[dinkyguitar]

HI All,

Been checking this place out ever since I became interested in building guitars. I have 1 guitar I put together but the body and neck were already built. I did however add some modifications to the body with a router.

I'm familiar with wood working, I work on computers for a living, have welding experience and like to build things, so I thought I'd put thse things together and build myself a cnc machine for making guitars.

My problem is that I'm so new to cnc machines I don't know what parts I need to build a machine large enough to make guitars. I am on a "home/wife" budget so unfortunately funds are limited.

So, what do I need to build a cnc machine for guitar building????

dinkyguitar

[jckstrthmghty]

I think budget really matters. Any idea how much you are willing to spend?

[dinkyguitar]

I'm hoping $1000.00 but since I'm new to CNC I'm not sure if that's realistic. I'm sure once I find out how much parts go for my budget will change.

I checked out this site and saw some package deals:

HobbyCNC EZ Driver Board Packages | HobbyCNC

I'm opting for the 305oz in. motors for $275 but I'm not sure if this is enough to route wood.

BTW, is there a list of components you need to build a cnc milling machine?

dinkyguitar

[KOC62]

One thing you can do is to imagine holding a wood router in your hand and manually start cutting your guitar parts. How big an area would your arms cover? That would give you a rough idea of the table size.

Now you want to mechanize your hand movements. You need something to hold the router firmly so it can't wiggle. Then you.......

When say "what parts I need", I can't determine what you already know about CNC. So perhaps you could be more specific.

Your performance requirements will dictate the parts selection, which in turn dictate the costs.

I spent about $600 for 4 stepper motors and its Gecko G540 drivers. Power supply I scrounged from an old 160W stereo amplifier. But I also used mdf for table, X, Y and Z axis along with cheap all-thread for lead screw, etc. So there are means to save but it can take time.

[dinkyguitar]

Thanks for the reply,

Well as for table area, I'm calculating 20" wide x 36" long and 4" deep. That will give me enough space for making the body, and then the neck.

As for the parts, here's what I know:

Computer to run the software (which I'm hoping the software won't be too expensive) and I already have a computer.

3 Step motors (not sure how strong they need to be)

Controllers for the step motors

Router of some sort

Linear bearing and rods (although depending on budget I might have to think of alternatives)

Not sure what they are called it but those long screws that move your x, y, and z axis

Not sure what else I need.

dinkyguitar

[Java_AZ]

$1000 is a bit unrealistic for the over all build. Your going to need at least a 4 foot by 4 foot machine to make a guitar. You also don't want to just start buying parts without knowing exactly what machine your going to build. If this is going to be a production machine,your going to be better off buying high quality components that are going to last. My advice to is do a lot more research before diving into a build

[KOC62]

Computer software is free if you use say EMC2, but it is Linux and doesn't run on a Window's machine. Mach3 will run on Windows and cost about $175 for a licensed version. These two pieces of software do the same function. They are used for controlling your motors via the printer port. You need one of them. There are other companies that make similar software but these two are most often used here. You also need a hardware driver (controller) between the printer port and your motors.

You may also need software where you draw the guitar body parts. This software will then export G-code which is used by EMC2 or Mach 3, or whatever other controller software is out there.

Stepper motor size is dependent on the weight of your moving parts, like the gantry which rides on the Y-axis and also holds the Z-axis along with your router.

"Lead screw" is the long threaded rod that is driven by a motor to move a given axis. They can be expensive, especially the long ones.

I'm using a 2HP wood router and have four 425oz-in stepper motors. I began by looking at the "Joes 2006" and he was cuttng parts using a 200oz-in size motors. Yeah, that long ago I started day dreaming. I still haven't got a working CNC. Maybe by Summer.

[jckstrthmghty]

Pretty small budget to be honest but I think you understand that.

Your linear bearing and rods will probably be gas pipe with skate bearings. I'm sure you can go the v groove bearing with aluminum angle for guide rails for a little bit more.

Your leadscrew can still be acme with some anti backlash nuts.

Table, probably MDF. Good thing there are a lot open source of builds to choose from. 20x36 is easily big enough to cut guitars.

Hobbycnc is a popular choice cause the price is great. Check out probotix as well.

