[azlaserguy]

I appreciate you posting, I wondered just what I'd get if I had waited, or if I'd have ever gotten anything and I didn't want to take a chance and wait over 6 months only to find I couldn't get help from the credit card company because I passed some sort of deadline. Other people in business for themselves like me were all opposed to waiting when I explained the situation, I have a group I like to bounce things off of to make sure I'm not reactionary and looking at just the facts. I always had better luck by calling and emailing wasn't effective, kinda of opposite the other person's experience. In the end what mattered was he called back the person posing as a new buyer but didn't return my messages, that was the clincher and spoke volumes for myself and the former officer. I didn't get a motor story, I got a VFD control for the motor story, so I wonder if it was different things to different people...I wondered about the Z manual operation too, wasn't sure how that was going to work, sounds like it didn't I could only see it working through the display by jogging. I might have been annoyed with what I received too, I hate when someone does sloppy work on new equipment, and it doesn't have to be the rule, my Chinese engine lift is a great piece of work, and I've had a pickup project keeping it busy since the shopmaster fiasco I think the only way I'd do business with him would be to go, see the machine fully set up, run a part, then see it packed and loaded onto my truck. Oh, and an apology for his conduct in the first round would go a long way, not holding my breath on that one To this day I never received a call back, so it's clear to me he knows his methodology is wrong and equally clear he feels no remorse for it. He had something like a month to call and make an effort while the credit card company went through it's paces.

I'm glad I waited....kinda. The machine in concept is exactly what I need and I think it will do the job just fine. The lack of attention to detail I certainly don't need. It's the little things that irk me like the mounting holes for a cover were drilled slightly off the mark so instead of tossing a 30 cent piece of angle iron, they redrilled right on top of the old holes. Or not putting backing washers under the covers to prevent the thin sheet metal from bending. That's sloppy amateur BS.

It sat in a humid Chinese warehouse for 3 months waiting on the motors and alot of parts are rusted. Luckily they managed to keep the ways oiled, but the lathe chuck and many bolts are very rusty. To Shopmaster's credit, they sent a note stating the chuck would be replaced at no charge.

I'm looking at a picture of the Patriot and the Z-axis mount looks nothing like mine. I noticed that there's a casting that looks like it would fit the stepper, but instead its mounted on an L bracket completely uncovered and kinda in the way. It was shipped with the motor cord trapped between the mount and cover and the casing is a bit damaged. Come to think of it, the Z-axis is missing the entire manual functionality. There is no handle or bevel gear like the manual describes.

"A bit damaged" describes alot of the machine actually. A bunch of parts were dented or scratched in shipping. Not so much that it would effect functionality.....just enough to piss me off :boxing: A few parts were just straight up missing and who knows when they'll be here. I do appreciate that they shipped the machine rather than making me wait for some handles and a gear though.

I'll send them an email with my issues soon and see how they respond.

[azlaserguy]

There currently is a good Smithy exclusive group to Yahoo! Groups moderated by Ned S. for picking brains.

Grizzly has some good enough machines. Though reordering parts not-in-stock was a few month wait.

The other relatively cheaper way to go is JET made in Taiwan. Their USA warehouse used to be in Washington State, USA.

The Shoptask design seems to be Shoptask specific and their Chinese factory. Don't go believing all the various 3-in-1 machines are out of the same factory as others have said.

Yahoo! Groups have some good brand name and model specific support forums for help.

I wondered about that being out of the same factory statement, it's not like China is a small place I was hoping to find something with the same lathe diameter option. I didn't care for the Smithy setup, primarily the head looks like it could move too easily for my taste, kind of what I liked about the shopmaster design. I didn't see any combo units from JET, but I'm considering biting the space bullet and going with separate units. I appreciate the detailed reply!

[tropopv]

Ran into another problem. The first problem was that the Mach3 Pro upgrade license was not in the proper folder and I had no idea until after 2 days of troubleshooting why it wouldn't cut threads...

This time, some minor vibration was causing the steppers to shut off. We did a bunch of troubleshooting and narrowed it down to the cnc system power supply. Further investigation revealed it was an internal loose connection of some sort and JT is sending out a new PS right away. I do like the quick responses through email and hope the new part comes quickly. He figures it was handled rough in shipping (I agree...alot of scratches, dents and bent fork rails) which knocked something loose.

So in terms of after sale service, I can't say I'm dissatisfied at this point.

