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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Mori Seiki Machines > Mori Seiki lathes > Mori-Seiki SL-1H :( OLD TIMERS WHERE ARE YOU?
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    6

    Mori-Seiki SL-1H :( OLD TIMERS WHERE ARE YOU?

    Gentlemen (or ladies):

    :drowning: After 6 months of hair pulling, swapped hydraulic pump supply phase, main board, and memory board, I managed to bring a Mori Seiki Sl-1H / (Yasnac 2000GII) back to life. Now I just need to understand how to set up the offsets/ machine origin/ PRZ. I feel like I entered into the land of OZ. . . move aside Dorothy.

    Have you run a Mori-Seiki SL-1H (with CRT)??? I need someone to help step me through setting the machine zero. . . and the tool offsets. I've gone through 3 Yasnac 2000G/lx-1 books and after hours of fruitless play I have to throw in the towel. This machine is definitely not as simple as a HAAS or as easy as a Fanuc control to setup.

    I've been turning on the machine with the tool post at the limit switch position, setting the x, y . At that point all values are at zero. With tool #1 (register T01) I turn the part press the PRC button, enter the -x diameter, press reset. . . then touch off the Z and set it to zero. Then when I turn the mode switch to to bring the turret back to zero It decides that zero position is somewhere near the center line of the machine.

    Firstly, the machine X axis appears to be in the reverse direction. Secondly I understand it uses G50 for home position/ reference. The LX-1 book mentions that the tool offsets be set in T50 the other books dont. I notice that T00 and T50 are blank wherein the other registers have 0's where the x, y, r values are. I'm not understand it, so - Beyond that I'm feelin pretty green.

    By the way, I've got all the drawings/ manuals if you need one!

    Please help me out guys. Kind regards, :withstupi

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    236
    I thought I had this procedure typed up on my old message board, I could not
    find it, I will try to give you a comprehensive run down today or tomorrow
    on how to set tool I have 4 of these machines, used to have 6, once you do it, its not as tough as it appears

    Wayne
    Visit our face book page, search on FaceBook; High-Desert-Precision-CNC-Machining-Nosalas-Hobby-Shop

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    236
    First off, Let me tell ya, The books supplied with these model machines
    were pretty worthless, They were in the first couple of years of selling
    these in the US, There were many changes made to these machines
    as they evolved in the early 80s

    I get people all the time ask if I have wiring diagrams and this type of data
    and believe me, it is scarce. The stuff that was available was horribly
    translated from Japanese to English and the info was Not written well

    So anyhow, I have two exact models of SL-1H you have, I been running
    these since 1984, So I may be able to help.

    First thing you will need to take note of, Center-line from home to the factory
    tool holders on that model is 5.0000

    Also you mention things appear backwards, this tells me you prolly have
    experience with newer model CNC lathes (Hass you mention) and industry
    decided in the late 80s or so that the designation of X on these machines
    was wrong. Its not a simple fix on these old Mori's, so I would stay with it for now

    Someone like myself who still has a shop full of these older machines,
    its would prolly wreak havoc on my programming techniques if I had to
    switch between the positive side of thinking from negative on X designation

    So, go ahead and call me old school

    First thing you need to verify is home out the machine, Via Joystick
    get those two lamps lit near the joystick and origen out the machine

    After homing it out, lamps lit, Go to POS page, Use PAGE button
    to view all four number sets

    Use both hands, hit all three buttons simultaneously
    X POS ORG

    you should see some of those numbers zero out

    then
    Z POS ORG

    X POS CAN

    Z POS CAN

    you may have to do this a couple of times to get them all to zero

    This will leave Increment with some erroneous numbers

    rotate the left knob you used to get into jog mode to "AUTO"

    this will cancel out the increment X & Z numbers
    (I use this feature to keep track of position when im hand
    turning parts, Once you figure it out, you will find it handy)

    Now for the offsets

    Lets say we are working with tool 1

    the offset data storage point for tool 1 is T51 in the offset table

    How the control works, you call that number in your part program
    using line code G50 T5100



    Lets jump ahead to tool 2

    drill

    Go to offset table "OFS", find T52
    The value for X will be 5.0000 (Assuming you machine is not
    hammered too much and that alignment value is valid)

