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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Fadal > Would you buy another FADAL????
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  1. #1
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    Aug 2011
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    Would you buy another FADAL????

    Hello everyone,

    I just got my first CNC center, about 6 months ago. Fadal 6030, 1999, 88HS.I used to work with Makino, Mazak,Haas, Hurco..... I was little bit sceptical about Fadal brand, but we need it something with the travel capabilities this machine has and somethig that will fit our budget. I must say that I'm very impressed with the machine. Super easy friendly to use, parts are a LOT cheaper than any other brand. Service available everywhere. If i need another CNC center I would buy Fadal again!

    I would like to hear from you guys! :cheers:

    Thanks

    E

  2. #2
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    Aug 2006
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    52
    I don't need another one, but I'm not selling mine!

  3. #3
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    Apr 2005
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    1194
    Definately yes would buy one but if I needed current day and age speed I wouldnt buy one there are much better choices. Fadal machines are great for OEMs and those that dont need to rip out parts faster than the competition.
    We have had good luck with our Fadals milling mostly soft steel and aluminum up to 5 axis. We are always looking for spare parts If you have a broken down Fadal give a shout.

  4. #4
    It depends. We use ours for anything and everything. Not blazing fast, but holds tolerances/hole locations like crazy, even for being 21 yrs old. If the price was right like this one was, I have a small selection of tooling already, and the typical workload type was/is the same, sure would. For all of the above reasons, ease of use, serviceability, etc.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    126
    I got a new 15XT back in 98 and have made 80% of my living off it, it has only gone down "once" in 13 years, when I was looking at buying a new small VMC back in 98 I called selway 3 times before they even bothered to ship me paperwork on the haas machines and then after 2 more calls to them I still did not have a price on the haas , I made one call to ellison machine about the fadals and had there sales guy at the shop the next morning, the service ellison has gave me has been 100% . I think haas is a good machine but there dealer out here in seattle area blows. when I started needing a second small VMC I went looking for a fadal and found one a month ago , its a 2002 vmc 15 and had 300 hours on it, I had to fix some oiling metering units on it but thats all it needed, It has payed for its self in 3 weeks of running and I could not be more happy with fadals.

    for the price there the best thing going in my book.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    1577
    Short answer - Depends.

    It always seems like everyone has the same comment about the Fadal. It starts with - "For the money"...

    If bottom dollar to get you in the door to CNC machining is the heaviest factor Fadal should be a first choice (availability of machines of course is relevent since Fadal's demise).

    Our mid to late 90s Fadals (bought brand new) are pretty rock solid. Fixed some major issues right off the bat and they've been trouble free ever since.

    In 2008 we bought the last brand new Fadal our dealer had ('08 3016) and a "new" Factory ReManufactured 4020. We got a great deal on both and still paid too much. Thousands of dollars in repairs in the first few months and constant downtime. The ReMan is a frankenstein like conglomeration of parts that the casting was never designed to use, impossible to order correct parts for, and has a Y ballscrew that is not inline with the ways that CAN'T be fixed (casting interference).

    The smaller 3016 hasn't been as bad but there are fundamental flaws in it's design too. Don't want to really get into it but it scraps parts regularly because something is causing the X axis to spontaneously jump a 1/2" or so before it "corrects" (jumps back to where it should be), then e-stops. It happens when we are cutting Delrin (we do a lot of it) and I suspect it is a static electricity thing but we can't solve it. Come to think of it, both of the new machines have done it and I think it's because the servo cables aren't shielded. Anyway, forget the repairs, we are spending thousands a year on scrap parts. The only fix we have at the moment is fan/suction system to keep that shavings out of there which is a minor safety issue.

    Too long of a reply already but to sum up - "for the price" of the last Fadals we bought in '08 we picked up 2 used Haas VF-3s (2008 and a 2010 that was just 3 months old) loaded with Renishaw probing, augers, P-Cool, basically loaded, in December last year. Lucky? Maybe. But I won't be looking at another Fadal. Maybe for the garage at home because tooling is not a problem but not to try to make a living with. These Haas machines have never had a tech's hands on them.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    236
    Quote Originally Posted by machinescnc View Post
    Hello everyone,

    I just got my first CNC center, about 6 months ago. Fadal 6030, 1999, 88HS.I used to work with Makino, Mazak,Haas, Hurco..... I was little bit sceptical about Fadal brand, but we need it something with the travel capabilities this machine has and somethig that will fit our budget. I must say that I'm very impressed with the machine. Super easy friendly to use, parts are a LOT cheaper than any other brand. Service available everywhere. If i need another CNC center I would buy Fadal again!

