[TeaManMachine]

Anyone have any issues with the owners of the Company that produces and sells the Shopmaster machines?

I had one heck of a time. It took almost a year to get delivery of my machine. It arrived without all of the extra tools that I ordered with the machine and it didn't have a vice which was listed as a standard piece of the tool. I emailed JT at ShopTask many times. I have a folder dedicated to the email conversations there were so many. A couple of the tools were substituted by others because they said they were no longer available and this is what they had as a substitute, others just never sent. I would go long periods of time with no communications, then would hear something usually an excuse for not replying or not sending a tool I purchased. Finally they stopped replying all together. I never did get the vice or approximately $100 worth of tools I purchased. I sent them multiple lists of what they sent to me, and what I didn't recieve. I was very disappointed since I had read so many good reviews of them. My experience sucked!

[jdclark]

I think they have had machines in stock for the past couple of years- when did you order your machine? I got my machine 3 years ago and it was delivered about 10 days after I ordered. A couple of back order items came by UPS within a couple of weeks. I've had few technical issues over the past few years, but had no problem getting help from JT.

[TeaManMachine]

I'd have to look for exact dates, but I think it's been in storage for about 2-1/2 years. It's been in storage since I got it. I got busy building a house, then workshop, so no time to even set it up. Just tried to get all my tools and what the machine was supposed to come with, and didn't have any luck. Mine was one of the last ones that came from the old plant in China. They kept saying it was shipping, then there were problems, then shipping, then problems. This went on for nearly a year. Some tools came before the machine, some things with, and some after. Just didn't get all, and they didn't seem to care...

I truely wish it would have been a better situation. At first they seemed like great people, but turned cold, then very cold, non existent. I assumed they put my mail on a banned list or something because correspondence stopped.

[Timbob]

I paid for mine on a Saturday and it shipped out the following Thursday, one day earlier than it was supposed to. It arrived the next Tuesday, complete and fully functional -- essentially position, plug and play. No issues so far, and it does what I want and expected. I am very pleased.

I have never waited more than 12 hours for an email reply. On occasions where I have phoned, I got an answering machine only twice. The other times, JT was helpful and answered all of my questions. He did not make any kind of a sales pitch, but let the machine sell itself. These communications were made before and after I made payment, and there was no difference pre and post payment. He did not seem in a hurry to get off the phone, or in any way give me the brush off.

In terms of ease of purchase, communication, etc, this was one of the easiest I have ever experienced, especially considering it was a fairly big ticket item.

I'm sorry to hear your experience was less than ideal, but you may want to try him again. I get the impression that he is a stand up guy, and will make it right for you.

Good luck!

[jdclark]

Sounds a bit suspicious- he claims he ordered about 3 1/2 years ago, yet just showed up here yesterday- my PM bounced back.

[Bell 430]

I ordered(My company) a bridge mill about the same time frame hes talking about, it took mine 12 business days to get to me, the funny part is the machine was sitting at the trucking company for 3 days, so I guess the delivery time was actuall 9 days, I have no complaint about that. as for contacting JT I have had ABSOLUTELY NO problems. I agree with Timbob, I've never waited more then 24 hours for a response, there has been several times I've had JT respond to an E-Mail on the weekend.

[TeaManMachine]

Sorry, I've been away from my computer for a while so I haven't been able to get on this site.

Not sure what you mean JDClark about me ordering my machine about 3 1/2 years ago, and just showing up yesterday.....

If you mean to this site, yes, I just ran across it while I was researching drives and motors to see if I may be able to upgrade my machine to drives rather than belts. I saw a specific area dedicated to Shopmaster and decided to see if anyone else had issues. I'm happy you have not, but can't say the same myself. By the time I got my machine, I had moved and had to put it into heated storage. I actually just got it out yesterday and moved it into my new workshop. I hope I have good luck like I've seen here on setting it up and starting to make metal chips...

