[autotechsteve]

I have taken the outer panels off of the mill in the past couple of days. The plan is to get it taken apart, clean everything, fix what needs to be fixed and reassemble it. Tear down has gone smooth so far, just messy. I did find that industrial floor cleaner and a pressure washer will do wonders when it comes to the plastic housings on these old machines.







First big question I have is can I take the lower tray off of the mill without a lot of headache. It has a fairly thick layer of sealant where it meets the base. I could clean it where it is but I had such good success getting the sides clean I would really like to give the lower tray the same treatment. I would also be replacing the sealant, which I am sure is original and couldn't hurt.






Next issue I ran into is the moving side cover for the tool carousel. Sorry for the terminology, I am just not sure of the technical name but it is the curved door that hides the taper portion of the tools when the carousel moves away from the spindle. The door is there but the mechanism that makes it open and close appears to be gone, why I don't know. I can see the slot on the rear side of the door that I am sure is part of the mechanism but the rest is just not there. In the picture the slot can be seen just behind the cable. Does anyone have any pictures of the correct setup or any other info that will help me sort it out?





Next issue is a random hose, blocked off, at the top of the machine next to the spindle motor. It is a plastic line, bent over itself and zip tied to seal it off. It looks to be too big to be way lube. It comes out of the service loop and I have not been able to find an empty fitting where it might go. I have not traced it back to its origins just yet, figure I would toss a picture out here and see if someone recognized it.





On another one of my posts it had a picture of the mill as I was buying it and someone commented on the tarp covering the z axis ways. Well I found out the the way covers are not on the machine, they were badly mangled and showed up in a box with the mill when it was delivered. I have 3 pieces of the cover, one piece not usable and the other two are badly bent. Aside from the three pieces I have I am not sure what all is supposed to be there. Does anyone know where I can find a whole cover, new or used, or does anyone have any pictures or other info?





And last but not least. The wiring to the door switches is pretty bad. Would it be horrible to take the switches out of the circuit eliminating them. Are you guys disabling the door alarm when you run your mills? I know safety wise that's a bad idea but I am trying to come up with a game plan while it is apart.

Steve

[Haas__man]

you are looking for something that looks like this.
it is a folded piece of sheet metal - which is bolted on to the toolchanger.
there is a pin on the bottom that locates in the slot on the door.
as the tool changer moves, the door swings open/closed.
Sorry I don't have an actual photo.

hope this helps

[underthetire]

Door locks, sure you can remove them if your the only one running the machine. If you have employees, and someone gets hurt your toast. Big OSHA and ANSI problems with "removing a factory supplied safety device". Whole bunch of regs on machine tools.

[miljnor]

OMG. I really wish all the fear mongers would stop with the warnings!

Anyone who doesn't know that you can get in trouble by bypassing a saftey mechanism is either too stupid to live or well, too stupid to live.

So quit stating the obvious and keep your fear of the "man" to yourself. God help me from those wishing to save me from myself. Because Obviously I can't do it..and we need to litigate everything into uslessness.

rant over....

I've always wanted to get one of these old machines and refurbish it so I will be watching all your progress.

How much did you get the machine for?

[underthetire]

OMG. I really wish all the fear mongers would stop with the warnings!

Anyone who doesn't know that you can get in trouble by bypassing a saftey mechanism is either too stupid to live or well, too stupid to live.

So quit stating the obvious and keep your fear of the "man" to yourself. God help me from those wishing to save me from myself. Because Obviously I can't do it..and we need to litigate everything into uslessness.

rant over....

I've always wanted to get one of these old machines and refurbish it so I will be watching all your progress.

How much did you get the machine for?

He asked about bypassing them. It's not fear mongering, it the friggen law dumb ass. How is an employee supposed to know he bypassed them? And even if an employee knows he did, it would still never cover his ass in court.

[Machineit]

OMG. I really wish all the fear mongers would stop with the warnings!