[instructor37]

Ran into another problem. The first problem was that the Mach3 Pro upgrade license was not in the proper folder and I had no idea until after 2 days of troubleshooting why it wouldn't cut threads...

This time, some minor vibration was causing the steppers to shut off. We did a bunch of troubleshooting and narrowed it down to the cnc system power supply. Further investigation revealed it was an internal loose connection of some sort and JT is sending out a new PS right away. I do like the quick responses through email and hope the new part comes quickly. He figures it was handled rough in shipping (I agree...alot of scratches, dents and bent fork rails) which knocked something loose.

So in terms of after sale service, I can't say I'm dissatisfied at this point.

We have had good after sale service on our machines, and spare parts were always shipped quickly either under warranty or due to our own errors. You'll find JT is easy to deal with as long as you approach him in the right way. He has very little patience with people he perceives as whiners. Like the other guy said, e-mail is your best way to contact him, as he spends most of his time working with the machines and doesn't like to stop what he's doing to talk on the phone.

[Jaxian]

I got my invoice "Paid in Full" stamped in early june 2012. Was told they would arrive there mid August and to me by early to mid September. Exchanged an email early on to clarify some parts on the list and talked to JT. He explained everything very clearly and set my mind at ease. Everything seemed to be going well. He was super helpful and very clear.

Thought it was weird mid/late August that I didn't hear anything about some of the options I was supposed to make choices about, spray on dye or marker, Etc. I just supposed they were slammed prepping new machines. By mid September I was starting to worry a bit and called and got a message about the new container being in port and being there the next week. I was happy it was there but annoyed it was going to be a bit late. Called the next week and was told that was an old message from the previous shipment and to disregard it.

Was told through email that the Chinese were dragging their feet shipping the order and it was expected mid October (basically now). So delivery early to mid November. Something about stonewalling from the Chinese side on when they would deliver parts. I have dealt with china on computer stuff enough to know they are very quiet when it comes to keeping you in the loop if there are delays. They can be very frustrating. I imagine that puts JT in a crummy position of having to tell customers basically "I don't know when your very expensive tool is showing up". But then again it's hard to strongarm china from across the pacific.

So anyhow. I wanted the rebate for paying in cash so have been cash out of pocket now since I sent the check at the end of last May '12. Full Patriot setup and Pro version of Mach III, plus CNC dividing option, coolant pump, basically every option.

I was going to call next week just to make sure everything was still moving along toward a early to mid November arrival. This thread has me kind of worried as I have initiated every interaction with them since my payment in full. That makes me a bit apprehensive.

By the same token with all the stuff I ordered with it I also don't want to annoy him when he is trying to get it set up. I have never worked with machine tools before and would rather they did the setup themselves correctly from the get go.

So, is it worth calling or would I just be working against my best interests? I really want the unit before the holiday season arrives and have had an area prepped and wired and all that for months now.

Thanks for your opinions.

[Timbob]

You can call, but if they are still bobbing up and down on the ocean, it won't help. I am very impatient when it comes to getting items I've already paid for. I believe JT is in a difficult spot at times with these machines, courtesy of the offshore manufacture. It is a bit questionable to keep your money for 4 months, but I think that actually is the way the Chinese operate. No full container = no shipment, problems with production = keep quiet. He was very likely promised the units by the original dates set forth, so that is what he went by. Lousy situation all around.

FWIW, I got mine 2 weeks after I paid, November 2011. It arrived just fine and has worked flawlessly. It is not a $20,000 machine, but you are getting an awful lot for the money. I personally believe it is worth the wait, but also that updating you without having to contact him would go a long way.

You WILL get your machine. If you have realistic expectations, you Will be thrilled with it. :cheers:

[terrycan]

It has been good. He had machines in stock when I ordered. Delevery was within a week. Be realistic. You get a reasonable value for the price.

:cheers:

[Jaxian]

It has been good. He had machines in stock when I ordered. Delevery was within a week. Be realistic. You get a reasonable value for the price.

:cheers:

Oh, I know it's a good value for what you receive, I wouldn't debate that. It's just that for me since I paid 5 months ago and have had to do all the follow up contacting and it's 1 1/2 months past the original delivery date with no new word on when things might be arriving I am a little nervous.

I did just call them a few minutes ago since in my last talk with him they were hoping for a mid October arrival for the new machines and just wanted to confirm they were there and I should start making arrangements for it's delivery in a few weeks. The phone message said they were busy upgrading old machines. So not sure where that leaves me. I just asked him to let me know where things stood by phone or email whenever he got the chance. Trying to be patient about the whole thing because I have wanted one for literally decades. Just 5+ months is a long time when you expect it to be 3 you know.

