584,871 active members*
5,121 visitors online*
Register for free
Login
IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Benchtop Machines > Looking for help picking first CNC Mill
Page 1 of 4 123
Results 1 to 20 of 64
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    0

    Looking for help picking first CNC Mill

    Hey everybody, I originally tried posting this down in Moldmaking, but seems you guys don't tend to make it down there too much. ;p

    I'm looking into getting a CnC Mill for making Molds for Plastic Injection Molding(using some form of Benchtop Injection Molder, still looking into these) and being so green I blend into a forest I want to make sure I don't want to blow this big purchase! xD

    The biggest thing that worries me is making sure I can get the "detail" or "Resolution" I want, because I'm planning a to do some pretty small parts, as in up to smaller than 1/4" possibly, as well as still being able to handle larger jobs(possibly with Steel[not for molds mind you, my dad does a bunch of different manufacturing and auto repair and he might want to use it]). I don't really have a required Minimum amount of travel, I'm more concerned about getting that detail because for some of the things I have planned will be components to something akin to a model kit.

    Thats pretty much all I got at the moment, any help/advice would be greatly appreciated! Feel free to ask clarifying questions as needed!

    EDIT: Steel isn't a strict requirement, but if there is a mill that can handle what I need AND steel I'd like to know so I can consider all my options. Also I should mention that I don't need things done quickly, so a "slower" mill would be fine too.

    Mike

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    0
    Being new myself I almost don't want to post this. If anyone has better advise please speak up, lol.

    First thing the steel cutting is not likely to happen on a model kit. Everywhere that I have been looking says that the model kits are only good for soft metals (aluminum, brass, and maybe copper). For steel you might want to invest in a professional machine.

    And when it comes to Resolution I see that it is all dependent on the adjustments to your machine. If you don't have it dialed in correctly your machine will produce slightly off pieces.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    4415
    I too am an amateur. But I have gotten my feet wet.
    I think you should really assess your needs well. Steel is a very hard material and will require rigidity in the machine, good spindle speed and power and preferably flood. Smaller tooling and patience can go a long way too. Resolution is a hot topic and is very debated. Most machines have the ability to be accurate to under .001 and "theoretically" much smaller. What will be your biggest piece or mold? What is your budget?
    A lazy man does it twice.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    4415
    Kyl, the resolution is also affected by the mechanicals such as gear reduction, ball screws pitch etc. I believe your thinking of micro stepping which is designed to minimize or eliminate resonance.
    A lazy man does it twice.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    0
    Thank You Fastest. I have not worked on a machine in a long time. The last machine I worked on was in a machine shop and I did need to know all this, just the basic concepts. My final part for my cnc router should be in next week, so I will be up and working soon. any and all help will be accepted.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kylundragon View Post
    First thing the steel cutting is not likely to happen on a model kit. Everywhere that I have been looking says that the model kits are only good for soft metals (aluminum, brass, and maybe copper). For steel you might want to invest in a professional machine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fastest1 View Post
    I think you should really assess your needs well. Steel is a very hard material and will require rigidity in the machine, good spindle speed and power and preferably flood. Smaller tooling and patience can go a long way too.
    The steel isn't a strict requirement, but if there is one that can do it I'd definitely like to know, who knows, my dad might kick in the difference to upgrade to it maybe.

    Quote Originally Posted by kylundragon View Post
    And when it comes to Resolution I see that it is all dependent on the adjustments to your machine. If you don't have it dialed in correctly your machine will produce slightly off pieces.
    Well this is why I ask, if "any" mill can get the level of detail I want and it depends more on settings/tooling that's more than I knew before ;p

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastest1 View Post
    Resolution is a hot topic and is very debated. Most machines have the ability to be accurate to under .001 and "theoretically" much smaller.
    Well I guess them maybe I should expand on that and I'm worried that say I was going to do a Dome on something, what I'm worried about is that the dome won't end smooth and be "rough", I'm not really sure I can describe it well....