Anyone who doesn't know that you can get in trouble by bypassing a saftey mechanism is either too stupid to live or well, too stupid to live.

So quit stating the obvious and keep your fear of the "man" to yourself. God help me from those wishing to save me from myself. Because Obviously I can't do it..and we need to litigate everything into uslessness.

rant over....

I've always wanted to get one of these old machines and refurbish it so I will be watching all your progress.

How much did you get the machine for?

There are very few if any people here who would disagree with the opinion that all of the safety systems are far more trouble than they are worth.

But, that being said there is a difference between small shops who are not under continuous scrutiny from the business police and the big shops that deal with dozens of operators who can be shall we say "opportunistic."

I do not know of one shop that has removed switches and disabled systems, "IF" they can disable them with a change in setting 51. That makes it an operator decision. Taking the switches and such off would be considered a shop decision.

The problem comes from large shops that have many employees. You always have the problem of employees that will game the system or are just incompetent. For those, I would not disable anything.

For me, I make my own decisions and take my own chances. I have had jobs tht ran 12 parts at once and only had a cycle time of 30 seconds. I will disable the doors for that!

If you have an older machine that can use the 51 Off setting, I would put the system in order, then disable.

P.S.: I don't think I would buy a new machine at this time----------You know why.

Mike

[underthetire]

Well put. Do I like door interlocks, he'll no. I just don't think it's prudent to tell a guy sure, go ahead and disable your door interlocks without telling the facts. I've been called in on numerous accidents, and about the first thing insurance, lawyers, OSHA ask is are there door interlocks and are they functional. Only once were door door interlocks disabled that would have made any difference in the outcome. After the month or two long investigation, then the crime scene clean up guys get there any totally destroy the machine. Those are some harsh chemicals!

[miljnor]

I understand all (or most) of the complexities of the business environment....I just hate the attitude that has prevailed in the last 50 years on liability and safety. And really hate people that need to spout how some watchdog is going to get me...They probably will eventually. But we are all big boys (girls?) and go into this eyes wide open.

It's like the old one about defending yourself, well it may be illegal in several places in the world but I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6. Someone never needs to remind me of the injustice of bureaucracy, as I am not a 12 year old anymore.

[underthetire]

Not to disagree, just playing the devils advocate, what about all the electricians that died around the turn of the century, it was a staggering number. OSHA, training, and safety policies probably dropped that figure 99%. Same with iron workers, they hated the idea of having a harness on. Machines aren't manual any longer, they also don't run at 300ipm any longer. Do I like the latest door locks, no. But I also don't want my hands in the machine when it jumps to 2500ipm rapids in a tenth of a second. I sure don't move that fast any longer. So it's not just about liability, it's about worker safety. Do I think the operator should have the choice to disable interlocks, sure, if they know the risks, and are well trained on the equipment.

[Machineit]

What is not understood by most people these days is that the more government tries to protect people form injury at work and other times, high fat diets, sugary snacks, smoking, eggs, coffee and every other possible things that can hurt them--------the less they take care of themselves. Government is causing the injuries and other problems that they are trying to eliminate.

We all know that common sense is not common any longer. Perhaps we should call it rare sense now. The simple reason for this is government. When government was just on the fringe and not trying to direct every aspect of our lives, we paid attention to things around us. Now most just stumble through life and look to sue someone if we make a mistake.

Everyone please aim for a day we can repeal many of the regs that are in place. I don't know about you, but I can take care of myself. If I screw up, I'll take my medicine and admit it.

Mike

[Machineit]

Not to disagree, just playing the devils advocate, what about all the electricians that died around the turn of the century, it was a staggering number. OSHA, training, and safety policies probably dropped that figure 99%. Same with iron workers, they hated the idea of having a harness on. Machines aren't manual any longer, they also don't run at 300ipm any longer. Do I like the latest door locks, no. But I also don't want my hands in the machine when it jumps to 2500ipm rapids in a tenth of a second. I sure don't move that fast any longer. So it's not just about liability, it's about worker safety. Do I think the operator should have the choice to disable interlocks, sure, if they know the risks, and are well trained on the equipment.

