[Starleper1]

Right off the top like Ray said, they are considerably more expensive. My BT-30 drill chuck from Mari-Tool was around $150. 30 taper is more rigid but on such a small machine you won't notice a difference. One advantage is repeatable run-out at your tool if you use the drive dogs because the tool will go in the spindle the same way every time. With TTS you have no idea which way the tool is oriented in the spindle. Unless your serious about spending some coin on tooling, stick with the R8 taper and TTS. I took the plunge to 30taper and have no regrets but it's not cheap.

[Flexo!]

But one thing I’m a bit confused of and would appreciate some help is in the bearing selection…..

For these machines you'd only need 3 bearings, 2 angular contact for the spindle proper, and one simple groove bearing supporting the shaft near the belt pulley.

15 degree contact angle are the most common, and are all you need.

Bearing sizes depend on the spindle you're getting. Are you going to use a special replacement spindle from Optimum? or Weiss style as seen in the G0704?

Prices on all tool holders is about the same - you can now get 5 ISO30, BT30, R8 or clone TTS style ER chucks for around $100-120 USD. You'd need to buy TTS style boring heads, drill chucks, face mills etc directly from Tormach, which bites the big one! (1 of the reasons i'm not getting them).

TTS looks like its much more simple to ATC with. Making a tool changer capable spindle for BT30 is pretty major!

I want to use an NT30 spindle from a Weiss WMD30 on my WMD25 machine. No chance of running an ATC with it for a variety of reasons.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

"Prices on all tool holders is about the same - you can now get 5 ISO30, BT30, R8 or clone TTS style ER chucks for around $100-120 USD." - I'd be really curious what you're basing this one. I've never seen ANY 30-taper tool holder, much less a collet chuck, for less than about $60 each. Even R8s are at least $30 each. The only "TTS" ER chucks I've seen anywhere near that cheap are the Chinese clones, which are NOT ATC-compatible.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Flexo!]

Wholesale Bulk 5pcs BT30 ER25 20L

Of course the way most CHEAP ebay sellers work is to hide the cost as shipping, but still, $30ea isn't too bad!

Its not going to be a Maritool chuck, but it dosent need balancing to 30kRPM, or 0.003mm run out for this level machine.

[Mad Welder]

Aaahhhh don't I feel stupid...........I tried to read up as much on the design specifics of the ISO 30 and or advantages or disadvantages over the R8 that I didn't look up the costs of the ISO 30's tooling.......em....well..... I think I'll be sticking to the R8.... and nope I only have a 2HP motor and even though I think I read somewhere in the manual of my VFD that it has the option of PID or closed loop so as to position the spindle, well at present that is really not at the top of my list.......and me well I like simple too so I'll stick with the R8 for my ATC too it will be plenty "heavy duty" enough for my projects... and thanks for the advice on the 15degree A/C bearings too...:cheers:

[ihavenofish]

"Prices on all tool holders is about the same - you can now get 5 ISO30, BT30, R8 or clone TTS style ER chucks for around $100-120 USD." - I'd be really curious what you're basing this one. I've never seen ANY 30-taper tool holder, much less a collet chuck, for less than about $60 each. Even R8s are at least $30 each. The only "TTS" ER chucks I've seen anywhere near that cheap are the Chinese clones, which are NOT ATC-compatible.

Regards,
Ray L.

YS (china) on ebay has LOTS in the $25-$35 range. claimed to balanced to 12k as well. im sure they wont be the best thing ever, but more than adequate for the machine.

[Mad Welder]

Thanks for that ihavenofish!

[FannBlade]

I'm getting pretty excited with your build. ATC....? I hate you even more then before!

Finally got back on mine and hope to have some pics up tomorrow.

[Mad Welder]

I'm getting pretty excited with your build. ATC....? I hate you even more then before!

Finally got back on mine and hope to have some pics up tomorrow.

"I hate you even more then before!" ha priceless

Nice to hear you're back

and don't hold your breath for the ATC the only reason I'm talking about this now is, as I'm at the belt drive stage I may as well fit what ever spindle I intend to use in the future for the ATC so I can at least finish the pulleys project….. but I've a lot of other stuff to finish before that........because as my build is a work in progress.... and I use it for hobby projects whilst I'm building it, I still am oiling the ways by hand as that stage is still unfinished…. I have a little GCode programme which I run before I machine anything and I add the oil to the ways by hand as that’s running and also I add oil intermittently to the ways as a long programme is machining too...now that's a major PITA so I may resume work on that as the head is disassembled…….and I must fit covers to the BallScrews, finish the wiring properly, fit a sliding door to stop me getting a shower (in coolant) every time I run a programme, make a cover for the steppers and.. and… and………

[BobWarfield]

YS (china) on ebay has LOTS in the $25-$35 range. claimed to balanced to 12k as well. im sure they wont be the best thing ever, but more than adequate for the machine.

Bad news for BT30 lovers--I bought a set of 4 of these YS holders and the runout was terrible. It ranged from 0.0007", which is the barely tolerable to 0.0022", which is totally unacceptible. The two in the middle were both over 0.001", which I also regard as unacceptible.

Think of the runout as additive to your chipload, then think about what your typical chiploads are. Changing the chipload by 0.001" is a LOT. We're talking short tool life, broken tools (imagine adding 0.001" chipload to your 1/8" cutter), poor surface finish, and cats and dogs living together. Real wrath of G*d stuff. (Sorry, who doesn't like Ghostbusters?)

I bought a Techniks ER holder and the runout was about 0.0004", which is the spec that YS quotes but can't seem to achieve.

I'm running these in a Tormach BT30 cartridge spindle which seems like a great deal. The runout on its taper was 0.00012 to 0.00014-ish.

