[Don Clement]

Don, I do not know the answer to your question. May be for the convenience to replace one tool to another.
Christian

Doesn't make sense to me as a TTS modified 3/4" shaft tool acts exactly like any other TTS toolholder.

Don

[concombrefrais]

If you need to replace your worn out endmill with a new one, it is faster with an endmill holder than with a collar. Not that I care about the issue in any way, just trying to help you getting it.

Doesn't make sense to me as a TTS modified 3/4" shaft tool acts exactly like any other TTS toolholder.

Don

[Don Clement]

"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig."

~Robert Heinlein

[tbaker2500]

Well, I bought a 2-piece 3/4" shaft collar from McMaster. It locks VERY firmly onto the 3/4" shaft of the 1" ball nose I bought. I marked the collar position, and did many tightens in the spindle. No collar slippage!

I was concerned that the collar hit the R8 spindle collet, since it extends slightly past the TTS spindle surface. So I did several z-axis repeatability tests, and found solid under 2 thousandths differences between each inserting the tool in the R8 spindle collet. Accurate enough for my job (since the machine has ~1.5 thou repeatability error.)

Nice easy solution. Thanks guys!

[WOTDesigns]

You can click here Milling | smithy.com and then click on tool holder set, it will open a window where you can chose a holder separately.
Don, I do not know the answer to your question. May be for the convenience to replace one tool to another.
Christian

THANK YOU for posting that link! I had been putting off ordering more set screw holders, but at that price I couldn't say no. Ordered 9 holders- with shipping it was only $15.33 each (almost 1/2 price of Tormach). Look forward to checking the run out on them.

[Don Clement]

THANK YOU for posting that link! I had been putting off ordering more set screw holders, but at that price I couldn't say no. Ordered 9 holders- with shipping it was only $15.33 each (almost 1/2 price of Tormach). Look forward to checking the run out on them.

Did you get a 3/4" TTS set screw holder?

[WOTDesigns]

yup. but it was more from curiosity than necessity. I'll post pics when they get here and compare TIR with Tormach set screw holders.

I ordered one 3/4, two 1/2, and six 3/8

[WOTDesigns]

FYI- I placed the order 5 hours ago and already received UPS tracking and half an hour later an email from smithy saying "it has left our facility already".

[zephyr9900]

Priddy, when you receive your holders please check on this statement from the Smithy tool holder popup window:

Tool holders are designed to "bottom out" on the face of the R8 collet, giving you a fixed height each time.

Do they really mean that or do the holders bottom out on the spindle face?

Thanks,

Randy

[WOTDesigns]

Priddy, when you receive your holders please check on this statement from the Smithy tool holder popup window:

Do they really mean that or do the holders bottom out on the spindle face?

Thanks,

Randy

Will do. The rep that I spoke with said that the biggest difference between their holders and the Tormach holders is that the "Tormach requires a precision ground R8 collet, but [the Smithy sold ones] are designed to work with any 3/4" collet"

Not sure what the actual result will be, but I should know monday. You will all know tuesday

[Don Clement]

Just because someone manufactures a product doesn’t mean it’s a good thing. Tormach doesn’t make a 3/4" set screw TTS holder. There is probably a good reason for that.

Don

[WOTDesigns]

I held off on posting until I could face the nose of my spindle to remove that error from the comparison.

I was expecting a (hopefully not too) cheap knock off of the Tormach TTS holders, but that isn't exactly what I got. I am 95% convinced these are made in the same factory on the same machines as the Tormach holders. the run out is identical, the fit feel and finish are about identical, even the laser engraving that says "TTS 3/8 is almost identical! same font, same resolution. Where it says SMITTY is a different font and resolution and not on the exact same line as "TTS 3/8".

It is the pre-atc geometry, so I doubt I'll order any more since I do plan on buying an ATC when I order my 1100. For half the price its a heck of a deal though.

I called Smithy and they are going to get in contact with the trading company they are getting them from after the Chinese new year to see if they can verify my suspensions.

Even the inspection tag rang a big bell in my mind as being the same but I'm not 100%.