    I would like to hear from you guys! :cheers:

    Thanks

    E
    Im a one man Job shop, Most of my past work was lathe work, so
    I accumulated 6 older model Mori Seiki cnc lathes over the span
    of 22 years or so

    I added a Fadal VMC 40 about 14 years ago just to do secondary ops
    related to the lathe work, simple stuff, just milling 2d profiles
    and drilling/tapping holes, Never a single problem with it

    Long story shot, the production turning has long since dried up
    and I was finding myself in front of the VMC 40 for days on end.

    So late last year I picked up a newer model VMC 15, and absolutely
    love it. It has high speed control, and rigid tapping.

    I am also enjoying the fact this VMC 15 does rather well on 3d profiling

    My only drawback is floor space, if I had a bigger shop, I would most
    defenetly get a newer model 60 30 or something along those lines,
    size has been an issue and I have had to no bid some stuff because of it


    So answer to original question, Would I buy another? You bet!
    These are great machines for the price, My shop set up is on a large
    piece of property in the Mojave desert CA, I dont pay rent, I was lucky
    and found a property with a shop, house already built and Im running all my
    stuff on a rotary phase converter, so far, 6 years on the RPC, and
    still no problems

    Waynno
    Visit our face book page, search on FaceBook; High-Desert-Precision-CNC-Machining-Nosalas-Hobby-Shop

  8. #8
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    May 2012
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    0
    This is a old thread but figured I would add my 2 cents for anybody out there with the same question.. Fadal is a hunk of junk. Unless you like smoking spindles every 6 months(assuming your a job shop putting alot of hours on your machines), I would not invest!! My shop has 4 fadals-2 6030's and 2 4020's...Really we have 2 fadals, a 4020 smoked a spindle and the boss doesnt even want to replace it, one 6030 has .01 of backlash. With the type of parts we make .010 will never work.. And the 6030 is a 2002!!!! Not that old of a machine!! Although it has been crashed a few times, and literally only a few times, what does that tell you?? There weak, they dont hold up. I don't care what anybody says, somebody is bound to crash a machine, wether its not looking at H values on new programs or just un-experienced operators putting in the wrong offset. Sounds stupid but this DOES happen! We have a 87 matsuura mc 510-vs that holds +/- .0005 in every direction!! That was the first machine in our shop and its ALMOST as good as the day we bought it. This thing has been in constant use for 25 years!!! As you could imagine it's been crashed several times. Although the good ol' matuura is down do to some sort of electrical probelm for the past couple months, my point is it's hard to beat jap machines. 6030 MIGHT have a place for you if your doing large parts, just for the price of the extra axis movement.... But hell now days used 6030's are going for some serious bucks!! My advice, get an older jap machine, matsuura, morei-sekia,etc

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    1194
    Quote Originally Posted by millingkevv View Post
    This is a old thread but figured I would add my 2 cents for anybody out there with the same question.. Fadal is a hunk of junk. Unless you like smoking spindles every 6 months(assuming your a job shop putting alot of hours on your machines), I would not invest!! My shop has 4 fadals-2 6030's and 2 4020's...Really we have 2 fadals, a 4020 smoked a spindle and the boss doesnt even want to replace it, one 6030 has .01 of backlash. With the type of parts we make .010 will never work.. And the 6030 is a 2002!!!! Not that old of a machine!! Although it has been crashed a few times, and literally only a few times, what does that tell you?? There weak, they dont hold up. I don't care what anybody says, somebody is bound to crash a machine, wether its not looking at H values on new programs or just un-experienced operators putting in the wrong offset. Sounds stupid but this DOES happen! We have a 87 matsuura mc 510-vs that holds +/- .0005 in every direction!! That was the first machine in our shop and its ALMOST as good as the day we bought it. This thing has been in constant use for 25 years!!! As you could imagine it's been crashed several times. Although the good ol' matuura is down do to some sort of electrical probelm for the past couple months, my point is it's hard to beat jap machines. 6030 MIGHT have a place for you if your doing large parts, just for the price of the extra axis movement.... But hell now days used 6030's are going for some serious bucks!! My advice, get an older jap machine, matsuura, morei-sekia,etc
    Sounds like that 4020 needs a good home. Let me know if he wants to move it. IF you have .01 of backlash you need thrust bearings if not a need ballscrew for sure. Keep in mind that the Fadal uses the same bearings and same ballscrew types as that matty. It is moving much more weight around and probly had more roughing than that other machine. It is also possible your lube line has become restricted. I do belive the older DC machines from 1993-1996 were the best of the DC machines and the AC machines from 1997-2001 were the best AC machines. After 2001 something changed.
    We have had good luck with our Fadals milling mostly soft steel and aluminum up to 5 axis. We are always looking for spare parts If you have a broken down Fadal give a shout.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    236
    Here is a short vid I recently made to show my Two Fadals,