I ordered my machine just about the time the Patriot came out. My machine was the last ones that were built in the old factory in China. JD kept saying that they were having problems with shipping and the factory was having issues. Something to do with the factory being paid, but them not using the money to pay the shipping company. I'd have to go through my string of emails to see exactly what it was. I started following up about every week or so, changed to every couple weeks, then at least once monthly.

I guess if the shipping times actually were as good as you guys say yours were, I'm even more dissapointed. I was definitely strung along then. I'm not out a bunch of money, probably around $100 worth of stuff, but being a professional myself, the business practices I saw were less than desired.

To be honest here, after what I went through, I was extrimely surprised to see the responses I got. I was expecting something similar.

If they would have actually made an effort to make things right, I would not have had a problem. I didn't even get the vice that was supposed to come with the machine and will have to get one myself now.

TeaMan

[jdclark]

Anyone have any issues with the owners of the Company that produces and sells the Shopmaster machines?

I had one heck of a time. It took almost a year to get delivery of my machine. It arrived without all of the extra tools that I ordered with the machine and it didn't have a vice which was listed as a standard piece of the tool. I emailed JT at ShopTask many times. I have a folder dedicated to the email conversations there were so many. A couple of the tools were substituted by others because they said they were no longer available and this is what they had as a substitute, others just never sent. I would go long periods of time with no communications, then would hear something usually an excuse for not replying or not sending a tool I purchased. Finally they stopped replying all together. I never did get the vice or approximately $100 worth of tools I purchased. I sent them multiple lists of what they sent to me, and what I didn't recieve. I was very disappointed since I had read so many good reviews of them. My experience sucked!

They had a clearance sale of machines when the old factory closed. The price was 1895.00 and a vise was not included. There was an earlier sale for 1995.00 which included the vise- which one did you buy?

[TeaManMachine]

JDClark, I'd have to look at invoices for it. We are still unpacking all of our stuff and getting organized, so I'm not exactly where it is filed. The flyer I have from when I bought the machine clearly showed the vice. You are right there was a clearance and that is when I purchased. You do seem to know a lot about the history with them....

I'd have to do some real digging to find everything again. Also need to retrieve my old emails from a crashed computer. Hopefully that'll be successful within the next couple days. I had scanned the flyer from when I purchased the machine, but never sent it because they stopped replying to my emails, so I didn't see the point. I should still have that in PDF but again it's on the hard drive of the crashed computer. I also have a list of what I purchased with what I recieved and didn't highlighted. This I did send to them. They actually found a mistake I made on a couple books which I agreed to, but the rest I never did recieve.

TeaMan

[smallblock]

I ordered(My company) a bridge mill about the same time frame hes talking about, it took mine 12 business days to get to me, the funny part is the machine was sitting at the trucking company for 3 days, so I guess the delivery time was actuall 9 days, I have no complaint about that. as for contacting JT I have had ABSOLUTELY NO problems. I agree with Timbob, I've never waited more then 24 hours for a response, there has been several times I've had JT respond to an E-Mail on the weekend.

I've been dealing with JT for nearly 20 years now. Bought a 17-20 back in '93 and then a Patriot a few years back. Both machines paid for themselves many times over. JT has always been fair on any warranty issues I've had, and never failed to return a call or e-mail.

[wilsonrj22]

Hello,
I purchased my Patriot 2010 in October of that year and live in N Cal. I have family in S.Cal and arranged to stop by JT's in Las Vegas to pick up my machine and haul it back to N Cal in my 3/4 ton pickup. I've had a few really small issues and JT has always responded to my emails and readily answers the telephone. I had a few items back ordered; which shipped as soon as available and when it was apparent availability was not going to happen, JT cheerfully mailed me a refund check.

I'm retired IT manager and this is one of my many hobbies, so I don't spend as much time on my machine as I'd like. I've been taking manufacturing technology classes at my local community college since 2007 and know it if unfair to expect any $10,000 imported equipment to outperform $50-100,000 USA equipment. IMHO- Shopmaster Patriots perform very well in the price point they exist in. Do I have some chatter, yes a small amount. Have I had some small parts quality problems, yes, but not anything you wouldn't comparably see in other brands. Are there upgrades i'm going to do, yes and I was aware when considering my purchase that I would do some; but it is a hobby of mine.

