[VIDE]

Hello,

Someone know the pinout off X3 to the first's 8055M.

Best regards

Vide

[cnc321]

This is the information in the Fagor Manual

"Connector X3 - RS232
It is a 9-pin SUB-D type male connector to connect the RS 232 C serial port. The cable shield must be connected to the metallic hood at each end.

Pin Signal
1- DCD
2- RxD
3- TxD
4- DTR
5- GND ISO
6- DSR
7- RTS
8- CTS
9-- - -

All the pins of this connector are opto-isolated.

Cable length
EIA RS232C standards specify that the capacitance of the cable must not exceed 2500pF; therefore, since average cables have a capacitance between 130pF and 170pF per meter, the maximum length of the cable should not be greater than 1 5m (49ft).
Shielded cables with twisted-pair wires should be used to avoid communication interference when using long cables.
Use shielded 7 conductor cable of 0.14 mm2 section. Transmission speed
The CNC can operate at up to 115,200 Baud.
It is recommended to ground the unused pins in order to avoid erroneous control and data signal interpretations."

[David Wheeldon]

Hi

I see you already have a reply. We found that the manual did not suit our machine which is an 8050M so the following may also help.

The attached .pdf shows the wiring we used and its original was kindly supplied to us by the local Fagor agent -High Technologies Pty Ltd Padstow NSW Australia. Contact is Brian Laird.

I know this works for our model CNC since we only built it last week and have tested it using Fagor's WINDNC ver 5.2.

We found that we have to watch a couple of things.

1. Our cable paases throught the wall of a pendant control via a 21 pin connector. We basically went straight through it ie same out as in.

2. We can only use a PC with an RS232 9 pin port. We tried a couple of commercial RS232/USB adaptors that work every time with an number of inverters and industrial PLCs but not with the 8050M. If someone has a solution for this please post it and let me know.

[Tom Fischer]

Are you Still Having Problems with your rs232 interface?

[David Wheeldon]

Hi Tom
Last week we set the DNC connection up with an IBM laptop using its 9 pin RS232 connection and it worked perfectly.
Over the next few days we will connect permanently to an older PC with RS232 using Fagor's WINDNC. I don't see why that won't be OK but if it's not I'll let you know. It won't be the pin out detail since High Technologies here use it on their installations.
As I said previously we have not been succesful using a later Laptop with only USB ports and a RS232/USB adaptor.

Regards David Wheeldon

[TAProwler]

Glad you got the RS232 connection set up and working.

If you have a need in the future, I have gotten a newer laptop to connect to an older Fagor controller using a USB/RS232 adapter, but it wasn't without some trial and error.

It took a while to wire up an RS232 cable exactly as Fagor recommends. I used this Prolific (PPA) USB-to-Serial cable:.
It's a simple, inexpensive adapter. Setting up the USB-to-Serial port on the laptop was the hardest part. Once I found and installed the right driver (from Prolific's website) it started to work out. Next, I installed the WinDNC program, but it wouldn't communicate with the machine.

Eventually, I found out that my problem was with the computer and the usb ports. It seems that Windows has to create a sort-of virtual com port to assign to that USB port.
When I played with the com port settings, I finally got WinDNC to talk to the machine.

Anyway, it is possible if you or anyone needs to try this in the future.

[David Wheeldon]

Thanks for your repsonse. I'm willing to go down that path so that we have a backup to our current fix.
I did get information via a private reply that with older RS232 connections the voltage needed may be 12 or 15 V depending on the age. A USB connection nowadays is only 5V and since there is no amplification available via the adapter some systems may not work.
In your case can you tell me the Fagor controller model and its age.
If its possible can you send the pin-out details and your final USB port settings and we'll give it a try. Our Fagor manual contains a number of possible options and which one might work I don't know. Plus soldering drives me mad.

Regards Dave Wheeldon

[TAProwler]

Hi Dave,

My machine has a Fagor 8025M controller. I used the simplified pinout (9pin-to-9pin) specified in the attached .pgn file (middle drawing). It is the same as the pinout specified in the attached .pdf file. The .png is actually just a page copied out of the Fagor 8025 installation manual.