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNH2Dn9IBrs&feature=relmfu]Nosala Engineering.mpg - YouTube[/ame]

    The VMC40 I have had 15 years, never 1 problem, Its running
    as I type this, almost 2 years ago, I picked up a VMC 15, I love it

    I wish I had more floor space, I would have already bought a bigger model

    Wayne
    Visit our face book page, search on FaceBook; High-Desert-Precision-CNC-Machining-Nosalas-Hobby-Shop

  11. #11
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    May 2012
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    0
    I'll ask the boss man if he wants to get rid of it. The matuura and fadal may have the same type of bearing and ballscrews, and the 6030 does have a bit more weight to it I would think, but thats no excuse. They should have built them to handle that extra weight...Know what im sayin As far as one machine being used as a rougher more than others is not the case either. Our machines all get a variety of materials, and no one machine in the shop is a roughing machine. I stand by my statment, fadals are a bad investment. But if they work great for you, and you never have repairs on them, more power to you!!:cheers:

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1389
    They did build them to handle more weight but the problem is the operator didnt think about the weight when he crashed the machine.
    I think your main problem with your fadal is the crashing of the machine as you stated above. you more than likely wiped out a thrust bearing or screwed up the ball screw nut.

  13. #13
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    May 2012
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    I'm sorry Delw, maybe your mind was "dwelling"(g4) as you were reading lmao...JK!! Did I not state that the matuura, that you stated has the same type of ball screws and bearings, has been up and running since our company has been in busniess?? And never had a single repair!! Although an electrial bug has had it down for a couple months, this has nothing to do with the z-axis and BACKLASH, which by the way the matsurra has ZERO backlash. Great blends after 25 years! Surely you can figure that thing has been crashed dozens of times after being operated for 25 years. Did you miss the part that the fadal is a 2002?? And has been crashed LITERALLY a FEW times?? Did you miss the part that the matsurra is an 1987? What part did you miss?? There is no way on gods green earth that you are going hold a strong argument that ANY fadal on this planet will keep with jap machines. Hey, maybe the fadal will keep with the maturra on speed, almost lol, but it has 15 years more of technology put into it, which didn't amount to **** for fadal lmao!! Why do you think fadal is out of busniess???Hey I'm a true red blooded Amercian!!It's kills me to say that jap machines are the best, but it is what it is!!! I do agree with you that operator error was nothing but bad for the good ol' fadal, but hey,, I was 15 when we bought that machine, and i was saw ***** and debur *****, so I can't take the blame for this one:P
    We all machine parts here, so I have the upmost respect for anybody posting on here and willing to try and help people out, but I just don't agree on telling people to invest on a money pit. But hey like I said before, IF they work for you, then buy them!!! For our job shop, they get lots of hours, they dont hold up,period. They are for the most part, accurate enough though!
    Happy Machining-Kevin

  14. #14
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    Jan 2007
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    1389
    I was just making a point that when you crash a heavier machine it makes more damage.
    You really need to read some of the replies better cause your assuming way to much of what you think people are saying when there not.

  15. #15
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    May 2012
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    Sorry for coming off as that way Delw..I'm just defending my point as are you..How much heavier do you really think the Z axis is on the 6030 fadal versus a 4020??I'm positive it is heavier, but I would bet my hard earned cash it's not THAT much more. I'n reailty there pretty close to the same size...Not being a smart ass Delw!!!I'm just want someone with experience with fixing fadal, because I have ZERO when it comes to fixing them...Your making me think after hours damnit lol!!

  16. #16
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    Jan 2015
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    417

    Re: Would you buy another FADAL????

    Found this story about why people still buy older Fadals. (Basically lots of repair parts and easy to repair)

    good story



    There was one for sale on E-bay not too long ago..

    I wonder how many conversions actually were done..

    My Fadal theory.. If it aint making parts fast enough.. Buy another one.

    $8k.. That could put another VMC15 on your floor.