    Quote Originally Posted by Fastest1 View Post
    What will be your biggest piece or mold? What is your budget?
    Well, I'm still looking into the Benchtop Injectors(I'd be getting this first most likely) and really my max part size would depend on that and I'd just have to work within that limit.

    Right now I don't have a set budget, I'm still trying to make heads or tails of all this, it'd be be pretty arbitrary if I tried to start this all out with a set budget before I even know anything right? xD

    Also I should mention that speed isn't really important, I got lots to keep me busy while it runs xD

    Mike

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    0
    Orange by Benchtop Injectors do you mean like the Makerbot Thing-o-matic, or another 3D Printer?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kylundragon View Post
    Orange by Benchtop Injectors do you mean like the Makerbot Thing-o-matic, or another 3D Printer?
    I don't know either of those, but something more along the lines of the Galomb Benchtop Injection Molder.

    If it was a 3D printer I wouldn't need a mold ;p

    Mike

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    0
    MakerBot Industries it takes a 3d image from the computer and prints it in plastic (ABS). it is good for making any small part, and you can set it to do multiple part. but im not sure what material you are using.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kylundragon View Post
    MakerBot Industries it takes a 3d image from the computer and prints it in plastic (ABS). it is good for making any small part, and you can set it to do multiple part. but im not sure what material you are using.
    The problem with that(and low-end 3D printers in general) is the detail/resolution issue, look on THIS Image, and you can clearly see just how rough it is, it's not even round and you can see the subdivisions, not to mention the continents are practically pixel-lated along the edges. I doubt it's handle things the size I'm looking for as well. ALSO ALSO I'd be stuck relying on their proprietary materials >.>

    Basically, they Sell you a 3D Printer that forces you to keep giving them money if you have the gall to print anything with it >.>

    Mike

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    0
    your going to be paying for material no matter what you go with. but yeah the resolution is not that great on that item.

    i am thinking of making some molds myself for my friends. we are gamers and there is some stuff that we want that you just cant buy.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kylundragon View Post
    your going to be paying for material no matter what you go with.
    Well duh, but you aren't locked in to a certain type of material and your aren't locked into 1 single supplier where they charge 48$ for 1Kg of material, which sounds a lot like highway robery...

    Mike

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    80
    3d printers ok for protos and one off. If you are talking injection molding, you want more than one part and at a low cost per unit.

    You can also machine one offs out of plastic too with a CNC mill.

    Q. Is this for commercial use or just personal use? CNC mills for mold making for production are not cheep. However quality CNC mills can still make molds just slower.

    My Haas TM1 can do it just fine, but it will be a slow process as I only have 6000 RPM on tap. But it would make a fine mold, however I would probably have to up the memory as a 3D mold program will be large.


    Q. What are you going to do for software to program said mill? Good CAM is not cheep. Again personal or commercial makes a difference here.

    Mark
    2005 Haas TM-1, 4th HRT160 - OneCNC XR4 Pro w/4th - Alibre Design Expert
    Metal-tech 4x4 - www.metaltech4x4.com

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by helocat View Post
    3d printers ok for protos and one off. If you are talking injection molding, you want more than one part and at a low cost per unit.
    Yeah, I'm definetly not considering a 3D printer, thus why I'm here xD

    Quote Originally Posted by helocat View Post
    Q. Is this for commercial use or just personal use? CNC mills for mold making for production are not cheep. However quality CNC mills can still make molds just slower.

    My Haas TM1 can do it just fine, but it will be a slow process as I only have 6000 RPM on tap. But it would make a fine mold, however I would probably have to up the memory as a 3D mold program will be large.
    Well's, it's kinda complicated, it wouldn't be for production, but if things go well I'd be using it to prototype things prior to getting a small production run done you know? I know it's not practical for strictly personal use, but hey, nothing wrong with hobbies right? xD

    Quote Originally Posted by helocat View Post
    Q. What are you going to do for software to program said mill? Good CAM is not cheep. Again personal or commercial makes a difference here.
    Honestly I know nothing as far as software goes, one guy who does something similar to what I envision uses solidworks(I think that's what it's called), and I know I can export from my 3D program to that, but I haven't really looked into anything in regards to software yet.

