[Bob La Londe]

As a side note: Since I tied down all the shields for the encoders and switched the servo drivers to HEDS mode the mill just screams. I have it set at 250 IPM and pretty high acceleration and the drivers blink, but I never get a warning light much less a fault. I suspect it was tying down the shields that did the trick. I'll try it with HEDS mode switched off when I get a chance.

[Bob La Londe]

Not going to be able to play with this for a while. Sure I could use the 12" screen and a mouse, but the 15" won't be in until next week. In the mean time I have a gate to hang for part of an access system, a club fishing tournament over the weekend, video system to complete next week, and two alarm systems to get up and running. Darn day job. If people would just give me their money without my having to work for it I could play in the shop all the time. LOL. The video and access customers have more jobs lined up for me too. I might actually have a busy summer this year.

[FannBlade]

Looking forward to the updates.

[Bob La Londe]

The 15" touchscreen arrived the other day. It would not work. It was a nice sharp monitor, but the touchscreen didn't work. The computer recognized that it was plugged in, but no touch functions work. Since it was the same manufacturer and used the same driver as the old one (that did work) it was clearly defective. The seller refunded promptly so I ordered a new one instead. Glad I tested it before I cut out my console face for it.

[Eric603]

In the mean time I am working out things for my control console.

[Bob La Londe]

WOO! HOO! Tracking shows my new touch screen monitor is OUT FOR DELIVERY!. Once I get it mounted and new screens design for the higher resolution I will post a video of using the monitor for jogging and positioning. I think I am going to integrate basic probe and jog functions into my custom JOG screen.

[FannBlade]

Hey Bob
I'm going to look at the Hurco this week and pretty sure I will get it.
Can you tell me how much of the machine actually runs on 3 phase? Spindle I use a VFD but was wondering if the control is 220 single. It is a working machine and has spent it's whole life from day one cutting plastic...of course it was used just on Sundays by a little old lady. He said we could pull some panels if I want to. He's asking $2000 with laptop,software and old tape drive and box of tooling. I did find a retrofit servo kit for $6200...any idea what you will have in yours?
Will you be making a power draw bar for your?

I know "out fishing"!

Thanks

[Bob La Londe]

I was actually at a scholarship awards ceremony for my daughter last night. She was awarded an academic scholarship already, and last night she received an alumni association scholarship. I was happy to be there, but it was long.

I'm not sure I know exactly what I have in it, but my account may not match your account. I retrofit mine almost to bare cabinets. I have an assortment of misc stuff. The mill only cost 500, but I have to add a day off work to go get it and a couple hundred dollars in fuel to that, so figure a base cost of 1200-1500. Somewhere along the line one servo motor was broken so I had to replace that. I have new servo controllers, and new computer. I also have a few false start expenses. I put on a new FRL. The old one probably would have worked, but it didn't "feel" good. There are lots of small misc parts, cables, plus the smoothstepper and breakout board. I have a 5V regulated 5A power supply for lots of misc stuff. I used the 60V (unwound to 57 I think) for my main servo power supply, but I have to add a 100 amp (probably overkill) rectifier and a couple large capacitors to that cost. I am guessing around $2000-2500 in parts counting everything except the false starts.

I may also get some salvage out of it at some point. I have all the old servo amps, memory cards, process, card racks, etc on a shelf. I also have the huge 460-230 transformer off the back which I can salvage for copper and iron if nothing else.

As near as I can tell there were only two things that required 3 phase before I started unscrewing screws and cutting wires. The spindle fan motor and the spindle motor off the VFD. I have not yet decided if I am going to keep the original VFD or replace it with one intended for 1-3phase and 5HP. The one in it is 1-3 or 3-3, but at 1-3 I have to derate it about 30%. That means I could never run the motor to peak load without destabilizing the VFD. I have a 1/2HP 1-3 VFD running the fan motor that I bought off Ebay pretty cheap. I was not even sure I was going to hook up the main spindle for a while because most of my work would benefit from a high speed spindle more than from a high (relatively) horsepower spindle (mill manual say 4HP, but the motor is rated at 5). I recently picked up a 10K Yuasa speeder ($546 not in the numbers above), so I'll probably go ahead and hook up the spindle motor when I have time. 10K is still a bit slow for the small cutter detail work I do, but if its concentric enough I may be able to rough, face, and heavy cut, then slap in the speeder for the finish work.

By your comments about a power draw bar I am guessing yours must have an R8 spindle instead of the Qwick 200 mine has. A power draw bar is not an option on my spindle. I flip on my brake lock switch, twist the collar, and the tool holder falls out in my hand. Its got a pneumatic brake on the spindle with an electric air valve to actuate it.

