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IndustryArena Forum > WoodWorking Machines > DIY CNC Router Table Machines > 2.2KW 220v Chinese spindle on 208v 3ph?
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    522

    2.2KW 220v Chinese spindle on 208v 3ph?

    I have a 2.2KW Chinese spindle, and a Hitachi X200 VFD. That VFD can take single-phase or 3-phase over a wide voltage range.

    I might install it in a location where there'd be 208v, 3-phase. I don't think there's 220v single-phase available. But 208v is a lower net voltage, I didn't think about that.

    The VFD will run ok, I don't have a question there. But will the spindle have enough voltage to actually reach its maximum rated speed with a 208v 3-ph source?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    398
    Speed is related to the frequency of the drive. That should not be a problem,
    Not sure if you will have the maximum power (torque) available. Other issue might be with higher currents that might be required overheating might be n issue.
    But then again I know little about motors, understand basic physics.
    Dave

  3. #3
    You'll be better off with. 3 phase input. The power of the spindle is derated when you use the Vfd with single phase input.

    Jon

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    1602
    It will work fine, as Dave mentioned the frequency controls the speed. In fact it is preferable to hook it up to 3PH if it is available.

    A VFD essentially converts to DC then converts back to AC at the set frequency. As long as the VFD is properly rated for your motor, it will be fine. A lot of people use the Hitachi VFDs with their Chinese spindles.

    bob

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    522
    Quote Originally Posted by dfmiller View Post
    Speed is related to the frequency of the drive. That should not be a problem,
    Not sure if you will have the maximum power (torque) available. Other issue might be with higher currents that might be required overheating might be n issue.
    But then again I know little about motors, understand basic physics.
    Dave
    Not exactly. Brushless motors do run at the frequency of the drive, as long as there is enough voltage. All brushless motors act as brushless generators, creating a Back EMF voltage simply because they're turning, and the BEMF voltage is proportional to speed.

    At some speed, the BEMF is equal to the supply voltage of the drive, and the motor will not be able to go faster. If the drive were to simply increase the frequency slowly, torque would drop to zero and it would slip out of sync and stall.

    Same reason a DC motor goes slower at reduced voltages, really.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    24216
    The difference between 220 1ph and 208 3ph is probably marginal, as the 3ph supply to the motor is reconstituted from a DC source, the 3ph peak DC would be around 294vdc and the 1 ph 220 would be around 310vdc, BUT the DC derived from three phase has far less ripple than the rectified 1ph, where the ripple is =100% before filtering.
    The DC derived from 3ph is far more efficient for the same voltage due to the very small comparative ripple than that of 1ph.
    While we are talking VFD's the standard induction motor can never reach synchronism as mentioned, increase the frequency and the motor will increase rpm, but always at around 4~7 cycles below applied frequency.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    398
    Quote Originally Posted by MechanoMan View Post
    Not exactly. Brushless motors do run at the frequency of the drive, as long as there is enough voltage. All brushless motors act as brushless generators, creating a Back EMF voltage simply because they're turning, and the BEMF voltage is proportional to speed.

    At some speed, the BEMF is equal to the supply voltage of the drive, and the motor will not be able to go faster. If the drive were to simply increase the frequency slowly, torque would drop to zero and it would slip out of sync and stall.

    Same reason a DC motor goes slower at reduced voltages, really.
    The OP is talking about a 3 phase AC motor.
    Dave

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