales if he offered a cnc prep kit. Something that includes mounts, switches, and hardware but not the servos, ballscrews, and controls for those of us that would like to use different parts.

Again, I want to be clear that I am not bashing IH at all... I prefer them as an American company, one that has been around for a long while, and a supporter of this forum. I want to give every possible chance to IH to clarify and win my business... but in the same sense ... business is business... and I need to get the most out of my dollar.

Richard

EDT: I just checked the Rockford Ballscrew site and their high end precision ballscrews have a lead error as low as .003 and their best matched ballnuts can have a "...backlash to as little as .001 inches".

[Runner4404spd]

when you buy the $400 upgraded spindle from IH my understanding is that its already installed with ac bearings vs the tapered rollers so you don't have to pull it back apart and redo it.

also there is no financial sense to sell a partial kit as it adds alot of complexity to the parts inventory and really won't be any bang for the buck and most likely just cause more grief. there is a reason you can;t by a mazak in kit form.

also i believe a one shot oiler is necessary and the new mill comes standard with it. when i bought mine my oiler kit was $600 alone without installing it. 200-300 ipm rapids would be nice. i would really like to get that out of my mill but for prototyping you don't need it. again you could buy a haas mini mill for about 40k and then you have everything you want.

[DarkStarMedia]

when you buy the $400 upgraded spindle from IH my understanding is that its already installed with ac bearings vs the tapered rollers so you don't have to pull it back apart and redo it.

also there is no financial sense to sell a partial kit as it adds alot of complexity to the parts inventory and really won't be any bang for the buck and most likely just cause more grief. there is a reason you can;t by a mazak in kit form.

also i believe a one shot oiler is necessary and the new mill comes standard with it. when i bought mine my oiler kit was $600 alone without installing it. 200-300 ipm rapids would be nice. i would really like to get that out of my mill but for prototyping you don't need it. again you could buy a haas mini mill for about 40k and then you have everything you want.

I agree on the one shot oiler... that is a fantastic addition on IHCNC's product line... I wonder if that upgrade is available on the manual mills?

And, Haas and other larger machines are not a possibility for me at this time due to their size (low ceilings).

Richard

[ninefinger]

The clone does not even come close to the IH ! and that is a fact ! They look similar and that is about all !
AND
I can have a truck load of bull crap delivered to my door for free ! Nya nya nya nya !
I looked at the clones, The amount of work needed to make them into something I would want is enough to buy two IH's

Care to elaborate on what the differences are between an IH manual mill bought in the last 2 years and a clone are? I know the defects I found in mine are the same that others in this forum have found in their IH brand mills so please enlighten me as to what other defects I have yet to find.

Mike

[arvidj]

Care to elaborate on what the differences are between an IH manual mill bought in the last 2 years and a clone are? I know the defects I found in mine are the same that others in this forum have found in their IH brand mills so please enlighten me as to what other defects I have yet to find.

Mike

Yes, I would also like to know what the differences are. I have permission from SWMBO to order either the IH or the clone manual mill and knowing what the real differences are would influence the decision.

Of course not knowing the details of the new, improved, out in late November IH may make the information moot it would still be good to know.

Thanks for the education.

[brt]

Yes, I would also like to know what the differences are. I have permission from SWMBO to order either the IH or the clone manual mill and knowing what the real differences are would influence the decision.

Of course not knowing the details of the new, improved, out in late November IH may make the information moot it would still be good to know.

Thanks for the education.

@arvidj: When I was deciding which one to buy (MTW or genuine IH), I talked to both. For a couple of hours. I then drove to see Tommy & Co in person (I live in central NJ, 2.75 hours away). We spent almost 3 hours talking over the fine points. From there, my decision to go w/ IH was easy. My mill should be here shortly. I'll let you know how it goes.

[808welder]

There is a fix to support the end of the x ball screw only. bore out the original lead screw support, insert a sealed bearing and machine the end of the ball screw to accept the bearing

[RustedOut]

Originally I had intended to modify my old end support as well, but by the time I got the X axis screw and nut in place, then the X axis spacer block to give me back my X travel lost from the motor plate, there isn't enough screw to worry about. Besides the support got in the way of my one shot oiler lines, so it ended up in the spare parts box.

And like Cruiser mentioned, it doesn't turn fast enough to worry about. It's been completely out of my mind since I got the spacer block installed, long ago.

Far as screw pitch error, there's a function in Mach to map the screw error and correct for it, so I wouldn't worry there either. Don't know if there is enough total travel to reach 300 ipm rapids. I've gotten just over 130 ipm out of mine a few times where the rapid travel was mostly in X and may have been able to get more. But my motor tuning may be the limiting factor there, don't really know. Mostly my parts are made in a vise, so there's just no travel room for that fast of rapids. My tool change position is only a few inches up and over.

Far as I know, there aren't any CNC conversion parts offered for the IH clone from MTW. Tommy got them beat there with his kit. The IH motor plates do match the NEMA 34 bolt patterns, so going with a larger, out of the box, NEMA motor is possible. That's what I did on mine.

Personally, I'm real pleased to hear of the upcoming changes to IH's product line and web site.

Bob

[DarkStarMedia]

There is a fix to support the end of the x ball screw only. bore out the original lead screw support, insert a sealed bearing and machine the end of the ball screw to accept the bearing

Good to know as it's the x axis where the support can matter. the y axis is short enough to not matter and the z in it's orientation and length matters less as well.

Richard

[DarkStarMedia]

Care to elaborate on what the differences are between an IH manual mill bought in the last 2 years and a clone are? I know the defects I found in mine are the same that others in this forum have found in their IH brand mills so please enlighten me as to what other defects I have yet to find.

Mike

+1

[SCzEngrgGroup]

IH has a webpage that details the difference between their machines and the generic RF45 knock-offs - beefer castings, more ribbing, the 12" "collar", and others. It is, in a number of significant ways, a stiffer, more capable machine. There may, or may not, be a "clone" out there with some of their improvements, but I don't believe any of them have all of the IH improvements.

Regards,
Ray L.