I actually got fairly lucky with tooling. I got 7 or 8 tool holders and one with a Jacobs chuck with the machine. If I had not decided to power the main spindle motor I would have sold those (and the motor). That would have more than paid for the machine. I have since picked up a shell mill arbor, shell/face mill, an accura flex collet chuck, and a couple more fixed diameter tool holders for it. There is another $400-500 apx not in the numbers above. I also picked up 4 large screwless vises for it a while back, but those can be used on anything or resold for nearly full price so I really can't count those as part of my cost. If I use them the way I plan (plan to cut step jaws on them) I won't be able to resell them for as much though. That's just the cheapest way to get the grip range I wanted.

I hope I helped.

Some of my other plans are to:
* Add a simple 4th axis rotary chuck (probably 5C). - Likely
* Add a 2nd Z on its own bearings and its own servo with a high speed 3 phase ER spindle motor mounted on the side of the head. - Depends on how well the speeder works out.
* Add a 2 axis work piece mount. - Not too likely.
* Add partial cabinet splash guards. - Definitely
* Build larger cutting area containment cabinet - Not likely in the short term.
* Convert coolant flood over to simple electric cooler pump with water based coolant (PC switched on/off of course). - Definitely
* Add selectable mist coolant (PC switched on/off, but manually selected over flood with manual switch). - Definitely

[FannBlade]

Hey Bob,how did you move your machine? Planning on just using a forklift to move mine,just looking for some tips. Called a rigging co. and they quoted $1600 for 10 mile move. Forklift is $200/day. Looks really top heavy that's for sure. Can I strap or chain around the knee section...I know the tables are off limits. I was all over this thing today and is very tight especially the quill. Runs smooth and spindle brake works well also has box of tooling and mist lube installed. side panel lists the DC power @80 volts I will need to check it further as I go along.
I will start a build thread once I get it home...i have to get it up and running fast.

[Bob La Londe]

It was loaded on my trailer with a forklift under the flat part of the head. I unloaded it with two cherry pickers with straps in the same place. I have since moved it around by pushing it with my tractor and a long board to the base. That or a straight bar for small moves. A straight bar will tire you out quick.

[Yaeg6erdg]

I will start a build thread once I get it home

[Bob La Londe]

Well, I spun the spindle under power today. I was planning to use an inverter from Spedestar (PC1-50) that is designed to provide a full 3.7Kw (5hp) off of single phase, but when I had some spare cash to buy it Drives Warehouse was out of stock on them. Aurgh! I had absolutely no confidence in that Mitsubishi VFD that was in the cabinet, but it does have instructions for hooking it to single phase. I figured I'ld just run it from its own control panel to start. I wired power to it, hooked up the ground and the braking resistor (which I had previously removed when I stripping the machine in preparation for the retrofit.

Then after sitting there for a while preparing myself mentally for smoke and flames I threw the blade. The inverter had a default setting of 40 hz on the display so I pushed FWD.

The spindle just started right up. In reverse. I half expected that. Nothing on the motor or rest of the machine is labeled. I ran the motor from 3hz to 100hz on the first test run and it seemed fine. something is kind of whiney under 20hz, but it runs smoothly enough otherwise.

Figured I'ld post an update while it powers down so I can swap a couple motor leads and get it running in the right direction.

I know I could just hook the forward control pin to reverse and the reverse control pin to forward when I wire it into the breakout board, but I will hook it up right at the inverter incase I have to run the spindle in manual mode on the future. (Now I need to order some 5V relays. The controller wants dry contacts for the start inputs.)

[FannBlade]

Keep up the great work. I finally have mine in the shop. I was visually stunned when I open all 3 cabinets! Amazing what a digital driver can replace.
Ended up getting it moved for $750.


Thanks for the updates.

[FannBlade]

Is there a way to run the servos with a power supply or something. I would like to see them move before I tear it down.

[Bob La Londe]

Car battery. I moved my table and spindle quill with a 12V car battery before I got it going. I just took the motor wires directly to the battery. The car battery will provide enough current to move the table, and it won't move so fast that you will crash it before you swap the leads if its going the wrong way. I tried and alarm battery (7AH) and it would only move a few inches before it sucked it down under load. LOL. A fully charged car battery will move all you need to. You want to just run the motor wires directly to the battery if you do it this way.

Do not just jumper to the motors with your 70V+ power supply once you get it setup. That will make a horrible arc, melt terminal screws (or whatever, and go so fast that the table will slam into the stops before you can blink. Not that I would have any experience with that...