    Just type in
    X
    -
    5.
    WR

    The Z value will be the difference from home to work piece face

    to set that value, put a drill in tool 2

    Assuming you machine is homed out per above instructions

    Rotate the turret to position 2 if things look clear

    Jog the drill to the face of the part until you are happy its touching or close
    enough to set

    Again, Offset table, T52,
    that tells you there is a number in the offset register

    On the soft keypad, type
    Z
    0
    "PRC" (PRC= Position record)
    "WR" (WR = write to offset)
    "Reset" (Always hit Reset to clear the register for the next tool set)
    you should see a value either change or write in a new value the Z part of the table
    X for now, just type in
    X-5.
    "WR"
    "reset"
    and the value of 5.0000 should pop into the table at T52

    Lets go back to tool 1

    Home out the machine

    go to manual mode, select tool 1 with the rotary knob, and manually
    rotate the turret to tool position 1, Always be careful tools dont run
    into the workpiece, this machine does not have a whole heck of a lot
    of work space, but in the long run, this can work to your advantage
    because less travel lengths on smaller parts mean less cycle times

    Next task
    assuming we are in agreement T1 is a turning tool, jog down to
    workpiece, turn on spindle, take a face cut, keep the tool on that
    Z location
    Offset table T51
    Z
    0
    "PRC"
    "WR"
    Reset

    To set the X, a bit more tricky, but once ya got it, I think you will find
    the GII user friendly and set ups are quick

    Turn on spindle, Take a clean turn on the OD, Do not move the X, Back
    off the tool in Z

    Calipers or Mic, check the diameter you just turned
    All my machines are set as diameter, Im hoping yours is as well,
    because these are the instructions for a diameter set machine

    OFS
    T51
    type in X-
    the figure you just measured, Example 1.1
    X- 1.1
    PRC
    WR
    RESET

    that should calculate the the diameter figure from centerline to home position

    there are a couple of ways to verify this
    Clear the tool from the part, Jog it down to the number just created
    in the X offset table, and see if the tool nose is visibly close to the centerline
    if your work piece, That position number should relative to the one in the X
    offset

    Print this out, and give this a try, When you create your part program
    remember these machines works in the X minus zone, header of each
    tool should look like the following example
    G50 T5100 (this calls the offset figure from 51 position in the offset table
    G00 T0101 ( 01, calls turret position, Second 01 calls minor wear offset from 01 in OFS table
    G97 S2000 M03 (Tells spindle turn on 2000 rpm)
    /M08 turns on coolant "/" give you the option of block skip and no coolant)

    G00 X-1.0Z.1
    G01Z-1.F.01
    X-1.1
    G00Z0
    G01X.04F.005
    G00Z1.0M09 (Clears tool from part, turns coolant off)
    G51T0100 (Sends machine to home position and cancels out all offsets)
    M30


    Adjustments to the major offsets are simple, go to the desired offset
    use U+or- W+or- with number and it will calculate the addition or subtraction
    on the offsets

    You can also use minor wear offsets located at OFS 01-08, I dont generally
    use those, they can mess with one set up to the next if you forget to clear
    them

    Any questions, Post them here, I will try to answer

    Waynno
    Visit our face book page, search on FaceBook; High-Desert-Precision-CNC-Machining-Nosalas-Hobby-Shop

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    6
    :cheers: Wayne:

    I haven't tried it out yet. . . but, you've got me pretty jazzed now and I'm stoked to see it happen when I get back to the machine. A million super thank you's in advance for your time and assistance! I'll let you know what comes out of the wash.

    Brendan

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    236
    Please let us know if it works, I had a message board for these old Mori's, But kept
    getting hacked and spammed to to no end. I just have not had time to fire it back up
    with protections

    Thanks

    Waynno
    Visit our face book page, search on FaceBook; High-Desert-Precision-CNC-Machining-Nosalas-Hobby-Shop

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    6

    Unhappy

    :stickpoke

    Waynno (or is your name Wayne?):

    Firstly, thank you for the detail on the machine setup. I was able to move the turret/ tool post around using the softkeys/ g-code.