Oh, well. I am sure things will turn out for the best. I have heard nothing but good things about the after sale service once you actually get the machine. I did just miss the last shipment at the old price and had to kick in the extra $500 for the new VFD motors the factory is hitting them with. I was happy to when I thought I would get it end of summer. Now I am just getting antsy.

[Tapered_Gib]

Anyone have any issues with the owners of the Company that produces and sells the Shopmaster machines?

I had one heck of a time. It took almost a year to get delivery of my machine. It arrived without all of the extra tools that I ordered with the machine and it didn't have a vice which was listed as a standard piece of the tool. I emailed JT at ShopTask many times. I have a folder dedicated to the email conversations there were so many. A couple of the tools were substituted by others because they said they were no longer available and this is what they had as a substitute, others just never sent. I would go long periods of time with no communications, then would hear something usually an excuse for not replying or not sending a tool I purchased. Finally they stopped replying all together. I never did get the vice or approximately $100 worth of tools I purchased. I sent them multiple lists of what they sent to me, and what I didn't recieve. I was very disappointed since I had read so many good reviews of them. My experience sucked!

Yep!

Go read the Usenet archives, especially before the year 2000, re:Google Groups: rec.crafts.metalworking

Keyword = Shoptask

Go talk to the advertising department to, "The Home Shop Machinist" magazine

There used to be another "unofficial" Shoptask group to Delphi Forums, but it is not up anymore.

Better to buy used American iron and rebuild it.

To be fair, out of stock parts to Grizzly took me 3 months to receive. But they were quality parts.

Cheers

[instructor37]

That's an odd post- are you a Shoptask owner? Not sure what the advertising department at HSM has to do with anything, but you could also check places like Popular mechanics, Popular Science, Kit Planes, Classic Cars etc for old Shoptask ads going back to 1981. Many of those ads pre-date the existence of other 3 in 1 companies by a decade. Shoptask/Shopmaster stopped doing any advertising years ago, and rely strictly on word of mouth.

[Jaxian]

The design is top notch among 3 in 1's. Really there is no comparison. The rigidity and capability compared to the Smithy's and Harbor Freight, etc are a step above.

That said the execution is horrible. You have heard most of it already. Mostly just poorly assembled items. Paint looks like it was put on with a toothbrush, lots of dings and chips, machine was dirty. Just lots of little attention to detail things that are very annoying but once worked though it functions as it should. And much better than any competitors in it's granted small field.

I have spent most of my time since I got my machine about a month ago fixing or fabricating all the little things to make it usable. Tons of little things but only one large issue so far. All fixable. Nothing needing replacement at this point but then again I haven't actually been using it that much, just working on it.

That said every night sitting in my garage fixing this thing or that I would get frustrated and wonder why for my $7k plus tax and shipping this thing wasn't better. Then I did the reality check and went and priced a similar 'mill only' machine from Tormach ($8500 bare, near $16k comparably equipped, or Bridgeport ($17,400 bare, near $30k comparably equipped), Haas ($70k, about $90k comparably equipped), and I just calmed down. And these machines are mill ONLY.

So it needs a lot of work, true. But for it's design and capability nothing else in it's price class is close. Also you have to remember that it is a multi use machine and as such there are compromises over single use machines. You can see some of my other threads talking about overcoming them.

Maybe sometime I will write up all the little things that should be fixed from the get go to make your life easier. From blocking the back of the center groove so chips and coolant don't run down right on top of the aluminum stepper gear and belt and ruin them to pointing you to the company that actually makes the mounting arms for the Jenix DROs so you don't have to strap them to something you make yourself (LMSC in Anaheim btw). But that would be a very long post and growing all the time. Ended up only using one piece of the coolant kit and you can get that from grizzly for $25 .

[Timbob]

Good post Jaxian, and very true. I love mine for those very reasons. I knew when I bought it that I would be forever tinkering with it, because that is my nature and also exactly what I expected from the machine. I see no misrepresentation whatsoever in the way this unit is presented. It is absolutely not perfect, and to expect it to be at that price point is ludicrous. However, it is perfectly useable as it is.

I like the idea of making a sticky to list all the mods, fixes, etc for this machine. I might even have a few to contribute myself. For now, I'm quite happy dreaming up upgrades while still using the machine.

