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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    End mill sizes

    I need to cut a .020" slot. Is there and endmill that would cut this? Peferably carbide. I want to do it on an indexing head. and spinning the part at the same time therefor getting a grove around the diameter.

    Who thinks this would work? Currently I lathe turn it but don't want to do that anymore.

  2. #2
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    May 2005
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    You can get endmills as small as .005", so the answer is yes.

    Pay close attention to speeds and feeds - a .020" endmill is gonna snap faster than Mike Tyson at a cheerleader convention.

    You might be better off in the lathe with a grooving insert ground with adequate side and end clearance.

    Scott
    Consistency is a good thing....unless you're consistently an idiot.

  3. #3
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    Yes you can get a .020 carb endmill (and even smaller). Check Robb Jack or even Micro 100. There are many others as well.

    Will it work?... Yes, but why would you want to? A groove like that is much faster to run on a lathe, consistent, longer tool life, etc.... I'd think you'd be happier with parts on the lathe than milling it.
    It's just a part..... cutter still goes round and round....

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychomill
    Yes you can get a .020 carb endmill (and even smaller). Check Robb Jack or even Micro 100. There are many others as well.

    Will it work?... Yes, but why would you want to? A groove like that is much faster to run on a lathe, consistent, longer tool life, etc.... I'd think you'd be happier with parts on the lathe than milling it.

    true but my lathe is manual.. You do 2k a week on a manual mill!!! it is ridiculous. If I can put it in the mill I would be happier than a pig in **** :banana: .....

    What to do waht do to...

  5. #5
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    I love running manual lathes....what's the aversion to a manual lathe to cut a face groove?

    From what you describe, the lathe is the way to go.

    Scott
    Consistency is a good thing....unless you're consistently an idiot.

  6. #6
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    true but my lathe is manual.. You do 2k a week on a manual mill!!!
    Yes, but I think a big reason why you CAN do 2k a week is because its on a lathe. Put it on a mill, you may not make as many,... certainly not as quickly at any rate.

    What is the reason (besides the quantity) its a pain on the lathe?
    It's just a part..... cutter still goes round and round....

  7. #7
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    Aug 2005
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    Sounds like it's time to get a cnc lathe!

    JP

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPMach
    Sounds like it's time to get a cnc lathe!

    JP
    true... but if I got a mill I could do A LOT more work... That is my catch 22.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychomill
    Yes, but I think a big reason why you CAN do 2k a week is because its on a lathe. Put it on a mill, you may not make as many,... certainly not as quickly at any rate.

    What is the reason (besides the quantity) its a pain on the lathe?

    just time and exhaustion. Really it isn't time it's just tiring and I bet if all I had to do was load and press a button I wouldn't be as tired.

  10. #10
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    Mar 2003
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    If the configuration of the part is suitable, you might use a slitting saw to cut the groove in the mill. I'm not saying it is the wise thing to do, but if you are determined..... I would not waste 2 seconds considering an endmill for this type of job.
    First you get good, then you get fast. Then grouchiness sets in.

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuFlungDung
    If the configuration of the part is suitable, you might use a slitting saw to cut the groove in the mill. I'm not saying it is the wise thing to do, but if you are determined..... I would not waste 2 seconds considering an endmill for this type of job.
    no? Well the thing is.. I only have money for one type of machine right now... I got this job to do for 2k a week at $.75 soo if I can do it decent money.. but I want to have a mill cause I can do a lot of other jobs with it also.... :\ I dont know.. It is just a groove

    why wouldn't you use an end mill?

  12. #12
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    I'm with Hu on this one. If you're 'determined' to mill it, I'd go with a saw.

    true... but if I got a mill I could do A LOT more work... That is my catch 22.
    Yes, if you got a mill you could do a lot more work (at least a lot more different type of work). However, cutting a groove on the OD of something that can be held in lathe is not exactly the right direction in my mind (unless you only had a mill and not a lathe). Time is money. Besides, what makes you think that loading 2k parts on a mill to cut a groove is less exhausting than loading 2k parts on a lathe? Not to mention, for this app., the lathe is 10x easier to set up and get going....
    It's just a part..... cutter still goes round and round....

  13. #13
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    why wouldn't you use an end mill?
    There's a few things to consider here. We don't know what material you're working with, the depth of the groove, and the OD of the part (or dia of groove). But for the most part, a saw will outlast the endmill in most apps for grooving as well as being able to feed it faster through the cut.
    It's just a part..... cutter still goes round and round....