Last, I usually don't take time to post, but thought I could give my experience. JT has always been up-front and very professional; and I believe much of the few negative commentary is undeserved. Some of it even borders on
Troll ALERT

[Quadramaster]

TeaMan,
I have to agree with everyone else. I didn't even buy a new machine from JT, but a 2001 Shopmaster 2000 Quadralift from a friend last year. It had a couple small parts the previous owner broke, but JT was VERY helpful in getting me parts for my 10 year old machine, and the prices were very reasonable. He has always been very responsive, to a number of silly noob questions I asked him. I'm sorry to hear about your troubles, but since none of us has had a similar experience, I might suggest the possibility that your attitude had some affect on your relationship with JT. If I were you I'd try to repair that relationship... Just saying...

Mark -

[TeaManMachine]

Very interesting comments. I'm sure glad everyone has had good luck with ShopMaster. Quadramaster, I'm not sure what I would have done to hurt any relationship or what my attitude would be. I patiently waited almost a year for my machine checking up on it every month or so and waited for parts that never arrived. I then followed up to see what was wrong and tried to get them delivered. If that is a bad attitude or I did something wrong, I'm very confused. I've been working with vendors and suppliers my entire career of 20+ years and never had to deal with anything like this before.

You make a good point, I will try contacting JT again and see if I can still resolve this. I was and am frustrated that he didn't resolve it when I was actively working with him. I haven't tried now in over a year. Just gave up I guess. I thought I'd see if anyone else has had issues and was hoping to hear what someone else may have done to resolve theirs. Apparently JT works well with everyone else...

TeaMan

[jdclark]

They had a clearance sale of machines when the old factory closed. The price was 1895.00 and a vise was not included. There was an earlier sale for 1995.00 which included the vise- which one did you buy?

From your original post, it looks like some items were backordered or no longer available and you accepted substitutes or refunds. If all this broo ha ha is over that 39.00 vise, let us know if you bought the 1995.00 or 1895.00 special. If the latter is the case, then you were not entitled to a vise.

[TeaManMachine]

JDClark, I guess if you look back at my original post, I was simply asking if anyone else had problems with ShopMaster and stated that I did. People asking questions including yourself dug deeper, so all this hoopla isn't mine. Also I never said I took refunds on anything. I said, I was offered substitues, but again since you brought it up, I didn't get all the substitutes, I did get a couple of them. The brochure I printed when I purchased the machine had a vice on it. Like I said, I didn't find the invoice. Not sure why I would have printed the brochure if it wasn't the machine I purchased. I also stated that I'm not out a lot of money. I just again simply asked if others had issues and stated I had issues. You seem way too tight with this issue. Not sure why.

I see no reason to keep this going anymore. I got my answer, everyone else has had a good relationship. I'm truely happy for that.

TeaMan

[Quadramaster]

TeaMan,
Once you get to know this community better (and I hope you will) I think you will find that we are trying to determine how we can help you to have the same experience that we have all had. Your experience has obviously been less than satisfactory, and I think that the concensus of opinion is that there is something wrong with that, and we as a community want to try to help. We are not attacking you, we are trying to understand why you have had a different experience than we have had.

These machines are certainly not without their problems, however as representatives of the 3 in 1 machine community I think they are at the top of the stack. As far as customer service I/we would like you to have a better experience too. So please don't missunderstand our comments as criticisims of you. I/we are only trying to get to the bottom of your dissatisfaction, and understand what we can do to help. We have given you testimonials, so you should understand that your situation is not common. Consider that, as you work with us to help you have as much fun with your machine as we are having with ours...

Mark -

[TeaManMachine]

Thanks Mark. I think we understand each other. My experience has obviously been unique, and I aim to find out why. When I get more time, I'll dig back into old coorespondence and get it teed back up with JT. I had given up basically and was wondering if my experience was shared, which it wasn't. I have not done anything with the machine yet, and will again when time permits. I have read lots of good things about it and am anxious to dig in myself.