Even though my machine has a 25pin connector available on the outside of the machine, I went into the cabinet and plugged directly into the 9 pin connector on the back of the CNC computer. Depending on how the machine manufacturer does it, the connector available on the outside of the machine may or may not have the lines crossed-over that you see in the drawings. Some may wire them straight through and then you have to include the cross-overs in your wiring. To avoid any possibility of messing it up, I went right to the connector on the computer so I knew exactly what I wanted to (needed to) do to get it set up.

I used the Prolific Adpapter driver PL2303 that you can find and download here: USBSerialDrivers.com - Download FTDI and Prolific Drivers
I tried to attach the .zip files with the drivers in them, but the uploads failed and wouldn't attach. So, hopefully you can find them and download from the links. I have also attached the Prolific Adapter installer .pdf file to use as a guide.

I used WinDNC 55 ver5.2 that you can find and download here:
Apollo Machine Tool Services

So, install the adapter driver and then install the WinDNC program. Start the Fagor controller, plug in the adapter and start WinDNC. See if it will communicate with the machine.

If not, I went into the WinDNC setup menu and looked at what com port it was using (WinDNC defaulted to COM5 when I did this). Then I went to Win7 hardware device manager and looked for the USB Adapter in the com ports section. Right click on it and go to properties and then look for the com port setting. When you find it, set the com port to the same one that WinDNC was using. You have to make sure that nothing else on the computer is using that com port - but if you don't have the laptop plugged into anything but the CNC machine, this shouldn't be a problem. At this point I might have closed everything and restarted my laptop. Start back up and open WinDNC and it should find the Fagor controller.

You're probably already familiar with WinDNC. If not, it's menu driven and just takes a while clicking on menus to figure out what you're doing.

It's been a while since I did this, and I'm not at home so I can't go into the shop and try to come up with a step-by-step process for you. But, give it a go. If you play around with the Win7 settings, you'll eventually get the computer to see the Prolific adapter thru the correct com port and then WinDNC will be able to talk to the machine controller.

A couple other things that confused me for a while:
1. One is that you have to plug the adapter into the same USB port each time. If you plug it into a different USB port in the computer (if you have more than one), then you will have to play with the com ports again. It seems that Win7 has to create (some kind of) a separate virtual com port for each thing you plug into each USB port. I'm not sure of the technical explanation for this, but it's the best way I can try to explain it in layman's terms.
2. You will only see the Prolific Adapter in the com ports section of the device drivers in Win7 when the adapter is actually plugged into the USB port. If it is not plugged in, then Win7 removes the adapter from the com ports section of the device manager.

When you get a chance to give this a try, let us know how it works. If I can provide any more help at that point, send me a PM and I will go out to the shop and see if I can help you get it set up.

Good Luck.
Todd



Fagor 8025M_RS232.pdf

Prolific_pl2303_DriverInstaller_v1.3.pdf

[angelw]

I did get information via a private reply that with older RS232 connections the voltage needed may be 12 or 15 V depending on the age. A USB connection nowadays is only 5V and since there is no amplification available via the adapter some systems may not work.
In your case can you tell me the Fagor controller model and its age.
If its possible can you send the pin-out details and your final USB port settings and we'll give it a try. Our Fagor manual contains a number of possible options and which one might work I don't know. Plus soldering drives me mad.

Regards Dave Wheeldon

Hi Dave,
Valid signals are plus or minus 3 to 15 volts; the ±3 V range near zero volts is not a valid RS-232 level and is used to accommodate noise. The standard specifies a maximum open-circuit voltage of 25 volts: signal levels of ±5 V, ±10 V, ±12 V, and ±15 V are all commonly seen depending on the power supplies available within a device. RS-232 drivers and receivers must be able to withstand indefinite short circuit to ground or to any voltage level up to ±25 volts. Accordingly, you will often see the voltage range for RS232 communication stated as plus or minus 3 to 25 volts


Hi Todd,
Do you have Win7 installed as a 64 or 32 bit Operating System? Its my understanding that the architecture of the RS232 Uart makes it incompatible with a 64 bit system. This was communicated to me directly by the manufacturers of one of the better USB to Serial adapters when I was developing software using serial comms and a USB to Serial adapter.

Regards,

Bill

[TAProwler]

Hi Bill,

That's a good catch. I would never have guessed that the 64bit Win7 was not compatible. I did install the 32bit Win7 because I did want it to be as backward compatible as possible with some of the older software that I have.

