[SwampDonkey]

Hello to all,

Im in the process of gathering parts for my LMS SX2 conversion to CNC. Its time for me to look at some drivers and steppers that would work on my machine.

I would really like some advice, info, warnings, experience, etc from you guys. Anything you could add about a particular brand or model would be awesome.

Currently Ive nailed down the type of steppers I'll get, but not the particular brand. I feel comfortable with 380 oz for X and Y, with a 400oz on the Z axis.

And thats about as far as I am as far as I am

Thanks!

Edit: Oh and being able to control the mill with a fob or game controller for "manual" milling is a must. Im not sure if that's something common, standard, or rare.

[HorridHenry]

This is your second post on the steppers and drivers.

Advice was given there.

[SwampDonkey]

This is your second post on the steppers and drivers.

Advice was given there.

Correct, but it was thin on specifics.

[hoss2006]

This is the package you should consider for the mill, easy to wire and great performance.
CNC Stepper Motor Kit: , Stepper Motor, Servo Motor, Power Supply Automation Technology Inc
If you use Mach 3 for the controller any number of pendants or controllers can be used for
"manual" milling like the shuttle pro or xbox 360.
Hoss

[SwampDonkey]

This is the package you should consider for the mill, easy to wire and great performance.
CNC Stepper Motor Kit: , Stepper Motor, Servo Motor, Power Supply Automation Technology Inc
If you use Mach 3 for the controller any number of pendants or controllers can be used for
"manual" milling like the shuttle pro or xbox 360.
Hoss

Looks perfect! Thanks.
If it has your blessing, its on the table. The last thing I want to do is buy something I will not be able to use, or not use for my purposes.

[hoss2006]

Yes it's a proven great performing package for the X2 in it's various forms, you should be quite happy with it.
Hoss

[SwampDonkey]

Yes it's a proven great performing package for the X2 in it's various forms, you should be quite happy with it.
Hoss

Good deal, im sure I will. Say, Ive noticed several people doing similar builds running a larger 400oz or so motor on the Z axis. Is this something I should consider?

Also, Ive ordered my CNC fusion kit but held off on the "oversized ball service". Is this something I should do? I do want the maximum accuracy out of my machine.

Thanks

[hoss2006]

381oz/in is plenty for the z, don't know what 400 they are running but to get good performance
the motors amperage and voltage have to be a good match with the driver which the
381 and g540 are, hooking up a higher torque motor doesn't mean you would necessarily
see any advantage. more here.
G0704 Electronics
yes get oversized balls and zero backlash couplers from cncfusion, that's the only option
he should be offering IMO.
Don't want a lot backlash if you can avoid it.
Hoss

[asifjahmed]

I just did an SX2 conversion (see my photos thread) and used the Keling 381 oz/in NEMA 23s from Keling. They are working out great! I got the package with the G540, but opted for the 48v/12.5A power supply so that I can add a 4th axis in the near future by simply adding another motor (gecko and power supply are already up to the task).

I also got a smoothstepper board, and am very pleased with it.

If you have any more specific questions, feel free to ask. I literally JUST got done doing one of these conversions.

[Mad Welder]

Hello to all,

Im in the process of gathering parts .............I would really like some advice................... Oh and being able to control the mill with a fob or game controller for "manual" milling is a must. Im not sure if that's something common, standard, or rare.

Hi there SwampDonkey welcome to the new world of CNC'ing and as Hoss has already pointed you in the right direction you won't go wrong....me I'm using the Keling products and the Digital stepper drivers are fab and as you're are asking for feedback I can recomend them...... and check out photomankc's build thread here http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht...onversion.html and especially his videos of using the PS2 game controller to operate his axis jogging too...


hope this is of some help to you...

[SwampDonkey]

Hi there SwampDonkey welcome to the new world of CNC'ing and as Hoss has already pointed you in the right direction you won't go wrong....me I'm using the Keling products and the Digital stepper drivers are fab and as you're are asking for feedback I can recomend them...... and check out photomankc's build thread here http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht...onversion.html and especially his videos of using the PS2 game controller to operate his axis jogging too...


hope this is of some help to you...

Thanks, I'll head over to check it out.

Ive been looking at the G540 and the Keling digital drives, but what are the differences between the two as far as performance goes?

[Mad Welder]

Thanks, I'll head over to check it out.

Ive been looking at the G540 and the Keling digital drives, but what are the differences between the two as far as performance goes?

I’m no electronics expert and I’m using the Keling Digital drivers as I said, but from my understanding the only difference between the drivers is a person’s preference as the most vital specifics you should be looking at is; are your drivers supplying the correct output current to supply the required input current to the motors?….

When it comes to the hardware selecting process for your CNC project, a simple idea here is to work backwards……so bear with me here….

The first and “most important” thing to consider is what material will you be machining? (Aluminium, Plastics, Steel etc…) and by doing a little bit of research on the net you will see the torque required to adequately control the correct Feeds and Speeds for each machining job……. this then will suggest to you the torque required from the axis driving motors (Stepper or Servo) to output that correct machining torque…..now that may sound a little confusing but if someone is building a CNC machine and has the incorrect motors and drivers they may state that the products are useless ( but in actual fact the hardware is perfect but simply not up to the machining jobs that they’re being used for) so once you are aware of that…….

So with that said….What torque do you require?...This will dictate a selection of Stepper/Servo motors for you to choose from…..Once you choose your Motors your next thing is to find a suitable Driver to “output” the correct current required by the motors, (here you may find this confusing but all you need to do here is to read the current specs of a particular suppliers products, and most suppliers will give you free access to the PDF specs ) and once you have a suitable Driver selected your next thing is to choose a suitable Power Supply to output the correct Voltage and Amperage to supply power to the Driver…..

An example here is if an inadequete Driver is used even thought you may have chosen a high torque motor, but if the driver's output current is lower the motor will have a reduced torque output also....

Now also the new Digital Drivers are fantastic for quietness and smoothness at mid range running….

I know this is a kinda long post but once you get your head around it, it’s really not that hard to understand…

Hope this helps and explains the axis motor choosing process a bit better for you and I hope I haven't confused you more and I know you asked which product is better than the other (Keling Vs Gecko) but once the correct specs are adhered to and like for like products are compared, from my understanding there really isn’t any difference…

[asifjahmed]

Mad Welder has given some sound advice there.

When I made the selection of going with the G540, it was for the reasons that Mad Welder described (capacity was well within my goals using 381 oz/in motors), but also the reputation of the G540's being virtually bulletproof/indestructable, and Gecko having top notch support. Plus, for ~$250 for a 4-axis driver w/breakout board, it just seemed like a no-brainer. I bought a power supply that could handle 4 motors simultaneously (48v, 12.5A), so now when I decide to add a 4th axis all I have to do is purchase a motor and I'm done.

Take your time and do enough research that you feel totally comfortable with your choice before pulling the trigger. Let us know what you decide though!

[Fixittt]

another thing to between the Keling and the G540 is microstepping selection.

What are your resolution requirements?
The G540 is locked into 10 microstepping. (this seems to be the most commonly used)
But the keling drives are adjustable. In the jewelry industry higher resolution is required to be able to fit so much detail in a small area. I have also done this with the G540 and high pitched lead screws.

I have also needed the higher microstepping in cutting demo parts ffor the micro-fluidics and medical fields. I have seen recessed features so small that they can line up blood cells in single file.

Now I know that for your mill, this means nothing, but it falls into the question that you asked...... what is the difference.

Another difference is design. I can configure the keling box (standard BOB and drives) to suit a specific need. You have more inputs and the ability to add more devices to the package where the G540 is what it is but gives you alot of what is popular but there is a trade off. One example is the 3 inputs. For what I do, 4 inputs is great but I can get by with putting home switches in series on a single input.

The G540 is a GREAT drive and I recommend them all the time. I own both the keling (both the older and the new digitals) and G540 drives.

[MrWild]

steppers are a specially trained horse.

High stepping elegant Hackney horses - YouTube

drivers herd cattle

Cattle Drive Wyoming 2006 - YouTube

[asifjahmed]

steppers are a specially trained horse.

