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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    39
    Been away from the project for awhile...had to get the new plane ready for the Memorial Day flying session. I hope everyone had a good safe weekend!

    I finally got the drive belts installed. The "Y" was out of square .009. I managed to get it square by adjusting the cog belt on one side. The belt clamps aren't pretty but they hold good. Now I'm ready for the part I'm not sure about...wiring. There's a guy I work with...I'm sure every one knows one of these guys. If an electron ever ran thru it Denny knows all about it...and it's no BS...he does! So I'm going to enlist his help to as he puts it "Keep the magic smoke inside"

    The black hose on top of the "Y" is actually the hose from my HVLP sprayer. It's as flexible as a wet noodle, has a 7/8" ID, 15' long, and a brand new one is only about $30. I'm going to try to build a trough out of 1/4" luan for it to roll into and see if it will work as a cable tray.

    Icecube, I added the fan to help cool the "X" axis motor...might be overkill?

    More to come.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    39
    I must have bumped something on the keyboard last post went out without the pix
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_1016.JPG   IMG_1017.JPG   IMG_1018.JPG   IMG_1020.JPG  

    IMG_1021.JPG   IMG_1022.JPG   IMG_1023.JPG   IMG_1024.JPG  


  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1955
    Great craftsmanship. I will be honest though, I am wondering if your belts are a bit narrow for moving that kind of mass around.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    39
    Hi All. I've been away from the project for awhile, but I am getting closer. I finally got it off the workbench and onto it's own stand. It's amazing how heavy something can get as you keep adding parts to it.
    After searching the net and the "ZONE" I decided I really liked Sparks and Chips idea for the cable chain. My drill press is a real piece of crap so I decided to use a slot for the string instead of drilling all those holes. The slot is 1/8" deep and the saw blade wide (about .110) I also had to make up a jig to cut the 12 degree angles and one to hold things square while I glued them up. I used the thick super glue to assemble all of it, including the string. It seems like it will hold up good. Time will tell.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails C CHAIN1.JPG   C CHAIN2.JPG   C CHAIN3.JPG   C CHAIN4.JPG  

    C CHAIN5.JPG   C CHAIN6.JPG   C CHAIN7.JPG   C CHAIN8.JPG  

    C CHAIN9.JPG   C CHAIN10.JPG   C CHAIN11.JPG   C CHAIN12.JPG  

    C CHAIN13.JPG   C CHAIN14.JPG   C CHAIN16.JPG   C CHAIN17.JPG  

    STAND.JPG   WIRING1.JPG   WIRING2.JPG   WIRING3.JPG  


  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    267
    Love the DIY cable chain!! Question, would it have been easier to make this as a one piece "tube" so to speak then just cut the pieces from the one long stock? I was thinking you could just glue the top and bottom to the two sides, then cut your groove for the string and then cut the pieces free. You would then have to cut all the angles but you had to do that anyway right? Whats your thoughts on that since you have already made one?

    Great job btw on the entire build, really nice!!

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    39
    I did try to glue up a tube . . . a real pain in the neck trying to get all the edges flush I glued up two right angles first but it was still a pain. It went into the wood stove :-)

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    39
    Been sickr n' a dog the last two months (no more flu shots for me) but it is up a running! I few things I am not happy with are the Delrin couplings. They keep working loose ... I ordered steel ones to replace them. Also the aluminium rail is already showing signs of peening over on the small radiused side. I will be replacing these with steel or that 90 degree track I've seen for sale.
    Denny must have cleaned out his shop because he gave me all the cabling for the entire machine. Even the 120v line for the router is sheilded cable. I owe him quite a few hours of machine time. He also put together the 'puter with the Mach3 on it and he is finishing another one up for use as a CAD and CAM workstation. I posted the rest of the pictures I have and a short video of it cutting some foam (note the high tech 1 gal. hold down system)

    The console idea came from one that somebody had posted on the Rockcliff site. I still have to put a door on the front and get some paint on it. It will also have a blower that will blow filtered air into the cabinet and exhaust through all the "holes and gaps"
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails X LIMIT.JPG   Y HOME.JPG   IMG_1177.JPG   IMG_1178.JPG  

    IMG_1179.JPG   IMG_1180.JPG   IMG_1181.JPG   IMG_1182.JPG  

    IMG_1183.JPG   IMG_1184.JPG   IMG_1186.JPG   IMG_1187.JPG  

    IMG_1188.JPG   IMG_1189.JPG   IMG_1190.JPG   IMG_1191.JPG  


  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    39
    Forgot I can't upload the video It's in AVI format. I'll see if I can get it converted tomorrow.

