[bonmotwang]

Maybe I am going through a typical path:
Step 1) Registered on CNCZone
Step 2) Started reading the project logs
Step 3) Bought a CNC router
Step 4) Reading more project logs, trying to make my router better
Step 5) Bought a bunch of parts
Step 6) Started Designing Machines
Step 7) Having friends making parts
Step 8) Thinking about buying a manual milling machine to make parts by myself ...

Now I am at step 8)

Seriously thinking about a manual milling machine. I think this is a right way to start. I am an electronics designer and consultant. Believe it or not my whole house is in solidworks, even got my faucet modeled.

Again, I will say I learned a lot from this forum.

So back to the topic. I am buying a manual milling machine. It will be in the basement of my new house. Budget is $2000 to $2500. For good reasons may bump up the budget.

Thanks for HOSSMACHINE's Mill Comparison Sheet. I started from that sheet and narrowed down the options.
This is his sheet:

Because I am planning to use the mill to machine parts for the vertical CNC machines or routers. I think I will need the long X travel. Just talked to Pat at Machine Tools Warehouse, he got a few in stock and new batch coming. I am planning to get the MD001(IH Clone) in May or June. The price is $2300+$150shipping. Price looks good to me. and I know it is only the start...

Anyway, just want to have a good start point.
Everyone in Hoss's sheet looks pretty good to me. I also search the zone with those model numbers. Each one has its pros and cons. I picked MD001 pretty much by the travel, and of course it looks good!

This will be my first milling machine, the closest I have used is the drill press (I also use my CNC router + MACH3 doing 3D cut on wood and plastic).

Anybody with manual MD001 or IH 12Z can tell me if I am looking at the right machine to building VMC's?
The travel of the VMC will be in 12"x8"x4" envelope. accuracy aiming at 0.002"
It will use HIWIN linear rails.

Thanks

[Adam Worth]

Wow!Thanks a lot for the info and the positive attitude. I have never considered trying out manual tools...I'm sure it will take some time to get used to but I'm up for the task.
Have a great day!
___________________
Adam Worth
cnc milling machines
milling machine

[Mad Welder]

Gee, bonmotwang you're doing your home work.....as you're in research mode have a look at the option of a three phase motor as opposed to 220V single phase, the three phase motor consumes less current than the single phase and your 2HP single phase will run up fairly high electricity costs.........and you could use a single phase in and three phase out inverter (VFD) to run a three phase motor from your 220V single phase house hold power supply........

[DonKes]

Gee, bonmotwang you're doing your home work.....as you're in research mode have a look at the option of a three phase motor as opposed to 220V single phase, the three phase motor consumes less current than the single phase and your 2HP single phase will run up fairly high electricity costs.........and you could use a single phase in and three phase out inverter (VFD) to run a three phase motor from your 220V single phase house hold power supply........

A 3 phase motor driven by a phase converter produces 2/3 the power of it's rating.

Unless there is a lot of heat somewhere, the power input to either case approximately equal if the power produced is the same.

My power meter measures POWER not current.

There may be a lot of other reasons for using 3 phase, but saving money on electricity is not one of them.

Don

[SCzEngrgGroup]

A 3 phase motor driven by a phase converter produces 2/3 the power of it's rating.

That is true for a static phase converter, but NOT for a VFD, which is the only sensible choice for driving a 3-phase motor these days.

Regards,
Ray L.

[bonmotwang]

Just moved into the new house. After settle down, I will order a BF20L from MTW, and CNC it.
New plan :-D
You know why? Those building threads you guys posted made me more confident to this direct CNC way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mad Welder]

.........Unless there is a lot of heat somewhere, the power input to either case approximately equal if the power produced is the same.......My power meter measures POWER not current..........Don

Hi there DonKes, just curious here as electricity isn't my speciality, and maybe I was giving bad advice here to bonmotwang and I hate to see guy's wasting money for no reason so you might educate me here too, but my understanding was that a three phase motor was more economical to run if using a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) Sensorless Vector Control (latest Technology) Inverter Single phase in 220V Three Phase out......and that power was a measure of current i.e. amps.....

What have I missed here? and how do you measure power?

[SCzEngrgGroup]

Hi there DonKes, just curious here as electricity isn't my speciality, and maybe I was giving bad advice here to bonmotwang and I hate to see guy's wasting money for no reason so you might educate me here too, but my understanding was that a three phase motor was more economical to run if using a VFD (Variable Frequency Drive) Sensorless Vector Control (latest Technology) Inverter Single phase in 220V Three Phase out......and that power was a measure of current i.e. amps.....

What have I missed here? and how do you measure power?

Power is a function of both voltage and current. For a simple, resistive device like a light bulb, power is the product of voltage times current. But for reactive loads like a motor, the phase difference between the voltage waveform and the current waveform is also a factor (this is call the "power factor"). A single phase motor producing 1HP and a 3 phase motor producing 1HP will both consume roughly the same electrical power. There is no free lunch. A VFD has no effect on efficiency whatsoever. It simply converts the single phase AC into DC, then converts the DC into 3-phase AC. But the power going into the VFD will be roughly equal to the power produced by the motor (minus all inefficiencies in the VFD (minor) and the motor (major), which probably total about 10-15% on average).

So, a VFD will make no measurable difference whatsoever in your electric bill.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Mad Welder]

...........So, a VFD will make no measurable difference whatsoever in your electric bill.

Regards,
Ray L.

Nice one thanks for the explaination Ray

and bonmotwang......oops......sorry for the inacurate advice there:wave:

[Mad Welder]

.........minus all inefficiencies in the VFD (minor) and the motor (major)........Regards, Ray L.

just digesting that again HimyKabibble...and this is new territory for me but what are the inefficiencies?

[SCzEngrgGroup]

just digesting that again HimyKabibble...and this is new territory for me but what are the inefficiencies?

In the VFD, they're small - switching losses in the FETs, and, as always, heat generated in the FETs, diodes, and other semiconductors, due to their on resistance. Probably not more than a few percent of the total on average. In the motor, the losses are much greater - resistive losses (heat) in the windings, eddy current losses, and, of course, friction and windage. Typically somewhere between 10-20% for most motors.

Regards,
Ray L.

[Winnfield]

Slightly off-topic, but I wonder about it a lot: Why can a 1hp DC motor be huge, and another, of the same hp and speed rating be significantly smaller? Is the large one (like a 56 frame) larger than it needs to be? I wonder why people don't use the 1hp 56 frame DC motors to drive spindles on these mills? Can you tell me why that might be? I'd like to do that if there isn't a problem with it. Is it all in the controller?