High stepping elegant Hackney horses - YouTube

drivers herd cattle

Cattle Drive Wyoming 2006 - YouTube

[Mad Welder]

another thing to between the Keling and the G540 is microstepping selection..........But the keling drives are adjustable.........

Sorry there SwampDonkey I didn't realise that the Gecko was locked into 10 Microstepping cheers Fixittt

.......I have also needed the higher microstepping in cutting demo parts ffor the micro-fluidics and medical fields. I have seen recessed features so small that they can line up blood cells in single file..........

Mercyful Heavens.....WOW....I had read in the Keling Digital Driver specs for Microstepping upto 25,000 but I never really took in the reason for it….I’d say at times your job gets extremely interesting…..

Now I know that for your mill, this means nothing, but it falls into the question that you asked...... what is the difference........ Another difference is design. I can configure the keling box (standard BOB and drives) to suit a specific need. You have more inputs and the ability to add more devices to the package where the G540 is what it is but gives you alot of what is popular but there is a trade off. One example is the 3 inputs. For what I do, 4 inputs is great but I can get by with putting home switches in series on a single input.

The G540 is a GREAT drive and I recommend them all the time. I own both the keling (both the older and the new digitals) and G540 drives..

Thanks for the info Fixittt:cheers:

[SwampDonkey]

another thing to between the Keling and the G540 is microstepping selection.

What are your resolution requirements?
The G540 is locked into 10 microstepping. (this seems to be the most commonly used)
But the keling drives are adjustable. In the jewelry industry higher resolution is required to be able to fit so much detail in a small area. I have also done this with the G540 and high pitched lead screws.

I have also needed the higher microstepping in cutting demo parts ffor the micro-fluidics and medical fields. I have seen recessed features so small that they can line up blood cells in single file.

Now I know that for your mill, this means nothing, but it falls into the question that you asked...... what is the difference.

Another difference is design. I can configure the keling box (standard BOB and drives) to suit a specific need. You have more inputs and the ability to add more devices to the package where the G540 is what it is but gives you alot of what is popular but there is a trade off. One example is the 3 inputs. For what I do, 4 inputs is great but I can get by with putting home switches in series on a single input.

The G540 is a GREAT drive and I recommend them all the time. I own both the keling (both the older and the new digitals) and G540 drives.

Good stuff! Thanks.
I plan on making miniature internal combustion engines and need fairly tight tolerances. Im guessing the higher the microstep count, the higher the resolution/ accuracy? I'd like to get to .0005 if possible. I will be using 5/8" ballscrews with .2 pitch.

[SCzEngrgGroup]

"Im guessing the higher the microstep count, the higher the resolution/ accuracy?" - No, that is not correct. Microstepping beyond 10X is of virtually no value. First, no benchtop machine is going to benefit from more than 10X micro-stepping, because it's already far beyond the mechanical resolution of the machine itself. If you're running direct drive steppers with 5-pitch screws, 10X microstepping gives a nominal (NOT actual) step size of 0.0001". Flex and vibration in the machine will FAR exceed that. Second, micro-stepping does not produce equal-sized steps, and the higher the ratio, the greater the % error will be, so microstepping beyond a relatively low ratio does absolutely nothing to increase resolution or accuracy.

Regards,
Ray L.

[SwampDonkey]

"Im guessing the higher the microstep count, the higher the resolution/ accuracy?" - No, that is not correct. Microstepping beyond 10X is of virtually no value. First, no benchtop machine is going to benefit from more than 10X micro-stepping, because it's already far beyond the mechanical resolution of the machine itself. If you're running direct drive steppers with 5-pitch screws, 10X microstepping gives a nominal (NOT actual) step size of 0.0001". Flex and vibration in the machine will FAR exceed that. Second, micro-stepping does not produce equal-sized steps, and the higher the ratio, the greater the % error will be, so microstepping beyond a relatively low ratio does absolutely nothing to increase resolution or accuracy.

Regards,
Ray L.

Then what is the point of microstepping if it does nothing? Im a bit confused. Are you saying it can potentially increase resolution, but wont due to the limitations of my machine?
So with my .2 pitch screws, what resolution will 10X microstepping give me?

Thanks,