    Also all the buttons and switches 'n stuff came from All Electronics.com
    If any one is interested I have a list with their part #s

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    267
    The black buttons on your console, are they push once for on, push again for off? If so I would love to have the part # for those!
    Nice job with everything, congrats!!

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    304
    Very nice, as much a work of art as a machine. I really enjoy seeing the mostly wooden builds like yours, it takes a lot more creativity than the stuff that I do. Congrats on getting it running!

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    73
    Very well built machine and I'm impressed with your woodworking skills. No doubt your programming skills will come in very handy now that you're ready to start cutting,

    I'd probably put a cover in front of the electronics tray to stop little fingers getting into the AC wiring.

    Well done.

    Richard

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1183
    Nice set up I agree great wood working skills looks very clean.

    Lou
    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc-router-table-machines/140832-cnc-software.html

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    853
    I like the umbilical cord too!
    Paul Rowntree
    Vectric Gadgets, WarpDriver, StandingWave and Topo available at PaulRowntree.weebly.com

  14. #34
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    5
    I am still looking for plans for my first build. I love your machine, I will be doing an all wood build as well thanks for all of the info. are you going to be putting up AUTOCAD drawings soon? if so thanks in advance.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    39
    ' been away from the ZONE for quite awhile. I retired in March this year...and that's when it started. I always logged on at work, the 'puter remembered my password for me. Guess who forgot his password after he retired and no longer had access to the 'puter at work? After what seems like forever I got an E-mail from the ZONE allowing me to log back in. YEA!!!!
    I been running the living daylight out the Mistress. It has well over 350 hrs on the clock. My observations...MACH 3, great! BOB, motors and drives from Automation Technologies...great! Vectric software, great! BuildyourCNC's design, (which I pretty much copied) great!...EXCEPT the aluminum rails are a NO NO. They only last about 100 hrs and then they get peened over and razor sharp. I tried using steel angle iron but I can't seem to get them smooth enough to work right (without chatter when it moves). Another issue I'm having is my "Z" losing steps. This rears it's ugly head after about 2hrs of running an 80% duty cycle. Did I mention I actually have paying work for the Mistress! The motor gets so hot you can't touch it. If I let it cool down, all is well in the kingdom for another 2 hrs. I've checked and dissassembled the "Z" axis a few times looking for binding but can't find anything that I can see is wrong. I can run the "Z" up and down with my fingers (motor removed).The motor is a 425oz. I'm wondering if I should have gone with the 625oz.??? I'm going to try a cooling fan on it like what I have on the "X" axis. Anybody...feel free to pipe up...I'm searching for a permanent solution. I'm sure this is one of those "I can't see the forest because all the trees are blocking my view"

    Greg

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5516
    Quote Originally Posted by Metalbender View Post
    ' been away from the ZONE for quite awhile. I retired in March this year...and that's when it started. I always logged on at work, the 'puter remembered my password for me. Guess who forgot his password after he retired and no longer had access to the 'puter at work? After what seems like forever I got an E-mail from the ZONE allowing me to log back in. YEA!!!!
    I been running the living daylight out the Mistress. It has well over 350 hrs on the clock. My observations...MACH 3, great! BOB, motors and drives from Automation Technologies...great! Vectric software, great! BuildyourCNC's design, (which I pretty much copied) great!...EXCEPT the aluminum rails are a NO NO. They only last about 100 hrs and then they get peened over and razor sharp. I tried using steel angle iron but I can't seem to get them smooth enough to work right (without chatter when it moves). Another issue I'm having is my "Z" losing steps. This rears it's ugly head after about 2hrs of running an 80% duty cycle. Did I mention I actually have paying work for the Mistress! The motor gets so hot you can't touch it. If I let it cool down, all is well in the kingdom for another 2 hrs. I've checked and dissassembled the "Z" axis a few times looking for binding but can't find anything that I can see is wrong. I can run the "Z" up and down with my fingers (motor removed).The motor is a 425oz. I'm wondering if I should have gone with the 625oz.??? I'm going to try a cooling fan on it like what I have on the "X" axis. Anybody...feel free to pipe up...I'm searching for a permanent solution. I'm sure this is one of those "I can't see the forest because all the trees are blocking my view"