Again thanks for the nice reply.

TeaMan

[kraftstuff]

Anyone have any issues with the owners of the Company that produces and sells the Shopmaster machines?

I had one heck of a time. It took almost a year to get delivery of my machine. It arrived without all of the extra tools that I ordered with the machine and it didn't have a vice which was listed as a standard piece of the tool. I emailed JT at ShopTask many times. I have a folder dedicated to the email conversations there were so many. A couple of the tools were substituted by others because they said they were no longer available and this is what they had as a substitute, others just never sent. I would go long periods of time with no communications, then would hear something usually an excuse for not replying or not sending a tool I purchased. Finally they stopped replying all together. I never did get the vice or approximately $100 worth of tools I purchased. I sent them multiple lists of what they sent to me, and what I didn't recieve. I was very disappointed since I had read so many good reviews of them. My experience sucked!

Funny you ask, I have many similar concerns mine about un-business-like conduct, below purchase background; then list:

I purchased one Tripower, serial 08374 (that is machine 374 produced in 2008); in the beginning of the 2008 Great Collapse. I paid with a check drawn on my C.U. The sale price was 1995.00 with one hundred off for cash payment up front. I received mailed invoice number 6551 on Nov 1, 2008, I thought everything was fine, but looking back, I see many fields were blank, notably; 'customer phone number'.
First un-business-like thing:

Turns out, Someone inside John's Business submitted by substitution, my C.U.'s phone number to the shipper; Roadway. Had to be a deliberate choice on that person's part; MY phone was not on the check (the only place they could have got that Credit Union #). I should have hand written my phone number on the top of the check and blacked out the C.U.'s number with a Sharpie, this is partly my fault; I have some guilt. The result was my machine languished at Roadway (two to three weeks), during the record snow storm of 2008, while either; other freight or snow weight was piled on top. Yes, I finally sniffed out the problem, when tracking the Roadway shipment; I noticed under consignee phone number my C.U.'s main office number. My machine has a few water spots and and the mill cover is broken.
Second un-business-like act:

John no longer trusts his customer to unpack HIS machines as they come from Asia, an employ named 'Ben' "BN"; unpacked my machine and 'set it up'. Turns out, he removed:
the MT3-MT3 EXTENSION
the MT4-MT3 REDUCTION SLEAVE
He repacked the small-part wooden case poorly; and two of the braised-on carbides were chipped.
Third un-business-like act:

The included vise I received, it was so shoddy; it fell apart when I picked it up. I called; they said to send it back and follow-up with an e-mail. I sent vise by my Fed Ex account, to John (Jan 15, 2009); that is when I learned his business is run out of his house. My shipper's account informed me, and I looked it up online; just to see for myself. I didn't hear anything back on the vise, so I followed up with an email (Apr-22) and they replied;
"Mr. M.,
I pulled your file and did not find any notes about a vise- Did you return it to us? If so, was it UPS or US mail?
Catherine"
My email on the fifteenth, I told them; it was Fed Ex.
I think I followed that up by my last phone call, in which; they doubted that I sent it. But, I can't remember; because I was so disappointed. Especially because John is so good, on the phone; when you get him on the phone.
Fourth un-business-like act:

I received a circular, in the mail soliciting me, or anyone I knew to buy the business; I'm not kidding!
I have one last thing, and this is just a complaint;

John insists that his machines run on 110-120 volts, while the truth is; in Asia, they are run at roughly twice that at the factory. I have checked out the wiring enough to know that there are two phases, 'A' and 'B' and it appears that the 'A' phase is split like a normal split voltage bi-rotational motor but I'm not certain yet. The two 'half phases' differ in impedance by 60% and the motors don't have real NEMA tags; so it very hard to know for sure. Also, the run-capacitors are all rated 250v, and; the motor running on 120 makes an internal 206 volts. In the old days when you unpacked your Shoptask you had to remove two jumpers to lower the coupled voltage (I have read the description circa 1995). Any old timers know how to re-couple to 220-240? It would sure help.