    Mike

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    887
    Im going to say this and I dont want it to sound mean or rash so dont take it that way...

    If you know nothing about software.....CAD/CAM then a machine is of zero use to you. I think your putting the cart way way in front of the horse.

    I would suggest starting out the other way.... start with CAD...... learn that. 2 years down the road when you are proficient with the CAD (yes I said 2 years, if you mess with it every day) Also dependent on if you get any formal training

    That will give you an idea as to how hard designing can be. Not to mention the hours you will spend in just CAD.

    All to often I see this type of question. I even call people from the ZONE and try to guide and give an honest assessment of what it is you are up against. The one thing I always tell them is...."This stuff aint easy!" I own 4 to 5 small desktop mills. Think TAIG SIZE but not taigs and I do jewelry waxes. Resolution is the utmost importance. Stone prongs .3 mm high detail in small areas.

    3D machining is the most labor intensive as far as machining goes. If you want you can PM me your email or phone number and I help explain what your up against and what you will need that you probably havent even thought of yet.

    The reason why I do this is because all to often people buy machines, tools, software ect and realize that "yeah he was right, its not easy" Then I see these machines for sale or worse sitting idle in a closet/garage/basement. breaks my heart really. If your as hard headed as I am (stubborn as well) then lets chat a bit and I will recommend what I think you will need to get started. Also it should be noted that I do not sale any products, I am not a saleshole so I will not be trying to sale you anything.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1186
    I agree with Fixittt, if you only needed 2d or 2.5d milling it wouldn't be that bad, but to do fullblown 3d milling designing, you will have a pretty steep learning curve, this is also working on the assumption that you don't have a design or CAD background.

    if you have access to someone who is proficient with CAD/CAM and you were planning on production of parts you could have someone do the design work based on your criteria and build the Gcode for the Machine and then you could be trained on how to do the basics and oversee the machining, but you mentioned prototyping which tells me you will be doing a variety of new products with little repetition.

    do you have an example of what kind of parts you are going to try and make? and a size? that would help greatly in determining what direction to point you in.

    Chris

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    0
    Well, I kinda get theres a huge learning curve to it, that's why I'm here asking questions instead of just running to Ebay and buying the cheapest stuff I find. >.>

    Also while I've never worked with CAD/CAM software, I for have about 4 years of working with 3D Modeling Software, with formal training in SOFTIMAGE|XSI and self Training with 3D Studio Max. Now obviously there are differences but I think you might be underestimating me just a little bit! ;p

    As far as Part I would like to produce, well I don't have anything specific to show because I'm still trying to figure out where my limits are, but some limits on size will have to do with the Injection Molder I end up using and it's shot capacity and the Mold sizes it can handle. But in short, I want to create molds for Multi-part models kits based on some of my 3D work and more. I'm hoping to get stuff that ends up being akin to you basic action figure is size give or take, but that will depend on the stuff mentioned earlier this paragraph.

    I don't expect to buy everything, plug it if and away I go making those molds, I'll have so much testing, training and adjusting to do and I'm okay with that, I'm not expecting this to be a shortcut to some quick cash, but rather a hobby, and if I can turn a profit either doing my own thing for doing stuff for others that's all extra, so I have the time and common sense to not rush into it.

    Of course I'm sure you'd heard stuff like that too, but it's what I got, This is kinda what I see as the next step, you kinda get this weird disconnect when working strictly digitally, you know it has real shape and form to it, but you only ever see it on a flat screen and I want to take it to this next step. It's going to be expensive and time consuming, but I don't think it'll as bad as the money and time it took me to get where I am today already.

