[FatFingers]

In need of others experience with the age old question...Should operators be able to edit CNC programs? Please, share your experiences, advise, and comments.

[Al_The_Man]

It is usually a question of how capable they are and whether you trust them to make slight changes?
If you have operators that only have a vague idea of what they are doing, they can do damage real quick, in this case, the Memory lock switch is an option!.
Al.

[txcncman]

Not if you classify them as operator. Set up person, limited to work offset number, tool numbers, and maybe RPM and feed rates.

Operator is to put material in machine. Press cycle start button. Take part out of machine. Check to verify compliance. Clean up.

[harryn]

I will give you a customer perspective on it.

If a part is made from drawings to print, I don't care what you do as long as it is to print.

When I pay to have a proto part run, approve it, then pay for a production part run, I expect the machine shop to use the process, almost down to the g code. When the next batch order comes in, I want the same g code run, to the maximum extent possible.

While this is not entirely feasible, I really hate getting parts that were made "approved to the proto" and then a change was made in how they were made just because someone thought "it won't matter if we change this".

[underthetire]

Operators, no way. Machinists, sure.

[autobot]

What about the flip side, should customers have a say about the gcode also?

If you price a job per the hour of machining time and you have a poorly programed code running a couple of minutes longer than it really needs to per part, and that time really racks up once you fill the eventual quantity, the customer could be paying serious additional costs.

Could the customer reasonably ask that you modify the code a certain way? Maybe he is a machinist wiz but you are the one with the expensive machining center which is why they came to you?

On the flip side though, as the owner/employee of the machine shop, you might not want the customers doing damage to your machine or tools either. You'd double check their suggested mods of course but maybe you dont want their input at all. Maybe you even want to appear professional and know more than the customer because of an ego thing.

Is it usual or unusual for customers to ask to look at the gcode? Even if it was uncommon, since most probably have a budget from their supervisor and a CAD file and a due date in mind and that is all they care about as long as those numbers are filled properly, would you be against the idea of a customer requesting to see your gcode?

[David999]

Not if you classify them as operator. Set up person, limited to work offset number, tool numbers, and maybe RPM and feed rates.

Operator is to put material in machine. Press cycle start button. Take part out of machine. Check to verify compliance. Clean up.

Without question.. i agree completely

[David999]

an operator is just that , a part loader and button pusher. an operator should never be aloud to make changes to a program, and as far as offsets well only under over the shoulder supervision. i have seen machines destroyed because an "operator" edited the offsets.

[magnum500sw]

i have to agree with al the man , i personally like having someone you can take under your wing and can trust to do the correct thing . the way i see it if that person has the desire to learn it is up to me to show that person the ropes . it has bit me before , theres not a more sinking fealing when an operator comes over to show you a million $ machine crashed hard on a tool

[night owl]

Speaking as the guy who has to fix the machine after it's been crashed, I'll give you my usual vague answer to your very vague question, "It depends..."
We only hire "machinists" but they are all classified as "operators." Some can be trusted, some can't. Even the good ones make mistakes, we're all human. There is no silver bullet.

[samhyto]

From my perspective, the machinist 'food chain' is as follows;

Master CNC Machinist/Programmer: Extensive CAD/CAM Experience. Multi-axis Mill and lathes with live tooling, etc, etc, etc. Including every skill listed below. If this person ever asks for help, you will probably never know. This person is the Special Forces of machining, and has routine dialog with 'X-axis' the Greek God of machining.

Sr. CNC Machinist/Programmer: CAD/CAM Experience. Simultaneous 3-axis Mill and lathes. Learing advanced metal working practices. Competent to teach Apprentice machinist/programmers. You can entrust this person with machines worth more than most exotic sports cars on a daily basis, and don't think anything of it.

Master-Machinist (going old school here): This is the machinist that hasn't made the CNC transition, but you can rely on to make any tool and produce low quantity parts in a highly efficient manner using antiquated tools to tight tolerances. These individuals are masters of the trade, and can find solution to complex geometries without the use of a CAD system or a calculator. Everyone can learn from this person if they are willing to teach you. You want this person to be on your side. They know what Hi-Spot-blue is and how to properly employ is use on co-workers and management.

Jr. CNC Machinist/Programmer: CAD/CAM Experience. Mill and lathes. Proficient knowledge of standard machining practices. You can now trust them with your Shelby Mustang without a curfew!

Apprentice Machinist/Programmmer: Learning CAD/CAM and standard machining practices. Experienced in at the machine programming while developing the core fundamentals of machining practices.

Setup-Machinist/Programmer: Experienced at modifying programs, and competent at interpreting a program at the machine. Basic competencies in setting up a machine for production. They are trying to find out where you are hiding the keys to the cars.

Setup Person: Still learning programming, but can follow instructions/set-up sheets to get a job running. Skills in setting offsets, and proficient with basic aspects of the control. Getting exposure to standard machining practices. Getting their learners permit drive your camaro.

Setup/operator: Transitional phase between a setup person and an experienced operator.

Operator: Merely a parts changer/parts checker. They require constant supervision and extensive training. Check the water, soap, sponge and bucket before you even let them wash your Honda Civic.

Sam

[txcncman]

From my perspective, the machinist 'food chain' is as follows;

Master CNC Machinist/Programmer: Extensive CAD/CAM Experience. Multi-axis Mill and lathes with live tooling, etc, etc, etc. Including every skill listed below. If this person ever asks for help, you will probably never know. This person is the Special Forces of machining, and has routine dialog with 'X-axis' the Greek God of machining.

Sr. CNC Machinist/Programmer: CAD/CAM Experience. Simultaneous 3-axis Mill and lathes. Learing advanced metal working practices. Competent to teach Apprentice machinist/programmers. You can entrust this person with machines worth more than most exotic sports cars on a daily basis, and don't think anything of it.