[fastlanecafe]

Funny you ask, I have many similar concerns mine about un-business-like conduct, below purchase background; then list:

I purchased one Tripower, serial 08374 (that is machine 374 produced in 2008); in the beginning of the 2008 Great Collapse. I paid with a check drawn on my C.U. The sale price was 1995.00 with one hundred off for cash payment up front. I received mailed invoice number 6551 on Nov 1, 2008, I thought everything was fine, but looking back, I see many fields were blank, notably; 'customer phone number'.
First un-business-like thing:


Turns out, Someone inside John's Business submitted by substitution, my C.U.'s phone number to the shipper; Roadway. Had to be a deliberate choice on that person's part; MY phone was not on the check (the only place they could have got that Credit Union #). I should have hand written my phone number on the top of the check and blacked out the C.U.'s number with a Sharpie, this is partly my fault; I have some guilt. The result was my machine languished at Roadway (two to three weeks), during the record snow storm of 2008, while either; other freight or snow weight was piled on top. Yes, I finally sniffed out the problem, when tracking the Roadway shipment; I noticed under consignee phone number my C.U.'s main office number. My machine has a few water spots and and the mill cover is broken.
Second un-business-like act:

John no longer trusts his customer to unpack HIS machines as they come from Asia, an employ named 'Ben' "BN"; unpacked my machine and 'set it up'. Turns out, he removed:
the MT3-MT3 EXTENSION
the MT4-MT3 REDUCTION SLEAVE
He repacked the small-part wooden case poorly; and two of the braised-on carbides were chipped.
Third un-business-like act:

The included vise I received, it was so shoddy; it fell apart when I picked it up. I called; they said to send it back and follow-up with an e-mail. I sent vise by my Fed Ex account, to John (Jan 15, 2009); that is when I learned his business is run out of his house. My shipper's account informed me, and I looked it up online; just to see for myself. I didn't hear anything back on the vise, so I followed up with an email (Apr-22) and they replied;
"Mr. M.,
I pulled your file and did not find any notes about a vise- Did you return it to us? If so, was it UPS or US mail?
Catherine"
My email on the fifteenth, I told them; it was Fed Ex.
I think I followed that up by my last phone call, in which; they doubted that I sent it. But, I can't remember; because I was so disappointed. Especially because John is so good, on the phone; when you get him on the phone.
Fourth un-business-like act:

I received a circular, in the mail soliciting me, or anyone I knew to buy the business; I'm not kidding!
I have one last thing, and this is just a complaint;

John insists that his machines run on 110-120 volts, while the truth is; in Asia, they are run at roughly twice that at the factory. I have checked out the wiring enough to know that there are two phases, 'A' and 'B' and it appears that the 'A' phase is split like a normal split voltage bi-rotational motor but I'm not certain yet. The two 'half phases' differ in impedance by 60% and the motors don't have real NEMA tags; so it very hard to know for sure. Also, the run-capacitors are all rated 250v, and; the motor running on 120 makes an internal 206 volts. In the old days when you unpacked your Shoptask you had to remove two jumpers to lower the coupled voltage (I have read the description circa 1995). Any old timers know how to re-couple to 220-240? It would sure help.

I bought one of the Tri-Powers on the closeout special as well. I thought it was a super deal, as the price was 2000.00 less than the normal price. I had no issues with shipping or delivery.
When you saw your phone # missing from the invoice, did you call them to be sure they had it? I think its been a standard practice at Shopmaster for many years to open and inspect every machine prior to shipment. I don't see any reason to call this " un business like" This Ben is probably an employee. If those parts were missing, maybe it was a shortage from the factory.
Did you have a FED EX tracking # for your vise- did you get a delivery confirmation? The vise and those other parts are only worth about 50.00, so I'm sure Shopmaster would have sent you replacements. I also received the flyer about selling the business- that was just before the economy collapsed. JT told me he had considered retiring, but after the problems with the economy, there was simply no money available for the people who were interested in buying. Since then he has made huge improvements in the machine and its functions.
I'm not a motor expert, but from what I understand, a dual capacitor induction motor has 2 windings- start and run. The start winding is engaged at the beginning to get the motor up to speed, then a centrifugal switch turns off the start winding and the run winding continues to operate. In some designs, 1/2 of the start winding continues to operate along with the run winding. This may be why your voltage readings are what they are. Capacitors are rated by inductance and most of them are dual voltage, meaning that they work the same on 110 or 220 volts.
My machine runs fine on 110 power- just plug it in and go. However, I am very interested in changing to the new VFD drives just for the convenience and simplicity.