[FannBlade]

Not that I would have any experience with that...

Thanks I will try the battery.....NOT full power! :nono: ^

[Bob La Londe]

I finally got around to looking at the coolant/lubricant tank. It has a layer of oil (just oil) in the bottom so I figured it was some kind of oil dispenser for cutting oil. I couldn't figure out why it had an air line going to it though unless it had an air driven pump of some kind. Since I am getting very close on every thing else I decided to look at it more closely. Its a Kool Mist 400F. Has a nice little frame that holds the tank on the base of the mill. That it had a layer of liquid oil in the bottom threw me. The Kool Mist label was on the back so I never saw it until I lifted the thing out of the holder to see what exactly it was and how it worked.

Now I am trying to learn as much as I can about spray mist systems. The opinions are so varying, and Kool Mists own information is very pro self (its wonderful for everything) propaganda.

Any "good" starting points for spray mist? Is it really good for "everything?"

I have been using flood transmission oil on my Taig, but my main reason is that I have an open brush motor (shock hazard) as a spindle on that machine.

[Bob La Londe]

Limits and homing... I didn't play with the spindle to BOB control today. Instead I decided I needed to work with the proximity switches and setup on the axis. It turned out to be dead easy except for a few little things.

Z&Y were both out of adjustment. It would hit the mechanical stop about the same time the switches would kick in. Then I discovered that the encoders and servo amps react so quickly they register an error at the same time the switches do if I programmed them as limits.

Finally I just programmed the switches as homing switches, and programmed soft limits for the machine. The soft limits work pretty darn well.

I did discover somebody lied when they wrote the manual for my Hurco. It will never give me the promised 14" in Y. A little over 13 is it. I set the -Y at zero, and gave of machine soft limits from 0-13. Works great.

Then I cut the jumper wire to my servo trouble indicators, and wired them into the BOB as a limit on my (non-existant B-axis)I tied a servo reset button in on the console and went to it.

Ive got a major service call in the morning tomorrow for my day job, but I may spend a little time in the afternoon trying to tie in the VFD.

Reference all Home now works anyway. My soft limits work perfectly.

I may increase the following error on the servo amps to see if I can get a limit trigger without triggering the servo error output. My biggest problem though was my emergency stop circuit quit working for a while. I could wiggle the wire or hold it hard to one side and it would work. I finally took the C23 BOB out and looked at it carefully. When I put my reading glasses on I spotted a very obvious cold solder joint on the back of the circuit board for that screw terminal. I solder sucked it, and then re-soldered it. Rock solid after that.

[Bob La Londe]

Well, my service call for this morning rescheduled again... I spent the morning configuring the VFD for system control. Its was a little trickier than the proximity homing switches I configured yesterday. I'll need to find my optical tachometer and do some calibration, but its working. I did shorten the spin up time substantially. There is a slight delay between time the VFD reaches frequency and the motor reaches the set speed, but its pretty close. I've got 0-60hz set at 2 seconds. It takes right at 5 seconds for the motor to reach full speed at 3600 RPM apx at 120Hz..

There were a couple hangups. You have to setup the configuration in Mach 3, tie in the BOB, program the VFD, and configure the spindle control in the Smoothstepper. The VFD is weird too. It needs to be in external control only mode to work with external start and frequency, but it needs to be in panel control made to program. Then the BOB wants 25Khz signal source settings for the spindle controller. The lowest spindle frequency setting from the smooth stepper I saw was 32Khz. On top of that the speed, steps, and acceleration settings in the documentation for the BOB aren't even close to what worked.

[Bob La Londe]

P.S. I did some test cuts facing with a 3" 5 tooth mill at 200 IPM and chips flew about 25 feet. The most agressive cut I took was about .25 DOC and .25 stepover at 200 IPM and 3600 RPM. (same mill) Chips flew out and sanded the paint off a panel I had set against a table on that side of the mill to deflect chips.

Work piece support is definitely an issue when cutting hard enough to use actual measurable horsepower. LOL.

I was playing with facing a 4X12x1 piece of 6061 that had been a failed mold cut on the Taig. Its 4x12x.05 (ahem... I think I misplaced a decimal place(0.50") now. Aggressive cuts looked rough as expected, but finish passes looked a little rough on the first few inches that hung out of the vise too. So far all I have done is rub a few drops of TapMagic on the work piece to cut at these "slow" spindle speeds. LOL.

Oddly enough just in testing I am already feeling the size limit of my working envelope at 24x13. I am glad I took the time to setup homing and soft limits before I made my first cut. I had limit warnings save me from hitting the stops before I ever pushed the start button.