Software isn't cheap. You can go linux and emc2 and save the $150 for mach3.

There are many cutting templates at this site for standard types of guitar bodies. Maybe a few neck designs as well. If you want to customize one or create your own you'll need some desgin software and that will cost.

If you have to build the whole table yourself do some reading on joes2006 versions. That will give you a lot of good ideas about supported rails for both the x and the y axis. I wish I could've gone this route myself. Easy enough to make a few jigs for accuracy. MDF is super cheap so you can make a few mistakes and recover.

I`m going to try cutting a hollow tele body on my jgro once I get everything set up. Should only be a few more weeks for me as I wait for the final parts to arrive in the mail. My build has cost me about $1300 so far. $600 for vcarve pro is going to hurt.

[ger21]

Your going to need at least a 4 foot by 4 foot machine to make a guitar.

While I agree with everything else you said, a 24x36 machine is plenty large enough to build a guitar.

But, you better plan on spending at least $2000-$2500 for a decent machine.

If you have good woodworking skills, a Joe's 2006 would probably be the cheapest way to go. I'm not sure of the exact size of it, so you may need to modify it a little.

[louieatienza]

If you're making Strats and Teles, a Strat is 18" x 12.75" x 1.75". A Tele is 12". You'll need about a 3-1/2" x 27" blank to do a neck.

Also, remember there are a lot of free 3D CAD stuff, but 3D CAM can be pricey...

[dinkyguitar]

Thanks again,

I measured my Jackson guitar and 18" is plenty wide. The neck was like you said around 27".....So a table size of 28" x 32" should work....

I have plenty of reading ahead of me if I'm going to do this...

dinkyguitar

[louieatienza]

Thanks again,

I measured my Jackson guitar and 18" is plenty wide. The neck was like you said around 27".....So a table size of 28" x 32" should work....

I have plenty of reading ahead of me if I'm going to do this...

dinkyguitar

I take it you play a Dinky? Used to have a Dinky Reverse that I installed a MIDI pickup onto, got stolen....

My table is 25 x 32 and it is plenty. Dinky is about 7/8 the size of a typical Strat.

The important thing is having enough z clearance for the body (1-3/4") plus the bit flute length, plus your spoilboard thickness, plus whatever distance your spindle protrudes from the carriage, plus a safe "z" distance for the bit to travel over the work, including any fixtures or clamps, etc., and your z "top" distance. Currently I have about 5-1/2", and with a 1/4" spoilboard underneath, and a 2" flute bit, it doesn't leave a lot of room for the z to travel. Usually 8/4 D2S lumber is around 1-13/16" to 1-7/8" thickness, and I also surface on the CNC, so I wish I had another 1/2" - 1" of z height!

[carvemylog]

I'm building guitars on my CNC. I have 22"x32"x5" of travel. The table is bigger, about 29"x40". I think you'll find it will $50 dollar you to death with all the small things like hardware, etc that it will be tough to keep it around $1000. I'm sure it can be done, but too many compromises and you could end up with a weak machine with a lot of backlash, play, etc which will reduce your cutting speed..

I spent about $2500-$2800 and am pretty happy with it, although I wish I would have spent a little more and used supported rails on my Y axis instead of the 3/4" rods. When the X axis changes directions I can see the gantry wobble a little so doing things like hitting the E stop when cutting a fretboard will leave little chatter marks in the wood.

[dinkyguitar]

louieatienza,

"Dinky is about 7/8 the size of a typical Strat"

Thanks for reminding me...hence the name "Dinky". It never occurs to me that it's actually smaller in scale..

"I take it you play a Dinky? Used to have a Dinky Reverse that I installed a MIDI pickup onto, got stolen...."

I feel for you...I have 2 1992 Dinky's, both have the trans maple tops, 1 in red and the other in cherry burst..They are very fine guitars. The real MOP inlays, German JT-590...I have another guitar I built modeled after Warren DeMartini's Hawaiian Koa. Mines alder with a MIJ neck that I refretted with SS jumbo frets. That one beleive it or not plays better than the Dinky's.

What is a spoilboard? Is that what you attach your work to?

Also, to get 5 1/2" of travel you would need a router bit at least that long right? So what factors determine your z axis. And is 5 1/2" travel long enough?