    Mike

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1186
    well, if you are proficient with 3D Studio Max, that may be a very big plus as there are some free software packages that would enable you to use either 3D Studio Max or the free version Gmax here:

    The CNC Toolkit - Creative Toolpath Control

    cnc-toolkit is a script that allows drawings/model to be converted to G-code which your machine would run. that may be a very big plus. I am currently trying to familiarize myself with Gmax and it is not nearly as intuitive as some of the other cad/3d modeling software i have used in the past.

    for the money, a Grizzly G0704 is pretty tough to beat, and Hoss on this forum has done some extensive R&D with this machine that allows it to be pretty expandable going as far as giving you 5 axis control and auto tool changing. obviously if you don't need that capability in the beginning its nice to know you can add it in as you go. a quick search in the benchtop mill forum which your in will bring up numerous G0704 builds.

    this in its base form would give you roughly 18-7/8" X travel, 6-7/8" Y travel and I believe ~14" of Z travel giving you a pretty nice working envelope. Hoss's axis extension plans upgrade the Y movement to 9.5" and the Z movement to 18" which is pretty impressive and the mill can be had for about $1200 delivered with the stand.

    G0704 Drill/Mill with Stand

    to complete the 3 axis cnc with the stock leadscrews can be done for about $1000-1500 depending on how frugal you are. you will need the computer of course not included in that and a copy of Mach3 software which will run you between $150-175.00.

    that is the route i have gone so so far and the mill is awesome, i was up and running with the phase 1 style conversion in about 3 days after receiving all the electronics and stock to make the stepper motor mounts.

    not sure if that is what you were looking for, but its a great way to go that won't pigeon hole you if you need additional functionality down the road.

    the CNC toolkit software and Gmax is about the only free 5 axis capable software i know of and it relys on Gmax/3D studio max so you may end up being ahead of the game at least in the designing department. learning to mill and getting tooling is another learning curve altogether but with some research and reading im sure you could get a handle on it!

    Hope that helps!

    Chris

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    5728

    There's really not that much difference

    between CAD and the kind of 3D modeling you've learned to do. It sounds like you're in a good position to take it to the next level, and to start producing actual parts based on your virtual models. Fixxit certainly expressed some valid concerns, but it seems like you've already paid your dues...

    It's possible, of course, to make injection molds from positive forms, using an epoxy-based material. Your injection-molding site has some examples of how that's done. They're good for short runs, but the epoxy doesn't hold up as well as aluminum, which itself doesn't last as well as steel. If you want to cut your own molds in aluminum, you'll need a fairly rigid machine. Most hobbyist routers won't work for that (although they could probably produce the positive forms). As well as rigidity, you'll need a fairly fast and accurate spindle to handle the very small cutters you'll use to get your detail.

    The Taig mill would be a good starter tool to consider for this; it's fairly inexpensive but comes ready to run, it's rigid enough to deal with metal-cutting forces, and the spindle runs at 11k rpm, which is fast enough for cutters down to .020" or so if you keep the feedrates down and take light cuts. For CAM software, I'd recommend starting with DeskProto, which is quite simple to use but powerful enough to deal with complicated and dense models. You can download it from DeskProto offers rapid prototyping using an affordable cnc milling machine: DeskProto is 3D cam software for model making. and use the free demo to write g-code. But I'd suggest waiting until you've got the mill up and running before doing that, so you can see how it works before the 30 days trial period is over.

    Andrew Werby
    ComputerSculpture.com — Home Page for Discount Hardware & Software

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    3920

    You need to define what you want to do or make.

    First mold making is a very serious business. It would be best to design the product in conjunction with an experienced mold maker.

    Second projected production requirements define what the mold is made of. So steel might not be an option.

    Third take a long hard look at a modern mold shop and the equipment they have. There is much more to it than one CNC machine.

Page 1 of 4 123

Similar Threads

  1. NEED HELP PICKING CAD/CAM
    By hayscott22 in forum Uncategorised CAM Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-27-2011, 08:29 PM
  2. Picking up my X4 on Sat.
    By DAYG in forum Australia, New Zealand Club House
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-22-2010, 11:34 PM
  3. Could I get some help picking out my first setup?
    By mattbesquare in forum Benchtop Machines
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 02-11-2010, 04:29 AM
  4. Is an OTMT lathe/mill multi machine worth picking up?
    By nikodell in forum Benchtop Machines
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-01-2009, 06:11 PM
  5. Need help picking a VMM
    By Tony-JL in forum Want To Buy...Need help!
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-03-2008, 03:38 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •