[bogiestl]

Looks like I'm 99% going in this direction. I'll know more in a couple of months, but for now I'm going to start getting the ducks marching in somewhat the same direction...

Overall objective/mission statement for the Turnkey Project: A four axis CNC system capable of machining a cigarette-pack-sized envelope (but larger is more better, so X2 and below are not being considered). I wish to achieve this with a minimal amount of time wrenching on the hardware or developing solutions - I do not wish to reinvent the wheel, even if it is rounderer and more rolly. I do, however, wish to know how stuff goes together. Off-the-shelf parts sourcing is preferred over I-made-it, even though I have access to a machine shop which has a mill big enough to chuck a Bridgeport in...

At this point, I'm assuming a Hoss G0704 conversion with mounts from the Ebay guy, and a fourth axis rotary from Sherline (just need small).

I do not need fast rapids, etc., but I do need fairly accurate cutting... I'm figuring that it's going to spend a lot more time cutting than whippin' around.

So... What is the most "idiot friendly" controller combo for a four-axis rig?

I'm probably going to go with Mach over EMC just because I don't feel like screwing around with Ubuntu again for a while...

So... CAD software > CAM software > Mach3 > Motion Controller board > Gecko 540 > 3x nema 23, 1x nema 34 for the z.

I'd like to add in the future stuff like speed control, power drawbar, tool changer, but to get up and running, they're in "phase 18" for the present.

So, what are people liking? And please, tell me if I'm screwing up - I have thick skin.

I've been the shopmonkey in a mixed manual/cnc shop for the past year.

Gonna buy a copy of G-Wizard and the speed/feed stuff - I figure I'll save that much on tooling breakage.

CAD-wise, I've got experience with Autocad, but not a lot of 3d stuff.

As far as motion control, the smoothstepper looks like it has a good installed base, but will it handle a four axis setup? Likewise with the Gecko540 - should I consider something beefier?

[hoss2006]

Well, the plans I made are for diyers that want to save some money and machine their own mounts,
if you plan to buy the ready made mounts on ebay there's no point in getting my plans,
they aren't compatible.
Just a heads up so you can save some cash.
Hoss

[jeremy0203]

lol yeah, wouldnt really be a hoss conversion if you buy the mounts from billy. the plans from Hoss are completely different style mounts. But im sure Hoss wouldnt mind you throwing a little cash his way, haha.

[bogiestl]

Well, he's gonna sell me some DVDs... Who knows, between now and then I might decide that it's worth it to tell my boss that I'm going to do this, and take the "OMG, that's going to be SO cute..." flak that will occur, and make the chips myself...

[Signal9]

If you got access to a full machineshop. Then your buy a 12 pack for your pals and let them see Hoss's DIY specs so they can make the mounts for you.

You will be saving a ton of change to invest into the others parts you will need to buy.

[bogiestl]

I -work- in a full manual and cnc machine shop... Could make the parts, but I'd probably have to do it after midnight or on a holiday to avoid the "Gee, that weighs less than two tons - you gonna use it for a paperweight?" and "So, we're gonna stick a mold plate on that..." routine...

It's easier to buy the pieces. Believe me. The minimill is for -me-.

[wizard]

Why? Well some might argue for the extra mass and the possibility of reinforcing the column biput I have another concern. That is a chip tray that drains any flood coolant you may use. Actually any sort of coolant or cutting fluid.

You might say why would I use flood coolant or any other sort of system. Well I look at posts where people CNC their machines and see a common thread here. That is faster machining and or better finishes. So while you may not look forward to coolant use you may find yourself changing your mind in the future. So my thinking is that if you have access to a shop equipped with the required machinery you could produce the ultimate chip pan. Mill some pads on the plate to support the mill and then carve out the plate to drain to an easily accessible port/trap. A chunk of 1-1/2 steel ought to do it, though it needs to be big enough to allow axis movements. Done right it will add a couple of hundred pounds mass to.

You would have to get the boss to sell you the steel. Normally I would even suggest such a thing as even many of the machine shops around here don't have such materials laying around. In your case it sounds like you work in a place that works with such materials on a daily basis. As you perfect your machine and turn it into a machining center that plate becomes a handy place to weld or bolt an enclosure to or fasten other handy accessories.

You probably could enlist the help of the programmers at work. They should be able to generate the cad files in no time and the NC files even faster.

I -work- in a full manual and cnc machine shop... Could make the parts, but I'd probably have to do it after midnight or on a holiday to avoid the "Gee, that weighs less than two tons - you gonna use it for a paperweight?" and "So, we're gonna stick a mold plate on that..." routine...

It's easier to buy the pieces. Believe me. The minimill is for -me-.

[bogiestl]

That is an idea... Already planning something along those lines... I've also considered some sort of I-beam rigidity enhancement for the Z, but I'll have to have my hands on it to figure further... I figure whatever I add, unless it is welded, is only as strong as those grade 8s and the threads...

I should be able to program and set up a coolant table without a lot of hassle... Make it of 1018 and call it good... Shopmonkey can program a big rough-out scoopy thing if he wants... (and was top of his class back when he took a course in Autocad, back when his boss thought that since he was a graphic designer that he needed to know cad...).

(actually was considering welding up a table with a couple of big 1018 thick/heavy rails on top, with a chip/coolant pan underneath... Probably a big plastic tray... Set it up like the lathe I use, so that the chips all drop through the table instead of mounding up on top of something.)

[wizard]

That is an idea... Already planning something along those lines... I've also considered some sort of I-beam rigidity enhancement for the Z, but I'll have to have my hands on it to figure further... I figure whatever I add, unless it is welded, is only as strong as those grade 8s and the threads...

Bolts are fine for something like that. If you are looking at reinforcing the column I have to wonder if you are buying a machine that might be considered a bit on the small size?

In any event the ultimate chip pan is a smart move. Coolant gets all over the place even with the most careful of application. So a panel with panels around the machine to control the flying coolant would be very useful.

I should be able to program and set up a coolant table without a lot of hassle... Make it of 1018 and call it good... Shopmonkey can program a big rough-out scoopy thing if he wants... (and was top of his class back when he took a course in Autocad, back when his boss thought that since he was a graphic designer that he needed to know cad...).

It would likely end up heavier that the entire machine but this can be considered a good thing. On top of that a suitably carved out plate could easily pass as the machines bench with a few legs attached.

(actually was considering welding up a table with a couple of big 1018 thick/heavy rails on top, with a chip/coolant pan underneath...

Sounds good. As long as you arrangement allows separating the coolant from the chips I think you would be good. This especially so if the chip tray can be pulled out to allow quick trips to the dumpster. Anything that helps cleanup is a bonus in my mind. Maybe a little chip conveyor 😃

Probably a big plastic tray... Set it up like the lathe I use, so that the chips all drop through the table instead of mounding up on top of something.)

Obviously you have thought a bit about this. I'd make the tray out of perforated SS myself. That to allow coolant recovery or separation.

[bogiestl]

I'm just going to give it a gentle tilt, and plumb in a recovery hose to the tank at the low point. I'm trying to be "simple" and "easy," not "elegant," "complicated" and "expensive."

[bogiestl]

I may be driving the van to Springfield tomorrow. We'll see...

[bogiestl]

Okay, drove on Saturday. So sue me...

And I'd called ahead, and they had some in stock. If you're interested, they've got about 40 more at Springfield.

If I figure the serial number right, I got the 696th one build in 2011... Or maybe not...

I told the slender young man at the cashier's desk, who cheerfully gave me a free hat, that my van was pretty stuffed, and that I'd need a hand getting it off the pallet and into the van. He assured me that there'd be a couple of strapping young men eager to help over at Door 30 of the warehouse.

1) Slow down as you turn into the warehouse drive - there's a dip.

2) The strapping young men were two fellas my age with a forklift, and a sense of "git'r'done" - Stuff got tossed, stuff got thrown, the doors on the van were opened wider than a wisdom tooth extraction, and the pallet and all went in.

So I drove it over to a buddy's shop where the evisceration and renovation will occur, since I don't wish to endure the verbal slings and arrows of the guy who owns about 30-40 tons of assorted big machines...

We got it out of the box. With hammer, a screwdriver, a pry bar, a pair of vise grips, two beers, and plenty of cursing. That box is never gonna be the same again.

We got it on a handtruck, and moved it to the rehabilitation point, directly in front of Buicksaurus, which was probably once someone's gramma's car, but is now getting a built 455, in hopes of it being a serious sleeper sled. But I digress...

The little bugger looks a lot lighter than it is. It's on the stand. With the pan turned the correct way. Not too many scratches. Really.

First issue: The manual is different from the machine. Looked at the "initial startup/break-in" section, and I'm going to remove all the cosmoline today, and move stuff around, and all that other fun stuff, but I didn't see anything about adding oil to the spindle head. And the manual doesn't show the oil inspection glass that is on the side of the head next to the speed control. Should I add oil? How much? What kind? WHERE?

Second issue: I'm a moron. Wanted to be sure it works, so we plugged it in, I finally figured out how to open the thing to Hit Da Button, and... nothing... Checked the fuse. Good. More beer. Okay... go through the manual, because this thing is HEAVY and I don't want to get it back out past Buicksaurus... And finally, toward back of manual, I saw something on the order of "chip guard safety interlock limit switch" or some such. The little clear thing that's going to get in the way and get scarred up into opacity by flying metal had to be swung into the "closed" position. Doh... I guess I'll figure out how to hacksaw it off later...