(sorry for the question) What programs are you guys using? Do I need 1 program to design then import it into another? Or can Solidworks 2012 do it all?

The interface between your computer to the control box, does it need to be a parallel cable?

BTW, if I need to increase the budget I might as well. After all, products are only as good as the machines your using to make them...

dinkyguitar

[ger21]

What is a spoilboard? Is that what you attach your work to?

Yes. It alows you to cut through your parts without cutting into the table.

Also, to get 5 1/2" of travel you would need a router bit at least that long right? So what factors determine your z axis. And is 5 1/2" travel long enough?

No, not a 5-1/2" bit.
Your lowest Z axis position would be with the shortest bit you'll use reaching the table. with a small tool, the collet might need to be within 3/4" of the spoilboard.
The highest Z position needs to allow the longest tool you'll use to clear any parts. So, if you have a 3" tool sticking out of the collet, and a 2" thick part, you'll need 5" + a clearance amount. You also need to clear any clamps you might be using. Call it 6".
Subtract the lowest Z from the highest Z, and that's the minimum travel you'll need. In this example, it would be 5 1/4".

I'd add a bit to that to be safe.

(sorry for the question) What programs are you guys using? Do I need 1 program to design then import it into another? Or can Solidworks 2012 do it all?

Solidworks will create your models, then you need a CAM program to create the g-code for the machine. There are tons of CAM programs available, in all different price ranges.
I use MeshCAM and Aspire.

The interface between your computer to the control box, does it need to be a parallel cable?

If you use Mach3 by itself, then yes. But, you can by a hardware pulse generator for Mach3 that allows you to use USB or Ethernet. These will set you back between $175-$1000, depending on which you choose. The new Ethernet Smoothstepper is getting very good reviews, and is about $200.

[louieatienza]

Like Gerry said, I'd probably err on about 6" of z travel. To cut a 1-7/8" body you only really need a 2" bit. The spoilboard is a sacrificial board used for the bit to cut through your workpiece and leave a clean edge. It also keeps your actual table surface safe (unless you really screw up!) You surface it to normalize or level the table relative to your x and y axis. This ensures you get consistent and accurare depths of cut.

SolidWorks would be perfect. As far as 3D CAM you have to see how far you want to go. Inexpensive 3D CAM can machine 3D surfaces, though you'll have very limited control as to how those surfaces are machined. With some, you'll have to machine the entire work, regardless of whether or not you have flat surfaces. I believe you can "trick" some inexpensive 3D CAM to do 3S slices, you would make the first slice about .005", so on the second slice it would ignore the flats. And that's what would eat up an enormous part of machining time. Also some CAM won't import native SolidWorks files, you might have to export them into a .dxf, so do some reading. Some CAM also works as a plugin for SolidWorks, so you can retain the same user interface. Some software companies charge extra just for SolidWorks import.

Mine was a USA dinky, San Dimas era, with Floyd Rose and all maple neck. I used to collect San Dimas era Charvels, mainly the prepro era (pre 1982). I have a couple left, including a 1979 EVH. I also have a couple 1984 Kramer Barettas, one CA red and one cream. 1982 Kramer Pacer with custom graphic. I have a couple Boogie Bodies guitars as well.

Part of my drive to make guitars and parts stem from my passion for collecting, and for bringing back the early days of the Cali electric guitar movement (Wayne Charvel, Dave Schecter, Tom Anderson, Grover Jackson, Lynn Ellsworth) and bring it to the modern era...

[MikeyC38]

Hi Dinky

I've been following your thread with interest as I am going through this whole process as well. I too am building a cnc machine to make guitar bodies and necks for profit as a side interest. I have nearly completed my design and it has taken me about 2yrs to really understand ALL the issues involved in this undertaking. As everybody has said, your budget is too low. If you want to seed things up I have no hesistation in recommending the plans from David Steele at Solsylva CNC Plans~ Home Page. His machines have been built by many on this forum (just do a search) and are well designed. The $35 I spent buying his plans was money well spent. I have not built from the plans but got good ideas from them. In the UK good quality wood is SO expensive so I will be using aluminium extrusions, which is less than half the price of wood !. Aluminium extrusion is stiffer, stronger and not subject to atmospheric variations. Also I invested in buying C7-quality ballscrews, anti-backlash ballnuts, supported round rails, BF/BK bearings and couplings for $427 (from chai on ebay). This puts the cost up but will result in a machine which will be able to do what I want now and in the future.