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychomill
    I'm with Hu on this one. If you're 'determined' to mill it, I'd go with a saw.



    Yes, if you got a mill you could do a lot more work (at least a lot more different type of work). However, cutting a groove on the OD of something that can be held in lathe is not exactly the right direction in my mind (unless you only had a mill and not a lathe). Time is money. Besides, what makes you think that loading 2k parts on a mill to cut a groove is less exhausting than loading 2k parts on a lathe? Not to mention, for this app., the lathe is 10x easier to set up and get going....

    cause on the lathe (MANUAL) I have to cut the grove. then I center drill then drill for a tap. Then I take it out. Then later it goes on a manual mill for tapping..

    If I could eliminate the two set ups and just go face groove then load it in the vise and center drill, drill, tap and do that while just pressing a button would be A LOT easier than waiting for it to drill and everything. It gets aggravating. I rather spend the same time in front of the machine not doing work then actually doing work. Then in between cycle times I could do something... the 30 seconds or whatever...

  15. #15
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    So is it a face groove in the end face of a part?

    I understand how you get aggravated and tired doing this style of work The trick is to design a process that is easy to load, and this might require spending some money.

    If you have the option to hold the part with a fast acting 5C collet, in both lathe and mill, this makes loading quick and easy. I'm just guessing that you could do all the spot, drill and tap operations in the mill, with a quickchange tool holder setup. However, it does require a bit of care to get the hole accurately placed in the the center of a shaft held in the mill. A vertical/horizontal 5C collet fixture is a good choice for a mill fixture for round objects.
    First you get good, then you get fast. Then grouchiness sets in.

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  16. #16
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    Again, assuming a few things here. I agree with Hu, process has a lot to do with this. Instead of only tapping on a mill, I'd just use a drill press with a tapping head and float the thread for example... takes seconds and next to no "set up".
    It's just a part..... cutter still goes round and round....

  17. #17
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    If you center dill and drill the hole on the lathe, why are you not also tapping the hole on the lathe?

    Calculate how many inches of groove your 2000 pieces entail, and divide that by the number of mm a 0.020" carbide end mill will do (be conservative, as the failure mode of that 0.020" is probably going to take a piece to scrap pile with it). That is how many tool changes you are going to need to do, and how many expensive fragile little mills you need.

    Have you thought of making up simple stops for the saddle and tailstock? This part sounds like the sort of job old manual turret lathes spat out by the hundreds of thousands.
    Regards,
    Mark

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBG
    I dont know.. It is just a groove

    why wouldn't you use an end mill?
    with a simple throughput model, you've got to identify and analyze the constraint, or bottleneck. In machining, its often material removal rates, i.e. basic reason the commercial world went to carbides.

    In this instance, the basic constraint (as I see it anyway) of the actual cutting op is tool rigidity/support. With a .020 end mill, you got to be taking a very tiny chip. In the lathe, you can have an inch of support underneath the tool and therefore can take a much bigger chip. No comparison lathe will have a higher throughput (assuming loading/unloading is basically the same) – this is with HuFlung wouldn’t waste time considering it.

    if this is a single operation, and we’re not talking some super fancy automatic loading cnc machine, what advantage does cnc have over manual?? Lock the x axis, set a stop on the y, load the part, feed into the stop, next.

  19. #19
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    May 2005
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    To do 2000 in one week is going to be a serious chore on one machine unless you are working 18 hour days.

    18 hours a day X 7 days a week = 126 hours = 7,560 minutes (without a break...no bathroom, no lunch, no broken tools or problems)

    2000 parts in 7,560 minutes = a little less than 4 minutes each.

    I think you need another machine or two and some help! That's a lot of parts and a lot of operations!

    Scott
    Consistency is a good thing....unless you're consistently an idiot.

  20. #20
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    Feb 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by mxtras
    To do 2000 in one week is going to be a serious chore on one machine unless you are working 18 hour days.

    18 hours a day X 7 days a week = 126 hours = 7,560 minutes (without a break...no bathroom, no lunch, no broken tools or problems)

    2000 parts in 7,560 minutes = a little less than 4 minutes each.

    I think you need another machine or two and some help! That's a lot of parts and a lot of operations!

    Scott
    and it takes me about that.. but I do have help ....

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