The collar geometry is a few thou different, but perhaps the pre-atc Tormach one was too.

Box of boxes


SMITHY packaging


3/8, 1/2, 3/4


rear view


closer


inside 3/4 holder


a hand for reference


same great hand... different angle


SMITHY on the left, TORMACH on the right



3/4 requires a flat pretty high up on the shank


3/4" with beer can stain and razor for reference

[shred]

Have you tested the accuracy?

I notice Tormach highlights the "Genuine Tormach TTS" laser markings on their web site. Wonder if they found out just 'TTS' is too generic to trademark or something.

Each TTS product has been exclusively engineered and designed by Tormach and is subject to a comprehensive QA audit at the factory. Look for the Genuine Tormach TTS label to ensure quality and avoid careless imitations.

And poking around e-bay last night, you can get 10 ER-20 holders that look a whole lot like TTS (although the collar is not shown well) shipped out of Hong Kong for $100. I wonder how much runout they have?

[WOTDesigns]

Have you tested the accuracy?

I notice Tormach highlights the "Genuine Tormach TTS" laser markings on their web site. Wonder if they found out just 'TTS' is too generic to trademark or something.


And poking around e-bay last night, you can get 10 ER-20 holders that look a whole lot like TTS (although the collar is not shown well) shipped out of Hong Kong for $100. I wonder how much runout they have?

what do you mean by accuracy? They have the same run out on the tool (measured .1" & .75" from the holder) as the tormach set screw holders. I presume this is from the tool being pushed to one side by the screw as it remains the same at different lengths from the holder. I didn't test height repeatability because they are contacting the nose and will repeat beyond the perceived accuracy of my mill which is less than .0005" and I wind know where the error is coming from if there accurately were error.

The TIR reading was .0005", but I dont consider it a hard number since the DTI is not calibrated. The DTI is VERY repeatable though so using it for comparison is a fair tool. I removed and replaced 12 tools last night 4 times each and got the same readings off each tool I got the last time I checked it. I believe the numbers are close at the very least as my mill produces correctly sized parts and the indicator agrees to within a tenth with my jog/step moves.

as for the er20s I'm not sure I would take that risk. I figured I have roughing tools that don't need the accuracy as much as others, so if the smithy holders such they can still be used. anything I put in the er20 WANTS/NEEDS accuracy. .015 em in a holder with .001 run out can be bad... and expensive.

[WOTDesigns]

lol, think I found the 10 er20 holders for $100. its also $50 shipping and since I can see the shank starting to taper above the collar my money is on no recess for the r8 collet.

[beanbag]

This is what happens when you (a company) have a Chinese factory do your work. Gets copied and sold for a lower price.

[Don Clement]

The ¾” TTS set screw holder probably was not copied because Tormach doesn’t sell them or they were copied but Tormach made a decision not to sell them. In any case is there a patent to prevent copying?
I was at the Bowers museum on Sunday to see the Terracotta Warrior exhibit. Bowers Museum - Orange County's Finest China was producing interchangeable parts (see bronze trigger mechanism) 2200 years ago during the Qin Dynasty. Crossbow trigger mechanisms were found 2000 miles apart that had interchangeable parts.
Don



It might be noted that the ~8000 Terracotta Warriors were individually made, not mass produced cast copies. Each one is a unique sculpture with unique features that was painted and lacquered. However when the Terracotta Warriors were unearthed the moisture content changed and the painted lacquered finish disintegrated sometimes within minutes.
Also one of the paints, Chinese Purple used on the Terracotta Warriors was one of only three known to use synthetic pigments until the industrial revolution. http://ssrl.slac.stanford.edu/resear...nesepurple.pdf

[WOTDesigns]

thats neat, I think I finally need to go check that museum out.

Don, you wouldn't happen to have one of the old style set screw holders would you? I'd be cert curious to swing by and compare it to the smithy.

[shred]

You don't have to have a China factory make it to be knocked off, but it does make it easier for a few 'extras' to go out the back door. The trouble comes when the factory doesn't know the meaning of 'scrap' and everything they make gets sold to somebody depending on what spec it does or doesn't meet.