Well then, it looks like I got my setup to work with a little bit of skill but also a healthy dose of LUCK too!

What makes the Uart incompatible with the 64bit Win7?
R/Todd

[angelw]

What makes the Uart incompatible with the 64bit Win7?
R/Todd

Hi Todd,
I'm not quite sure as I haven't checked it out further due to the information I received being along the lines that no development in that direction is going to occur. If I can locate the email referring to this matter, I'll post it.

Even though my machine has a 25pin connector available on the outside of the machine, I went into the cabinet and plugged directly into the 9 pin connector on the back of the CNC computer. Depending on how the machine manufacturer does it, the connector available on the outside of the machine may or may not have the lines crossed-over that you see in the drawings. Some may wire them straight through and then you have to include the cross-overs in your wiring. To avoid any possibility of messing it up, I went right to the connector on the computer so I knew exactly what I wanted to (needed to) do to get it set up.

I can't recall which way around this is, as its been a while since I've been called to set an 8025 up with comms, but the pin out follows convention if a DB9 connector is used at the actual control, and does not if a DB25 connector is used; or the other way around. I'm talking about the connector at the actual comms board and not on the outside of the control enclosure. The lines I'm referring to are the TX and RX lines. Most control units have DB9 connectors, so I think its the DB25, if used, does not follow convention.

Regards,

Bill

[TAProwler]

Bill,
That's interesting the DB25 is not conventional.

WRT to 64bit OS and Uarts, the following links may be germaine:

HugePine USB-UART in Win7 x64

cp2102 usb to uart windows 7 64-bit driver | GPS Data Logger Software - BT747

ML605 USB/UART Bridge under Windows 7 64 bit - Xilinx User Community Forums

The first link probably describes the issue the best.
Thanks for the info.
R/Todd

[CNCTech25]

Transmission speed
The CNC can operate at up to 115,200 Baud.

This information is half right. The newer 8055 controls can work at that high of a speed, but the original 8055 controls can only handle up to 9600 baud, which is P0=7 on the serial parameters

[angelw]

This is the information in the Fagor Manual

"Connector X3 - RS232
It is a 9-pin SUB-D type male connector to connect the RS 232 C serial port. The cable shield must be connected to the metallic hood at each end.

Cable length
EIA RS232C standards specify that the capacitance of the cable must not exceed 2500pF; therefore, since average cables have a capacitance between 130pF and 170pF per meter, the maximum length of the cable should not be greater than 1 5m (49ft).

"

Grounding the Shield at both ends (both devices) can lead to Ground Loops. A Ground Loop can occur when any two devices are grounded in Different Places, or if one device is not grounded well enough. For example, you may experience a ground loop when you connect a PC and a CNC control together with a serial data cable, if the CNC machine has a ground stake driven through the shop floor, and your Personal Computer is grounded to the ac wall socket, or if one device is not grounded well enough. The ground loop occurs when there is a different electrical potential between the Grounds of the two devices. This results in an electrical current being conducted through the data cable. and can burn out the IC chips that send and receive the RS232 serial signals, if the difference in potential is greater than about 30 volts. Accordingly, unless good grounding to the same ground can be assured for both devices, its recommended to ground the shield at the CNC end only.

Cable length is highly dependent on the Baud Rate being used, with the Standard being based on a capacitance of 50 pF/foot to allow maximum communication speed of 19200 to occur. If speed is reduced by a factor 2 or 4, the maximum length increases dramatically, as shown in figures obtained by test done by Texas Instruments years ago.

Using a cable with low capacitance allows you to span longer distances without going beyond the limitations of the standard. For example, a cable with a capacitance of 17 pF/ft will allow a maximum cable length of 147 feet (2500pF/17) at maximum speed.

Baud Rate ---- Cable Length
19200 ---------- 50
9600 ------------ 500
4800 ------------ 1000
2400 ------------ 3000

Regards,

Bill

[jmweng]

Hi all bringing up an old thread that came up in my internet searching.

So i have just bought n old chevalier lathe with a fagor 8050 controller wondering if anyone can tell me the settings to run the r232 to pc/dnc has a 21 or 27 pin plug on side of console

Thanks