DO NOT PUT YOUR BODY INSIDE THE MACHINE WHILE RUNNING. "NO" EMPLOYER WILL TELL YOU TO DO OTHERWISE!!!!!!

SIMPLE ENOUGH?!??!?!?!

No regulation needed.

[underthetire]

Tell that to the guy that's missing most of his hand from a 6" shear mill. Thought he hit tool clamp but hit spindle forward by mistake. 6000 rpm while still holding the cutter. A working door interlock would have avoided that. He had been machining for 20 years. Accidents happen. Another reason I don't like those single tool eject buttons btw.

[Machineit]

Tell that to the guy that's missing most of his hand from a 6" shear mill. Thought he hit tool clamp but hit spindle forward by mistake. 6000 rpm while still holding the cutter. A working door interlock would have avoided that. He had been machining for 20 years. Accidents happen. Another reason I don't like those single tool eject buttons btw.

We all have sympathies for those who get hurt, none more than myself, but you can not prevent all of them.

The point I am making is that the more people feel safe, the more mistakes they make. If you push the wrong button, no interlock would have prevented that and you probably did it because you felt "SAFE."

Sorry to be so blunt, but I have been around a while, 64 years, and I understand human nature and COMMON sense.

Mike

[miljnor]

He asked about bypassing them. It's not fear mongering, it the friggen law dumb ass. How is an employee supposed to know he bypassed them? And even if an employee knows he did, it would still never cover his ass in court.

dumb ass? nice.

his machine man, pretty sure he knows the options, and common sense will tell you that your responsible for you own actions (ie disabling a door lock).

Just like when you speed you know that there is a possibility of a ticket right? and further that if you crash and hurt someone while speeding your going to be in deeper ****. But I bet you don't have someone tell you that every time you blow past a speed limit right?... kinda the same thing. It's all obvious.

And as for the failing to use harness on electricians. I'm sure it prevented lots of deaths and injuries. There are probably still lots of jobs out there that are super dangerous and nothing can be done to make them as safe as a desk job...but that's why that job pays better...and someone will always take the risk...and its their choice....we shouldn't, as a society, try to litigate what people will choose, nor should we pick up the tab when it go's south.

Notice there was no foul language. It's a discussion...and we shouldn't probably take over this thread....so I apologize for that.

[autotechsteve]

I suppose I waited a couple of days too long to get back on the computer and check the thread. I love forums because they are an invaluable wealth of knowledge but unfortunately I believe a lot is lost in a text only conversation. Everyone has the best intentions and information but because it is text on a screen and not face to face the mannerisms of normal conversation are not there. Everyone means well, it just doesn't always seem that way to the other guy. It is my fault and I should have stated that I am the only operator at this time. That would have made a difference in my OP. I agree with everyone, I don't want to be preached to but I also want as much information as possible, even if it is repeated to me multiple times. Thank you all for any and all information.

Back to progress; :banana:

you are looking for something that looks like this.
it is a folded piece of sheet metal - which is bolted on to the toolchanger.
there is a pin on the bottom that locates in the slot on the door.
as the tool changer moves, the door swings open/closed.
Sorry I don't have an actual photo.

hope this helps

Thank you for the drawing, I talked to Haas today and they said the bracket and roller was in stock but I wasn't sure that was all I needed. According to your drawing, it is, so thank you, it definitely helped. :cheers:

Door locks, sure you can remove them if your the only one running the machine. If you have employees, and someone gets hurt your toast. Big OSHA and ANSI problems with "removing a factory supplied safety device". Whole bunch of regs on machine tools.

You know, I am not really sure what was going thru my head when I made the original comment about removing the door switches? My common sense on a vacation I guess. I am going to put it back to factory and not worry with disabling them. If it bothers me I can command the alarm off.


Well I have made a decent amount of progress over the past couple of days. I got the top off and clean, came out really well.




