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Thread: ATC Slide

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  1. #121
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    40
    Richard,
    Like Pete said, you're sure gonna have fun with that ATC. You'll have to be careful not to fall asleep, since you won't be needed anymore after the "start" is hit. Beautiful job on the ATC.
    endo

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    40
    Richard,
    Like Pete said, you're sure gonna have fun with that ATC. You'll have to be careful not to fall asleep, since you won't be needed anymore after the "start" is hit. Beautiful job on the ATC.
    endo

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1632

    Shakes

    Since I built my cover I have a little wobble when my cylinder extends or retracts and it comes to a stop. Doesn't do it without the cover so the added weight and inertia gets it. I'm not sure it will really hurt anything other than it bugs me. Tool change still works fine.

    My current set up is 11ga steel, the cover is cover is a 14" diameter with a 4" skirt. 11ga steel weighs 5# per square foot.

    Top Cover without skirt is 14" or 7" radius = 7x7=49 x Pi = 154 sq. inches / 144 = 1.1 square feet = 5.35#

    Skirt is 44" Long (14 x pi) and 4" tall so that is 176 sq.in. / 144 = 1.22 sqft = 6.11#

    Total of 2.3 sq.ft. = 11.46# Wow, didn't think it was that heavy.

    Using 16 ga steel (2.5 sqft) it will drop it to 5.5#
    Using 18 ga steel (2.0 sqft) it would be 4.6#

    Or using 14ga Aluminum (0.9# sqft) it drops it to 2 pounds.

    Hopefully I calculated all this correctly.?.

    So I can remanufacture the cover and fix it or I can beef up / gusset the bracket or make a new one from 1/4".


    Aluminum would look sweet. I just ordered a Hobart Ironman 230 with Spoolgun but I hadn't welded Aluminum yet.

    Which way to go.....?

    Richard

  4. #124
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    3920

    Really nice work!

    Quote Originally Posted by rwskinner View Post
    Being creative and stubborn I finally got that 4" flat bar wrapped around the tray cover. I need to start making the door next and make sure it works then sand blast and paint.

    I welded one end to some 12" pipe then slowly wrapped it around and formed it with a rubber dead blow hammer.

    Believe or not, it actually came out pretty round. Surprised me.


    Richard
    I keep various round things around the shop just for this type of usage. A hammer can go a long ways when you are tool poor! It is surprising the first time you do it but then you are free to make round things for whatever you need, pipe hangrs no problem, light baffles no problem, straps for a tank cart no problem, a hammer and a torch (sometimes) can set you free.

    As to your paint job, it looks like hunter green is popular at your house too!

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2580

    Richard....

    I gotta say that you have really done a fine outstanding job with this ATC. Congratulations on being the first person I know of to accomplish this task on our beloved RF45's. I can understand your concern about the weight. Quite honestly I was a little concerned about the overall weight of the assembly out on the side of the column like that. It does kinda stick way out there and once full of a dozen toolholders will be quite heavy. I would say that ANYTHING you can do to lighten it up would be advantageous. The cover need not be very thick at all and I would say maybe some 1/8 inch aluminum plate would be more than adequate and pretty lightweight. You might have a time welding it with a spool gun and a mig unit but seeing your skills I kinda doubt it. I would personally tig weld it together. Have you considered making some sort of counterweight out the other side of the machine to balance the weight from the ATC side. I guess once you get it all finalized you would want to retram your column to make sure it is not getting pulled over a bit. It would almost have to be deflecting somewhat. Have you weighed the whole thing at all? It sure is heavy duty and looks like it works quite well and I am jealous as hell your setup is working now. I wonder if it is necessary for the slide to have to retract that far away from the millhead. I mean if you have the covers and the retracting door it really does not need to travel more than enough to clear the millhead adequately. If you look at the ATC done by Dave decaussin it really does not travel that far at all. Unless you are trying to just get it the hell out of the way for putting large pieces on the table it is not necessary. The columns on these machines are pretty stout but if you have ever really tried to adjust your tram and played with shims you can see how just a little tilt can throw things off nevermind a large weight hanging out there in space. Ya know what I mean? I think you have a great design and it is certainly well executed but I would probably look into some sort of counter weight or maybe trying to lower the overall weight and the distance it travels out there. I sincerely hope this does not come across sounding like a downer on your build because it is not. You have made one of the finest if not the very finest ones I have ever seen anywhere. Peace

    Pete

  6. #126
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    251
    Yes a very nice clone of the Tormach atc, kudos man. great job.
    walt

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1632
    I had like 5 gallons of Industrial Hunter Green but's it's getting low and I started using spray cans. I sure don't want another 5 gallons. I was trying to use it all before it went bad

    Richard

    Quote Originally Posted by wizard View Post
    As to your paint job, it looks like hunter green is popular at your house too!