    How much money are you going to pour into your Ford Escort to make it go
    faster before you just say "**** It" and go buy a Mustang??

    Quicky story about Fadals being slow.. Years ago at another shop, I had to pull
    a job off the Fadal we had (had some long stuff to machine) and move it over to
    the Mazak FJV20.. IIRC, 6 tools. Spot, 2 drills, reamer, endmill, chamfer cutter.
    6 and a half minutes.

    Get the Mazak all set up and running... SAME EVERYTHING, speeds, feeds, doc, stepovers etc...
    less than 3 and a half minutes..

    So that day, there were only 2 of us in the shop and the other guy was a smart one, and we
    both wanted to know why there was a 3 minute difference.. We knew it would be faster, but
    not that much faster. I figured 10-12 seconds per tool change, and a bit on the rapids. I
    was figuring 5 minutes or so, not 3 and change.

    So we put all the tools back in the Fadal, grabbed the stop watches and pulled over 2 recliners that
    we for some reason had in the shop..

    True story: As we are kicked back in our recliners in front of the Fadal with our stop watches and
    clip boards.. The Mazak Salesman walks in.. It was kind of funny, and he reminded me of that for years.

    The mazak was 1186ipm or something like that.. The Fadal, an AC machine 900 on XY, 700 on Z.. But the
    ACCELERATIONS.. The direction changes.. No Dog Leg rapids on the mazak.. Even the spindle orient before
    the tool change.. That time adds up.. It was something like 20 seconds of non-machining time on the
    Mazak and 4 minutes on the Fadal.

    I knew then that when I went out on my own, I was getting Mazaks... Then the spindle popped on that
    Mazak. $11.5k, plus $11.5k core, plus some god awful amount for shipping and $2900 for a tech to
    install it so the warranty would be valid...

    After that I decided, I was Fadal all the way.. Though one of these days I would like to upgrade..
    But I have the floor space, I can keep piling them in here like dominoes.

  17. #17

    Re: Would you buy another FADAL????

    See I replied to this thread when I first bought the 1990 Fadal 4020 I mention in the post above. Just sold it to my neighbor 9 years to the day I bought it a couple of weeks ago. It lost an oil line 2-3 years ago and damaged the x axis way(only one, on the corner. Was rusted and pitted, not scored). Put new turcite in it had it roughed in as best as possible and ran it until two weeks ago when sold. In the meantime i'd bought a 2001 3016(in 2018), a ProtoTRAK LPM (bought new w/4 axis 2015).

    Sold the 4020 as I mention above to get a 6030. Found a 97 for a fair price. Also reasoned we didn't like the LPM for G code(my guys are not confident with conversational, another argument for another day). It had only about 500 hrs program time since new. Sold it for a fair price and bought another 2002 4020 to replace it with money left over. So yes I would, there are good deals out there, you have to buy them right, and do due diligence.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    51

    Re: Would you buy another FADAL????

    After seeking advice on which brand cnc would best suit me needs, where I live and my experience level (none, at that time) .... nearly everyone said Fadal. I am a one man business, live in a remote area and there is no Fadal tech guy within 1000 miles of here ... so getting someone in when I have a problem simply isn't going to happen.
    Several years down the track, getting the Fadal was the best move I ever did .... they are pretty tough and can handle the occasional rookie "crash" ok, they are a relatively easy machine to learn ... baring a few little idiosyncrasies, which you seem to learn the hard way.
    But above all else, you can trouble shoot, find and FIX problems yourself, plus a lot of the parts are generic items so they can be sourced from local suppliers rather than having to import them. In my situation you just can't beat that "fix-ability" aspect, based around simple robust engineering.

  19. #19
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    Jan 2015
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    417

    Re: Would you buy another FADAL????

    And Haas says they were the first to have a CNC Mill for under 50k There first Mill came out in 1988 at IMTS https://www.haascnc.com/about/history.html

    Problem was they copied the Fadal 1983 VMC40 (the 1983 Fadal 10,000 rpm was $49.9k Less than the unprecedented less than 50k he claims to have accomplished in 1988) Haas was One of Fadals first customers (somewhere around the first 100th Fadal produced).

  20. #20
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    Mar 2008
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    683

    Re: Would you buy another FADAL????

    I bought 2. then traded 1 of my small ones for a bigger one. Then bought two more. Anyone who says they are junk let me know and I'll come haul away the scrap matal for you. The tool changes add up but for my work it is not important. And if it was, I would rather have 2 with slower tool changes then one machine with a fast tool change.

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