    Greg
    Use a multi-start leadscrew on tht Z, maybe at least 1/2"-8 2 start (4tpi). Also most manufaturers recommend the stepper be mounted to a metal mounting plate which acts as a heatsink. Barring that you my try adding a heatsink to the stepper. I have 2 machines currently, one has a 425in-oz stepper mated to an 8-start (1tpi) leadscrew, the other a 180in-oz stepper connected 2-start (4tpi) leadscrew, and they get only warm after 3-4 hours machining time. So with the belt drive in the X and Y axis, they have a lower drive ration than the Z, so in 3-axis work the Z has to work multiple times more than the X and Y.

    m

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    39
    Right now I'm running a 1/2"-10 2 start. This is 5TPI. Right? So if I lower the TPI it should lower the number of pulses per revolution, but won't it require more "work" (higher current draw) to move the axis? Like I said sometimes the trees get in my way.

    Greg

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538
    Steppers don't draw more current the harder they work. They are constant current devices. Typically, when motors get really hot, it's due to either high voltage or high current. The current setting on the drives should never exceed the motors rated current. And the higher the voltage you supply, the hotter the motor will get.

    Has the motor always gotten hot? If only recently, then you may have a bad motor, loose wires, or maybe the current setting on the drive has inadvertently been changed?

    Does the drive get hot? If a motor starts running bad after getting hot, check if the drive is getting hot. An overheating drive can cause the issues you're seeing.

    What voltage are you running at?

    You mentioned going to a 620oz motor? Actually, you'd be better off with a smaller motor. A motor with the lowest inductance and the maximum current that your drive will supply will easily outperform a larger motor, as the larger motor will have higher inductance and a lower max rpm.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5516
    Quote Originally Posted by Metalbender View Post
    Right now I'm running a 1/2"-10 2 start. This is 5TPI. Right? So if I lower the TPI it should lower the number of pulses per revolution, but won't it require more "work" (higher current draw) to move the axis? Like I said sometimes the trees get in my way.
    Gerry beat me to the punch... And yes, while you'll need more torque to move the same load, you will have more torque available to you at lower speeds. There are a couple exceptions. If you're typically running your stepper below the "corner speed" then you may not see a significant increase in power. Also if you have a high microstep setting you may be losing torque there as well. Since you have a 1/2"-10, 2-start screw, you already have a "mechanical" resolution of .001".

    As Gerry mentioned, since the larger motor has a higher inductance, you can use even more top-end performance. A smaller motor likely has a lower inductance, and thus retains more torque at higher speeds. My small machine has a 180in-oz stepper, with 1/2"-8, 2 start ACME screw (4tpi), and likely considerably heavier than yours, and I run it at 360ipm rapids all day (and tested to 600ipm.) I do routinely clean and lube the screw to maintain this speed, as this speed can cause the nut to heat an "pinch" on the screw; though I never experienced this.

    My guess is that, since you have a belt drive on the X and Y, you're probably running close to a 1:1 drive ratio there. On moves where the X, Y, and Z move, you have to spin the Z motor 5 times as much as the X and Y. This isn't a big deal for profiling and pocketing where the Z remains constant, but can be on a 3D relief, or maybe jobs that have a lot of drilling or pocketing where the Z is constantly positioning. I would say, in general, it would be beneficial to pair a larger stepper with a high-lead screw and smaller stepper with a finer pitch screw.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    39
    Louie, Gerry,

    Thanks for the input. This points me in the right direction. As I run her today I'll keep and eye on the drive temp for starters. I did notice my "X" motor is barely warm to the touch. It has a fan on it. The "Y" motor feels pretty warm...I can hold my hand on it...I'm guessing about 120 degrees. No fan. I'll have to dig out the liturature from Keling and see if I can figure out what the current settings are.

    Greg

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