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1632
    Thanks Pete. Really the column isn't moving that I can tell but that thin bracket I made has a quick quiver when the slide comes to a stop. It didn't do that before even full of tools until I added the cover. Tram was good. I did that before I calibrate the tool changer. I guess I could check it to make sure it's not moving much.

    I know Hoss had that huge ATC sucker on the side of the X2 and it was braced off the column. Don't know if he had issues or not.

    I have other issues now as well. My optical limit switch doesn't have any conditioning and my home keeps moving enough that the tools aren't lining up very well. My honeywell switch did great but it was bulky so I put my H21A1 Optical switch in there wired directly to the BOB. I think if I put a cap and Schmidt trigger in there that will make it repeatable or I may just stick another PMDX170 on there because I know I get within 0.0002 and half that most of the time with it.

    It was doing great before I started tweaking it That's okay, I know how to fix the homing issue and the quiver issue I think won't be to bad.

    Welding on the edge of 14ga with a spoolgun may not be much fun. I debated and almost bought a tig but elected not to. I can use the larger mig more around here. My Hobart 180 has been used and used and used so this will be a small step up.

    Know anyone that tig welds for a decent price? I can cut everything out, pre-form, and tack weld it first.

    Richard

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2580

    Richard....

    I dunno about Hoss's setup but I do know that my machine is affected by the column tram and it surprised me just how little it took to get it to move.

    As far as the Tig welder goes, I have a commercial 325 amp HF tig unit here and I also have a mig welder as well as a arc unit. I honestly could probably sell all of the other welders as I basically never use anything but the tig. There are times when the speed of the mig comes in handy but nothing gives me the control or quality of welds that the tig affords me. I also have a stinger setup that I can hook to the Tig and use it as an AC/DC arc welder. I am actually seriously considering purchasing ANOTHER tig welder as my current machine lacks the pulsing features of some of the newer machines. I have been doing a LOT of custom fabrication lately and I get a lot of folks wanting me to do Aluminum welding. I can do Aluminum pretty good with this machine but having a pulsing tig would make working with thin sheet aluminum easier. Quite honestly I would do it for you as I can stitch it together and then fusion weld the thin sheet but I would probably want to have some scrap pieces to practice and get my settings right on. I am actually pretty decent with the tig but thus far I have not gotten a ton of call for sheet aluminum welding. Done a lot of stainless sheet welding tho and of course steel. I quite enjoy tig welding...

    It sure looks and seems to work nice tho. If it is just a little shake I am quite sure that some of the professional VMC's exhibit the same thing when they move into place. Perhaps working on the valving of the buffers/bumpers at the limits of travel would go further to making it work smooth. Peace

    Pete

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    605
    I would go aluminum or plastic for the covers. Plastic may be a challenge to assemble together, but doable with some creativity. Aluminum would look nice and you just need to hone your skills to weld plate to sheet. That separates the men from the boys in my experience.

    I can also concur that once you TIG weld you will never go back to MIG welding unless it's for absolute speed. TIG welding is a true joy. You watch the metal melt, can see the penetration and control the puddle. On steel it is perfectly quiet and relaxing, with no spitting or sputtering. You should look at the HTP or ThermalArc machines. Incredible digital control of the wave and decent price. I'm using an expensive Miller Dynasty DX at work right now and I don't like it as much as my ThermalArc machine, which cost about half.
    PM-45 CNC conversion built/run/sold.

  11. #131
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1186
    Quote Originally Posted by rwskinner View Post
    Thanks Pete. Really the column isn't moving that I can tell but that thin bracket I made has a quick quiver when the slide comes to a stop. It didn't do that before even full of tools until I added the cover. Tram was good. I did that before I calibrate the tool changer. I guess I could check it to make sure it's not moving much.

    I know Hoss had that huge ATC sucker on the side of the X2 and it was braced off the column. Don't know if he had issues or not.