So please take your time, immerse yourself on this forum, learn the terminology, look at other peoples designs - not all the designs there are good especially in the design of the gantry - I'm on the 3rd and final design cycle of mine (using 3d CAD and design criticisim from other forum members) but I know it will result in a machine which will meet my expectations.

Once you have designed the machine, you will have to work out what CAD and CAM package to use! I have reviewed 6 packages already and the really nice CAM ones cost in the UK £1000 ($1500) - so I have to make a choice / investment. As I said earlier, it is not really for hobby use but to make guitars for sale. However I still have a limited budget.

You can PM if you wish - I have a nearly finished design and a spreadsheet with the evaluation criteria and results for the CAM packages. I use TurboCAD 15 Platinum Pro as my CAD package

Hope this helps

Mike

[louieatienza]

louieatienza,

"Dinky is about 7/8 the size of a typical Strat"

Thanks for reminding me...hence the name "Dinky". It never occurs to me that it's actually smaller in scale..

"I take it you play a Dinky? Used to have a Dinky Reverse that I installed a MIDI pickup onto, got stolen...."

I feel for you...I have 2 1992 Dinky's, both have the trans maple tops, 1 in red and the other in cherry burst..They are very fine guitars. The real MOP inlays, German JT-590...I have another guitar I built modeled after Warren DeMartini's Hawaiian Koa. Mines alder with a MIJ neck that I refretted with SS jumbo frets. That one beleive it or not plays better than the Dinky's.

What is a spoilboard? Is that what you attach your work to?

Also, to get 5 1/2" of travel you would need a router bit at least that long right? So what factors determine your z axis. And is 5 1/2" travel long enough?

(sorry for the question) What programs are you guys using? Do I need 1 program to design then import it into another? Or can Solidworks 2012 do it all?

The interface between your computer to the control box, does it need to be a parallel cable?

BTW, if I need to increase the budget I might as well. After all, products are only as good as the machines your using to make them...

dinkyguitar

I saw a rerun of That Metal Show, with Warren DeMartini playing during the intros and outros of the commercials. They also had Dave Mustaine as a guest for interview, and every time DeMartini went into a solo, Mustaine had this look on his face, it was pretty hilarious! My fave DeMartini guitar would probably be Frenchie, followed by the snakeskin, Charvels.

As for budget and what to build, there are a couple trains of thought on this. I started with plans from Solsylva and made a very serviceable wood machine. I also got to 'cut my teeth' on it, and wasn't worried about running into the sides or cutting into the table. After over a year, I rebuilt my machine, using used linear components, but keeping the same leadscrews and steppers, and made all the parts for the machine using my Solsylva.

The other train of thought is, you have a good mill, lathe, and other metalworking tools where you can accurately fabricate parts. It helps to really plan ahead this way, as dead ends become very expensive!

If you only have woodworking tools, many here (including myself) has made wood routers with such tools, then use the router to make better parts for itself. If it is for hobby, you may not need to go to great lengths to get great results. If you're thinking of going into business, then sturdiness and reliability and repeatability are key and you'll need a beefier machine. I had about 30 hours build into my Solsylva and it was one of the best 30 hours I ever spent!

[carvemylog]

Since CNC machines costs seem to be exponential as you make them bigger, another thing to consider to keep your costs down would be to build a smaller machine, maybe 20"x15". It would still be big enough to cut a body, but would mean you would have to make your necks in two sections, the fretboard and then move the piece to cut the headstock separately. If you build hold down jigs with locating pins, this isn't as difficult as it sounds. I made a neckthru neck that was much longer then my X axis travel and did this - it worked out pretty well.

[dinkyguitar]

Thanks...

As far as CAM software (the software responsible to taking the design and relaying the information to the cnc machine for cutting) what is a good choice?

BTW louieatienza, I watch that metal show also and saw Warren...he's my favorite guitarist. I've been listening to him since the 80's, but I have to tell you, he disappointed me on that metal show...Seemed like he didn't know what to play, which was strange because he's legendary....

dinkyguitar