[tropopv]

Good post Jaxian, and very true. I love mine for those very reasons. I knew when I bought it that I would be forever tinkering with it, because that is my nature and also exactly what I expected from the machine. I see no misrepresentation whatsoever in the way this unit is presented. It is absolutely not perfect, and to expect it to be at that price point is ludicrous. However, it is perfectly useable as it is.

I like the idea of making a sticky to list all the mods, fixes, etc for this machine. I might even have a few to contribute myself. For now, I'm quite happy dreaming up upgrades while still using the machine.

Dorian QCTP and fabricated riser, Smithy 5C collect chuck, swivel mount for keyboard, mouse, monitor and DRO, and a partial plexiglass chip/coolant enclosure.

[sshroff100]

I bought shopmaster. i just open box this week, but i think cnc missing config (xml) filles, i think xml i have is original with mach-3 not with shop master files?,
limit and axis traveling info is not set.
my machine did not recognize mach 3, I am using same cable and computer come with but, look like don't have right configuration.
Manual not provide detail about config. or he did not sand me mach-3 config cd with machine.

I order splits vise but it have locate pin that get in table groves but pin is bigger then table groves so i have to grind those 4 pins.
My 9pin connector don't have locking nuts so i have to secure with rubber band other wise vibration can disconnect. this pin.
I like machine but it should not have this kind ok problem. i did not talk to johan yet, but he is very nice to me and hope that, he will help to config machine and fix those issue.
any one have same problem?
if you have solution please sand me e-mail.

[email protected]

[Jaxian]

The config file, the manuals and your license for Mach3 are all sent separately on a CD to you in the mail. They are not on the computer when it arrives, that's just a generic Mach3 install. Mine arrived a week or so behind the machine itself.

The 9 pin connectors as you found out don't have enough reach to get to the locking nuts on the motor connectors. You can cut the little finger twist screws on the cables and use a longer nut which is the right way but time consuming finding the right bolts.

I used two zip ties looped through the inside of the bolts to hold it together from hard pulls then just used that self fusing tape to make it a coolant and debris tight connection. The connectors used on both the cables and the motors are not rated for liquids or heavy debris and won't tolerate tons of junk on them. I know, given where they are that makes no sense. But given that it's a five minute fix to make them solid and sealed it's not a big deal to fix.

As far as the vice, yeah the ST-91 is a generic and the alignment guides need to be filed or milled to a T shape to get a nice fit. Again, annoying but about 30 minutes work and it fits fine. More annoying is it's tendency to move when you crank down the clamp. I don't want to put any more force on the table but so far it has held for the things I have done. John recommends to use an allan bolt and lathe it to size so it will fit perfect but it was easier to just file them down than try to find the right bolt work with.

As mentioned above, the machine has a lot of silly little things that need to be fixed, like blocking that center groove above the rear stepper motor housing or all the coolant and debris will go right on top of the gear and belt and ruin them. But the alternative 3 in 1's are junk design wise in comparison to the Shopmaster and "real" machines are either a mill or lathe and each component even used cost double or more than the Patriot.

Go to Tormach's website and price the 1100. I believe it is the one that matches up specs wise with the Patriot mill and you will find the price when optioned the same nearly triple. And it is considered cheap junk by the machinists I have spoken to. Have to keep perspective or you will get VERY frustrated. You get a lot for what a Patriot costs but at the same time it is FAR from done or ready to use without a lot of little 'fixing'.

For the tape I mentioned just Google "Self fusing tape" there are tons of it out there to be had. Hope this helps.

[sshroff100]

i just sand you photo wire is not connect according to wire drawing only 3 wire connected, should i connect according to wire drawing?

[sshroff100]

jaxian
missing wiring...i think......

[sshroff100]

here is photohttp://www.cnczone.com/forums/galler...php?photo=6094

[tropopv]

here is photoMessage - My Photo Gallery

How to wire those to the VFD and setup Mach3 so that it controls speed and direction is in the manual and not very difficult to do. I guess JT thinks you should do that and a bunch of little config changes yourself...I personally think the machine should come 100% fully operational without modifications, but it's not my company.

[instructor37]

here is photoMessage - My Photo Gallery

You need to read your manual again- JT sends the machine out in a " beginners" format with manual controls of the spindle speeds. He asks that you become familiar with the machine functions and capabilities before going to the full controls with threading, spindle control, tapping etc. His reason is that most of his customers are beginners. In order to step up to those higher functions you have to hook up some extra wires on the machine and also make changes to the Mach 3 and VFD settings. Jumping ahead of your experience level can cause you and him a lot of grief.