[kraftstuff]

Q)
You ask; "When you saw your phone # missing from the invoice, did you call them to be sure they had it?"
A)
I wrote;
"looking back 'that means now', I see many fields were blank, notably; 'customer phone number'."
Q)
You wrote;
"I don't see any reason to call this " un business like" This Ben is probably an employee. If those parts were missing, maybe it was a shortage from the factory."
A)
I wrote;
"John no longer trusts his customer to unpack HIS machines as they come from Asia, an employ named 'Ben' "BN"; unpacked my machine and 'set it up'." (employ is a short form of the noun employee).

I KNOW is employee; don't play with me. In the 1990's one would set-up one's own machine, John and I spoke to the topic, on the phone, in which I asked him who 'BN' WAS. Next, I asked what he was doing with my machine (he told me). Then, I asked him, could he have removed anything, I told him that the Asian packing slip was missing (the one in Congee); he got quiet when I responded that the I found the same finger-prints on the 'set-up' check-list as on the wooden small parts box; and that there were a dozen north american sheet-rock screws added to the lid of the original box to augment the removed original asian nails. I stayed quiet and he volunteered to replace the missing items, if I sent him a list, I did my part; he never did his.
You Write;
"If those parts were missing, maybe it was a shortage from the factory."

A)
I told John that the Factory Asian packing slip was among the items removed, that is why he had to tell me he would replace the items instead of give me the 'factory shortage line'.

Q)
You ask;
"Did you have a FED EX tracking # for your vise- did you get a delivery confirmation?"
A)
My Fed Ex account showed it had been delivered promptly, fed ex sent shipping confirmation email, with all the information; which I forwarded to Catherine on 4/22/09.


Q)
you write;
"I also received the flyer about selling the business- that was just before the economy collapsed."
A)
You are wrong, the circular offering 'Shopmaster business for sale' was in 2009.

Q)
You write;
"there was simply no money available for the people who were interested in buying."
A)
The business did not transact, because its worth is its assets only, in the main; a house on 7839 N Torrey Pines.

Q)
You write;
"from what I understand, a dual capacitor induction motor has 2 windings- start and run."
A)
OK; these motors have three windings: A split coil (series 220 voltage/parallel 110), 'A' phase RUN; AND a 'B' phase START.
YES, when I 'plug it into 110 and go' THEN I get out my FLUKE to see what voltage the windings see; they see 206-220 depending on which vintage motor. The sharper amplitude of the higher level AC waveform should actually impart a higher 'leading power factor' from better coil (winding) saturation. This aspect of 'LPF' is programed into good VFDs thru the engineering application of Finite Analysis (best done on the actual motor).

Q)
You write;
"In some designs, 1/2 of the start winding continues to operate along with the run winding."
A)
This is wrong. In 220V operation, split voltage motors; the Start (B) phase is 110-125. Start (B phases) are 'Y' wired in-between the split run phase coils; so that it can only 'see' 120 for that brief instant it is connected. Its impedance is so low it will fry if permanently connected even to 110 (~0.14 Ohm). The imbalance of split run ('A' phase) impedance may be to not overly weaken the start phase when one run leg is momentarily coupled beside it (leg coupled beside start high impedance; leg feeding series to run low impedance).

Q)
"This may be why your voltage readings are what they are."
A)
The fact that you think this could happen, is plausibility for split voltage motors inducing high series-potential energy; off of low-energy parallel legs.

Q)
You write:
"My machine runs fine on 110 power"
A)
OK