So well actually, I decided to take the lower tray off and clean it. I had a lot of people warn against it but I made up my mind. I started to chisel away the sealer only to find that it had been leaking after all. Good call on my part I guess. The kicker is that it will be a pain to get it off. It was sealed on the top and bottom. I brought home a windshield removal tool today. Maybe that will do the trick, I have not had a chance to give it a try yet. I also talked to has about the sealer. I planned to use 3M 5200 marine sealer but the techs at Haas said they are using Sikaflex 1A. It works out good too because it is a lot cheaper than the 5200 and I need a lot of it.

I started to clean up the side windows. I found that the 3M headlight restoration kit from an auto parts store works great. I took out a lot of the scratches and they polished up pretty well. I will get a couple of pictures tomorrow and put them up.

I got a price on a new door, left side is literally falling apart. The right side is OK so I guess it may have been replaced at some point in time.
I found out that the Z axis way cover is a total loss. New one is $350 from Haas.

I need to get new weatherstripping for the side windows but it only comes in a 50ft roll. I need about 15ft to do my machine so is there anyone out there that wants to split the cost of a roll. I figure for machines of this size, 50ft will do 3 machines, both sides. About $50 each, they want $3/ft and a 50ft minimum.

I found that the Y axis cable under the X axis cover is rubbed through. New cable is $150. Is it a good idea to put new sheathing on the old cable or is the factory sheathing that good and I should replace the cable?

Here is my parts list with part #'s for reference:
Y axis rear wiper 93-3018 $25.00
Doors 28-7219 $80.00 28-7220 $70.00
Weatherstrip 59-7120 $3/ft 50 ft min
Bracket 25-7288A $2.00
Roller 30-7423 $10.00
Y axis cable 32-2600 $150.00
Z axis cover 93-1906 $350.00
Sealant Sikaflex 1A
Way wipers 8ft pieces $30 per piece

Last but not least I have a random air hose blocked off near the spindle drive motor. You can see the line bent over and zip tied in the upper right corner of the picture. Not sure what it is for but here is a little better picture. I have looked around on the net and found that the spindle is air cooled from the compressed air lines. I can see from pictures of other machines that it looks like the air line is visible right under the cover only about 5 inches up from the bottom of the spindle. My machine does not have and such air lines or fittings. Is it possible that the air line is supposed to be for spindle cooling but my machine does not have that option?



Thanks again everyone and I will get a few more pictures up in the next couple of days.
Steve

[extanker59]

Man! That's a job and a half. Very interesting. Sorry I can't contribute anything other than that but you're in way deeper than I've ever been.
Thanks for this thread.

[miljnor]

Ya I agree, thanks....always wanted to see the older machine dis-assembled.

awesome so far.

[autotechsteve]

Another question while I am cleaning today. A lot of the covers and the door trim appear to be anodized black. The coating is coming off and rusting. Is is OK to paint the covers to prevent future rust and clean up the appearance or do they need to be anodized again? Thanks again guys!
Steve

[behindpropeller]

Another question while I am cleaning today. A lot of the covers and the door trim appear to be anodized black. The coating is coming off and rusting. Is is OK to paint the covers to prevent future rust and clean up the appearance or do they need to be anodized again? Thanks again guys!
Steve

If they are anodized, they are aluminum. If they are rusting, they are probably steel and powder coated.

Paint should not hurt your parts if they are rusting.

Tim

[autotechsteve]

If they are anodized, they are aluminum. If they are rusting, they are probably steel and powder coated.

Paint should not hurt your parts if they are rusting.

Tim

I thought they were aluminum too, because of the anodizing. So I grabbed a magnet and sure enough, their steel. I could be wrong about them originally being anodized but it sure looks like they were. I guess paint wouldn't hurt, I just don't want to find out after the fact that they should not be painted. I have a friend that can powder coat them for me too if I decide to go that route. Also, what about painting the undersides of the way covers to prevent future rust on them?

Steve