    I have other issues now as well. My optical limit switch doesn't have any conditioning and my home keeps moving enough that the tools aren't lining up very well. My honeywell switch did great but it was bulky so I put my H21A1 Optical switch in there wired directly to the BOB. I think if I put a cap and Schmidt trigger in there that will make it repeatable or I may just stick another PMDX170 on there because I know I get within 0.0002 and half that most of the time with it.

    It was doing great before I started tweaking it That's okay, I know how to fix the homing issue and the quiver issue I think won't be to bad.

    Welding on the edge of 14ga with a spoolgun may not be much fun. I debated and almost bought a tig but elected not to. I can use the larger mig more around here. My Hobart 180 has been used and used and used so this will be a small step up.

    Know anyone that tig welds for a decent price? I can cut everything out, pre-form, and tack weld it first.

    Richard
    I TIG..... I'm in NC though....be happy to do it for ya if ya ship it. No charge.

    Chris

  12. #132
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1185
    I would not Mig much of it at all. If you use light gauge aluminum then you will have a really hard time with most any wire feed.

    I would do a few spot welds at most and then use some strong cocking or glue to fill the joints.

    Aluminum glues really well and for this use you want a sealed enclosure and not too much strength.

    Grate job on the ATC BTW, Is their a full speed video coming someday?

  13. #133
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1632

    Home Switch

    ArizonaVideo, yes, once I get this stupid homing issue fix I will do some full speed videos. I changed the logic a little in my macro. Instead of predetermined dwells on the Extend and Retract now I have a timeout set and I just loop waiting for the cylinder switch. As soon as the Extend or retract switch is triggered then I continue on, if I time out before then I get a warning message and things stop.

    This trimmed a few more seconds off the tool change and still allows me adjusting stuff without changing the dwell and macro.


    Chris, thanks for the welding offer.... I should have bought a tig, heck, learning one more thing wouldn't kill me, I don't think!

    Homing....
    I'm still fighting homing position. That huge Honeywell roller switch worked perfect everytime. I ended up running my optical interruptor switch thru a CNC4PC C3 Index card and thought it would help but I still get very inaccurate homing. I played with debounce and everything with no luck.

    I think the H21A1 is not going to cut it because I can sit there and watch the led changing states after the machine is homed.

    My PMDX170 will not be in until next week sometime.

    Richard

  14. #134
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    715
    I had similar issues with my c3 cards and homing switches until I used shielded cable. Debounce was a bandaid and didn't help 80% of the time.

  15. #135
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1632

    Fixed

    Chris, funny you said that because early this morning I went tinkering around and the first thing O found is I was in a hurry I guess and didn't hook up the drain wire. It was a tempoary test and I guess I just forgot. That made a lot of difference as well as my screen.

    I copied a modified screen over and forgot to check the button scripts. The old screen was using G0 moves for the C instead of G53 so my offsets were messed up.

    I'm posting another vid here in a second.

    Richard

  16. #136
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1632

    Video

    Here is another video. The morning sunlight is in the window and the camera keeps adjusting for it so it's not too good.

    10 Position Tool Changer - YouTube

    Richard

  17. #137
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1632
    A little better with shop lights turned off


    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cj-bSJ_Wc6s&context=C3abc472ADOEgsToPDskJ5cUDurS4tqVt 7GzmNAiGU"]Another ATC Video - YouTube[/ame]

  18. #138
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1804
    You have set a high standard for any of us to try and meet.
    Fantastic.
    Art
    AKA Country Bubba (Older Than Dirt)

  19. #139
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1632
    I based it off the Tormach but it was from watching their videos. I couldn't get a lot of detail. Their Installation manual did not have the parts detail so I wasn't able to use anything like that.

    I'm sure theirs is much nicer than mine but what the heck, I just wanted to see if I could do it. Lots of little parts to machine.

    Richard

    Quote Originally Posted by waltpermenter View Post
    Yes a very nice clone of the Tormach atc, kudos man. great job.
    walt

  20. #140
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    141
    Quote Originally Posted by rwskinner View Post

    .....
    My Flow control valves came in and I mounted those, much smoother both ways now. ....
    ...

    Richard
    Do you have the fitting part numbers used on your draw bar solenoid valve? I see some quick release couplings used on the input and 2 outputs. I also see some type of flow valve used on the 2 exhaust ports. I just got the same solenoid from Ebay and it works well on my Fabco cylinder. However, the barbed NPT hose fittings I bought are huge.

    thx

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