When I get the cartridge mounted and running, I'm going to do a skim cut on the ER taper inside these YS holders and see if they can be cleaned up. I tried swapping collet nuts and collets and it was to no avail.

OTOH, the runout did vary by which of the 2 ways I engaged the drive dogs. I can see I'll be marking holders and the spindle so that becomes repeatable.

Unless the YS holders can be cleaned up, it looks like BT30 holders go for $60-80 to get ones I can live with. The R8's seem to be easier to come by acceptible levels of runout. Probably just takes more competition to get some better quality control on the BT's.

Cheers,

BW

[Mad Welder]

Hi Bob thanks for checking in here and as always thanks too for the interesting and informative feed back........my own build progress hasn't moved an inch or even 0.0001" since my last post......life and finances kinda getting in the way of hobbies boo hoo

I'm happy with my spindle run out so I'm going to postpone a spindle upgrade for the present... but I am going to try to convert my MT2 to either full PDB or "manual quick change" not sure if anyone has attempted this before either but as always I'll post any updates here and if it's successful all drawings.

[Mad Welder]

Hi Bob thanks for checking in here and as always thanks too for the interesting and informative feed back........my own build progress hasn't moved an inch or even 0.0001" since my last post......life and finances kinda getting in the way of hobbies boo hoo

I'm happy with my spindle run out so I'm going to postpone a spindle upgrade for the present... but I am going to try to convert my MT2 to either full PDB or "manual quick change" not sure if anyone has attempted this before either but as always I'll post any updates here and if it's successful all drawings.

[gcofieldd]

Mad Welder I have been looking through your thread and was wondering how you removed the collar with the magnets used for the tachometer which is mounted to the gear assembly? I am trying to do an R8 spindle conversion on my Optimum BF20 and need to remove that piece so I can get the retaining clip off.

Just a heads up it took me 7 months to get the parts for the conversion from Grizzly.

Thanks

[Mad Welder]

Hi there gcofieldd. ...welcome.:wave: the tachometer collar basically is pressed on without excessive force and I used large flat head screwdriver might be an idea to protect the alloy casting with a cloth over the screwdriver head and just lever the housing up and off but you won't get it off on the first attempt unless you have a bearing pullers at your disposal......so after each leveraging turn the spindle 180degrees and leveraging again with the screwdriver try again it will work it's way up and off.........

Hope this helps......

[gcofieldd]

Hey Mad Welder, thank you for the reply and the welcome! I ended up getting a pulley puller and using the spindle feed handle to pop it off. It worked surprisingly well. Also, I found this spindle replacement that I have not seen mentioned on the forum that may be interesting:

Optimun Werkzeugwechsler - USOVO.de

It uses an SK20 tool holder.

[Mad Welder]

..........Also, I found this spindle replacement that I have not seen mentioned on the forum that may be interesting:

Optimun Werkzeugwechsler - USOVO.de

It uses an SK20 tool holder.

Thanks for the link....:cheers:

[Mad Welder]

Hey there guys I've been in a bit of a "doing nothing period... " for the past many weeks after I stripped the machine head and spindle and made out my parts list prices and realized oops the finances weren't there (sorry for my lack of enthusiasm in any thread that I've been active in) so I simply left everything disassembled until yesterday. ....seems I got a bit of inspiration after replying to gcofieldd during the past week so thanks there gcofieldd I'll post a few pics or video tomorrow. .but I simply have to postpone the spindle upgrade and AC bearing upgrade for a bit but at least I got to run the spindle this evening under belt drive alone with the gear assembly removed......having a wee bit of silly Mach spindle stuff and hope to resolve it tomorrow. ..

[Mad Welder]

I seem to have the electronic gremlins back again….and I’m not sure why but after a spindle calibration with the correct pulley ratio and motor min/max RPM speed I seem to have lost control of my spindle speed within Mach, when my spindle is controlled by Mach I simply get full on all the time no matter what “S” number is inputted within MDI….I spent a bit of time with different configuration setups within Mach and also altered between PWM and Step/DIR and still no difference so after a few frustrating and wasted hours I simply just reconfigured my setup within Mach so that Mach just controls on/off M3/M5 (respectively) and I use the VFD keypad to increase or decrease the spindle RPM…and as I’m not using ATC at present this isn’t a problem…..just a PITA

Using the BF20 stock gear assembly, I removed the lower section, and I’m not sure if I have the correct terminology here but I parted off this section that has the spindle pattern already ‘broached’….also I parted off the upper section and turned down the ‘broached’ section to press fit into the upper section and this I pressed back into the upper bearing (so basically I used the upper stock gear assembly section as a collar) and this also was the stock housing where I had originally mounted my pulleys so it reduced a bit of turning work……but after running it today I recon this new setup isn’t good enough because the side loading/driving force from the motor puts too much pressure on just one (Upper) bearing so I recon I need to turn down a new shaft which incorporates the second or lower bearing mount (to increase stiffness) or to reduce the side loading force induced by the belt driven from the motor pulley…….

and I know the photos show a lot of machined filings or ‘metal dust’ but I assure you the parts were clean where it matters before assembly….and you can also see a sheen of surface rust built up on the Z axis saddle after a lack of use but this is also of insignificance as its only “cosmetic” as nothing comes in contact with this surface as I have extended my Y axis travel…..

[Mad Welder]

I'm not sure if anyone has carried out my latest mod, but if like me you've upgraded the motor to a three phase motor it does kinda look ridiculous sitting there on the spindle head......but I’ve removed the large stock electrical junction box, lowered the electrical fitting into the recessed that lies directly under the stock box, and tomorrow I’ll machine a new cover plate 7mm thick (0.275”), and this replaces the motor stock box which measures 43mm (1.6940”)…….and I hope to post the finished mod pics tomorrow…

[FannBlade]

Lookin good Mad,glad to see you back at it.