Master-Machinist (going old school here): This is the machinist that hasn't made the CNC transition, but you can rely on to make any tool and produce low quantity parts in a highly efficient manner using antiquated tools to tight tolerances. These individuals are masters of the trade, and can find solution to complex geometries without the use of a CAD system or a calculator. Everyone can learn from this person if they are willing to teach you. You want this person to be on your side. They know what Hi-Spot-blue is and how to properly employ is use on co-workers and management.

Jr. CNC Machinist/Programmer: CAD/CAM Experience. Mill and lathes. Proficient knowledge of standard machining practices. You can now trust them with your Shelby Mustang without a curfew!

Apprentice Machinist/Programmmer: Learning CAD/CAM and standard machining practices. Experienced in at the machine programming while developing the core fundamentals of machining practices.

Setup-Machinist/Programmer: Experienced at modifying programs, and competent at interpreting a program at the machine. Basic competencies in setting up a machine for production. They are trying to find out where you are hiding the keys to the cars.

Setup Person: Still learning programming, but can follow instructions/set-up sheets to get a job running. Skills in setting offsets, and proficient with basic aspects of the control. Getting exposure to standard machining practices. Getting their learners permit drive your camaro.

Setup/operator: Transitional phase between a setup person and an experienced operator.

Operator: Merely a parts changer/parts checker. They require constant supervision and extensive training. Check the water, soap, sponge and bucket before you even let them wash your Honda Civic.

Sam

+1,000,000

Excellent!

[txcncman]

From my perspective, the machinist 'food chain' is as follows;

Master CNC Machinist/Programmer: Extensive CAD/CAM Experience. Multi-axis Mill and lathes with live tooling, etc, etc, etc. Including every skill listed below. If this person ever asks for help, you will probably never know. This person is the Special Forces of machining, and has routine dialog with 'X-axis' the Greek God of machining.

Sr. CNC Machinist/Programmer: CAD/CAM Experience. Simultaneous 3-axis Mill and lathes. Learing advanced metal working practices. Competent to teach Apprentice machinist/programmers. You can entrust this person with machines worth more than most exotic sports cars on a daily basis, and don't think anything of it.

Master-Machinist (going old school here): This is the machinist that hasn't made the CNC transition, but you can rely on to make any tool and produce low quantity parts in a highly efficient manner using antiquated tools to tight tolerances. These individuals are masters of the trade, and can find solution to complex geometries without the use of a CAD system or a calculator. Everyone can learn from this person if they are willing to teach you. You want this person to be on your side. They know what Hi-Spot-blue is and how to properly employ is use on co-workers and management.

Jr. CNC Machinist/Programmer: CAD/CAM Experience. Mill and lathes. Proficient knowledge of standard machining practices. You can now trust them with your Shelby Mustang without a curfew!

Apprentice Machinist/Programmmer: Learning CAD/CAM and standard machining practices. Experienced in at the machine programming while developing the core fundamentals of machining practices.

Setup-Machinist/Programmer: Experienced at modifying programs, and competent at interpreting a program at the machine. Basic competencies in setting up a machine for production. They are trying to find out where you are hiding the keys to the cars.

Setup Person: Still learning programming, but can follow instructions/set-up sheets to get a job running. Skills in setting offsets, and proficient with basic aspects of the control. Getting exposure to standard machining practices. Getting their learners permit drive your camaro.

Setup/operator: Transitional phase between a setup person and an experienced operator.

Operator: Merely a parts changer/parts checker. They require constant supervision and extensive training. Check the water, soap, sponge and bucket before you even let them wash your Honda Civic.

Sam

+1,000,000

Excellent!

[magnum500sw]

From my perspective, the machinist 'food chain' is as follows;

Master CNC Machinist/Programmer: Extensive CAD/CAM Experience. Multi-axis Mill and lathes with live tooling, etc, etc, etc. Including every skill listed below. If this person ever asks for help, you will probably never know. This person is the Special Forces of machining, and has routine dialog with 'X-axis' the Greek God of machining.

Sr. CNC Machinist/Programmer: CAD/CAM Experience. Simultaneous 3-axis Mill and lathes. Learing advanced metal working practices. Competent to teach Apprentice machinist/programmers. You can entrust this person with machines worth more than most exotic sports cars on a daily basis, and don't think anything of it.

Master-Machinist (going old school here): This is the machinist that hasn't made the CNC transition, but you can rely on to make any tool and produce low quantity parts in a highly efficient manner using antiquated tools to tight tolerances. These individuals are masters of the trade, and can find solution to complex geometries without the use of a CAD system or a calculator. Everyone can learn from this person if they are willing to teach you. You want this person to be on your side. They know what Hi-Spot-blue is and how to properly employ is use on co-workers and management.

Jr. CNC Machinist/Programmer: CAD/CAM Experience. Mill and lathes. Proficient knowledge of standard machining practices. You can now trust them with your Shelby Mustang without a curfew!

Apprentice Machinist/Programmmer: Learning CAD/CAM and standard machining practices. Experienced in at the machine programming while developing the core fundamentals of machining practices.

Setup-Machinist/Programmer: Experienced at modifying programs, and competent at interpreting a program at the machine. Basic competencies in setting up a machine for production. They are trying to find out where you are hiding the keys to the cars.

Setup Person: Still learning programming, but can follow instructions/set-up sheets to get a job running. Skills in setting offsets, and proficient with basic aspects of the control. Getting exposure to standard machining practices. Getting their learners permit drive your camaro.

Setup/operator: Transitional phase between a setup person and an experienced operator.

Operator: Merely a parts changer/parts checker. They require constant supervision and extensive training. Check the water, soap, sponge and bucket before you even let them wash your Honda Civic.

Sam

pretty good .