    Secondly, I'm kinda bummed now. I realize now that I have to jog the tool down to find the machine zero. I didn't measure accurately; but, it's around 3.50" to the centerline. I don't think the machine is hammered; but, it's definitely out of calibration. And, I don't know how to calibrate it.

    Thirdly, I discovered that when I try to command the spindle on it results in a Error 1.51 M-Fin. I'm guessing the means the computer doesn't see the spinle on. What is odd with the machine is when the mode switch is rotated to the T, MDI, or Edit side - if I press the spindle on, it jogs the spindle. If I rotate it quickly to the jog, mpg, zero side and press the spindle latches on. . . otherwise if I'm slow to rotate the mode switch the spindle does not come on. ???

    For me this is another snafu moment out of about a dozen I've experienced so far with this machine. . . one step forward, two steps back.

    Any ideas?

    Brendan

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    236
    On the M-Fin issue, This is something I had to address on my very first
    SL-1 bought back in 1989, for a whopping $45 grand, I tell ya I it seemed
    like friggen for ever to pay this thing off, So it has much sentimental
    value to me, to others, Id be lucky to get 5 grand for it in todays market
    :violin:

    Anyhow, look at the attached pic, find these little mechanical relays
    there may still be a clear plastic cover to remove to access them, but
    they are what gives info to the control, such as spindle agreement,
    basically that goes "1" when the spindle reaches programmed RPM, and
    the machine continues, The others tell control spindle is ready, spindle
    alarm and such

    Suggestion, during start up of spindle, have another person carefully
    near this relay bank, I say carefully, because there is a lot of high voltage
    activity in this cabinets

    Anyhow, when M-Fin starts flashing on the CRT, Use a wood dowel or plastic
    blunt object and give these relays a tap tap, and see if this clears the hang
    up

    This is something I learned back in the day when Yaskawa still recognized
    their product and their techs were very helpful when I ran into this problem
    we ID the faulty relay, the tech sent me one at no cost, and I soldered it
    in myself, But that was way back early 1990s

    Sorry to say, ya wont get that kind of service these days, Most likely
    if this is indeed your issue, we can maybe bypass the faulty relay and get
    you running

    The issue of machine being off center relative to home, its not a fatal one,
    quite frankly, the machine is prolly usable as is, and the offset settings will
    compensate for the miss alignment, sounds like a parameter got either fiddled
    with or an encoder may have been serviced and just tossed on without
    alignment procedure

    So one thing at a time, try the relay tap thing, if that is the issue,
    I can maybe walk you though some solutions using Diagnostic table
    and IDing witch relay is giving you a problem
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Relay.jpg  
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    6
    I imagine it was a happy moment for you to pay off the bill on that first machine. I hate being in debt. Actually 6.5K is about what I've paid for my SL-1. . . to date (3.5K broken machine, with parts, and renting rigging equip.).
    Thank you for the good info. I'll try it out. I chatted with a Mori technician today and he helped me with the machine home. It looks like most of the parameters I have came from another model. . . not sure what. He gave me a few parameters for a SL-2 (I believe he said). I'm a lot closer to the home position now (about 4.75" from center) but it looks like I'll need to put an indicator and adjust the home sensor position (sensor dog/block) to get my 5.000" (appearently he didn't know how to set it). He seemed to think the spindle problem was caused by a bad connection. I have yet to explore this or the relay "tapping" as you suggested. I spindle on/off did act intermittent early on then dis-appeared. My background actually is in electronics; but, without any drawings to refer to it's almost useless knowledge.

    Do you like Rum?. . . I'm willing to separate with a bottle of aged Dominican rum if you'll send me your SL-1H parameters list. My SL-1H doesn't have a gear box on it. . . Anyway a small token of appreciation for your time in either case. . . just need an address. Kind Regards, Brendan

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    236
    I dont drink,

    But the following is the correct parameter set that should
    get you close, If there is a set from an SL-2 or any other model in that SL-1H, the
    machine will not function at all, so this may get you running alone

    Compare these, take note, there will be some soft limits and backlash values
    that will be a bit off, but not by much, and also this will set you up with
    300 baud 7,e,2 on your communication board if your machine is equipped,
    most of these I have run across are, but the rs 232 plug has a trick to
    connect it right