Third issue: Okay, Lucy, this drawbar doesn't look like the bridgeports I'm familiar with... What's with the little nut in the middle of the big one? Do I do anything with the big one? Waded through the manual some, will wade more.

Gonna order a set of disks from Hoss today or tomorrow (for all the overview), and probably contact Billy for some ready-made mounts, and the guy in St. Louis for the ball screws... Keling's going to sell me one of the super-duper-digital setups. Getting there...

[hoss2006]

Congrats on the new mill!
No oil, they added the viewport but the head doesn't hold oil.
The drawbar is a captured design but it doesn't work well.
Better to remove the retaining cup and hold the spindle with the new pin wrench and
tighten/loosen the drawbar with the 8mm wrench iirc.
you can bypass the guard if you want.
Hoss

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxHoSifZqss"]G0704 Chip Guard Bypass.wmv - YouTube[/ame]

[bogiestl]

Kewl... I think one of the first orders of business is going to be getting some paint remover into the table... The t-nut set I got is a wee bit tight...

[bogiestl]

Okay, proceeding apace... Have ordered a coupla disks from Hoss, and they're in the mail.

Have researched a bit, and now it's looking like I'll be milling Hoss mounts, because the Billy mounts only use a 5/8" screw for the Z, and Hoss uses 3/4" - It's only a wee little bit, but stiffness on that strikes me as being a good thing...

It looks like Automation Technologies (formerly Keling... we're not confused...) is selling a pre-built control that will work, save me a bit of soldering and mounting hassle. They've got one that has some other stuff built in, but they're bundling it with some motors that aren't in the "Hoss Super Duty Digital" spec sheet, so... Looks like they're going to get about a $1200 or so here shortly... I'll be contacting Chris at CJM for the ball screws, and probably shooting an order into McMaster for misc mount stuff... Probably just going to order cut chunks from Speedymetals, rather than root through our scrap pile...

I have some questions on the Keling/AT section of this forum - do they ever check in?

[jdurkin]

Billy supplies 2 mounts for the z
iVe just got the bigger one for a 20mm (3/4) screw

[jeremy0203]

Billy supplies 2 mounts for the z
iVe just got the bigger one for a 20mm (3/4) screw

i use a 1" on my z

[jeremy0203]

Okay, proceeding apace... Have ordered a coupla disks from Hoss, and they're in the mail.

Have researched a bit, and now it's looking like I'll be milling Hoss mounts, because the Billy mounts only use a 5/8" screw for the Z, and Hoss uses 3/4" - It's only a wee little bit, but stiffness on that strikes me as being a good thing...

It looks like Automation Technologies (formerly Keling... we're not confused...) is selling a pre-built control that will work, save me a bit of soldering and mounting hassle. They've got one that has some other stuff built in, but they're bundling it with some motors that aren't in the "Hoss Super Duty Digital" spec sheet, so... Looks like they're going to get about a $1200 or so here shortly... I'll be contacting Chris at CJM for the ball screws, and probably shooting an order into McMaster for misc mount stuff... Probably just going to order cut chunks from Speedymetals, rather than root through our scrap pile...

I have some questions on the Keling/AT section of this forum - do they ever check in?

why spend so much extra on this pre-built controller when you can just get separate components for like half. from not wanting to buy the premade mounts because you dont like the price, it seems odd you would spend so much more to not have to run a handful of wires and bolt some stuff down.

[bogiestl]

It's not the price on the mounts - it's "will this work, for sure, the first time, with minimal mess-with time."

I know I can get a "set up and ready" pair of ball screws from Chris that will work with the Hoss mounts. I work in a CNC shop, and I can burn a little midnight cutting oil... The real issue is the teasing I'm going to get from my boss over the "minimill" project...

As far as the controller, everything in one box, presumably already tested, plug it in and go, is going to save me a bit of hassle and learning curve... That,and I occasionally tend to pick up soldering irons from the wrong end...

[Winnfield]

There is a tendency to oversize ballscrews when building a machine. It really doesn't help most of the time since it's being turned way down anyway, and is just more mass to get going. Spec'ing them is a complex engineering task, I am sure, but I can say, with confidence, that 16mm is enough. Tormach uses a screw that is smaller than 16mm for the Z axis on the 770, which is much heavier than the head on this machine. It's a higher quality ground screw, so the nut likely has more circuits, so more balls, etc. so I am sure has a higher load rating, but I see the solution to that is using a double nut to handle the load, not a bigger screw. Just something to consider since a company like Tormach already has done your research for you, and they have a wealth of engineering analysis at their disposal.