    Have fun, any other questions, post them here, I will do my best to help

    Waynno


    N1X0
    N2X1
    N3X1
    N4X0
    N5X0
    N6X9
    N7X6
    N8X0
    N9X1
    N10X0Z0I0K0
    N11X0Z0I0K0
    N12X0Z0I0K0
    N13X0Z0I0K0
    N14X0Z0I0K0
    N15X0Z0I0K0
    N16X0Z0I0K0
    N17X0Z0I0K0
    N18X0Z0I0K0
    N19X0Z0I0K0
    N20X0Z0I0K0
    N21X0Z0I0K0
    N22X0Z0I0K0
    N23X0Z0I0K0
    N24X0Z0I0K0
    N25X0Z0I0K0
    N26X0Z0I0K0
    N27X0Z0I0K0
    N28X0Z0I0K0
    N29X0Z0I0K0
    N30X78500Z59800I0K0
    N31X-6500Z-215200I0K0
    N32X0Z0I0K0
    N33X0Z0I0K0
    N34X0Z0I0K1
    N35X0Z0I0K0
    N36X53Z107I4K4
    N37X0Z0I22K0
    N38X0Z0I2K34
    N39X8191Z565367I132K196
    N40X8
    N41X1
    N42X0
    N43X0
    N44X2
    N45X0
    N46X0
    N47X0
    N48X0Z0I0K0
    N49X12004Z1I4K0
    N50X15
    N51X4
    N52X25
    N53X50
    N54X25
    N55X0
    N56X0
    N57X6
    N58X1Z0I0K0
    N59X3Z54734I0K0
    N60X0Z0I0K0
    N61X1Z0I0K0
    N62X2Z1I0K0
    N63X32Z32I0K0
    N64X8192Z8192I0K0
    N65X0Z0I0K0
    N66X0Z0I0K0
    N67X400Z800I0K0
    N68X0
    N69X10
    N70X0
    N71X0
    N72X0
    N73X0Z30I500K500
    N74X0
    N75X0
    N76X20
    N77X8Z8I0K0
    N78X0
    N79X0
    N80X1
    N81X0
    N82X1
    N83X1
    N84X1
    N85X0
    N86X5000Z0I0K0
    N87X0
    N88X0
    N89X1
    N90X18Z5I0K0
    N91X0Z0I0K0
    N92X0Z0I0K0
    N93X53Z107I0K0
    N94X535Z1070I0K0
    N95X25Z45I0K0
    N96X30Z15I0K0
    N97X1770Z1000I0K0
    N98X40
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    80
    Brendan
    Do you have Electrical wiring diagram?
    I have an SL 2 and NO documentation, I pass thru all story you mention on your post
    Now I am at point of moving axes and home correctly.
    But still looking for a signal that allows machine to cycle start, it is a diagnostic I5 bit 7
    While you press diagnostic key, type I and look at rung 5 you should see a 1 at bit 6 and 7, this tells you all conditions are met in order to cycle start.
    Edit key, Auto mode, Turret clamp, Chuck clamp. Lubrication OK (bit 6)

    I have been reading post between you n wayne, he is really good!
    Had helped me a lot in the past.

    Well another thing, I have find electric diagrams for spindle unit at yaskawa page
    www.yaskawa.com you can download them from there.
    As an electronic you will find a lot helpfull info there.

    Regards
    Robby

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    6

    Electrical diagram

    I apologize for the slow response. My computer died a few weeks ago and I'm now just trying to get it back together, so to speak. Please email me your address and I'll send you a copy of the electrical diagram. I've got a block diagram for the NC section. Kind Regards, [email protected]

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    80
    BB
    I have been able to isolate all interlocks and cycle start with success!
    there is only one thing left.
    When command G01 move, cycle start lits but No move, No alarm, just stand still.!
    I know there is something wrong with spindle encoder, but it should affect only Thread cycles.
    Any way I command G98 ft/min. but still getting same result.
    Any ideas?
    Robby

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    6028
    Bad spindle encoder=no feedrate in G95 mode. How can it feed if it doesn't see a spindle RPM? You need to be in G94, IPM mode if your not going to fix the encoder.

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