[double a-ron]

Ok, I've now had to replace all of the air solenoids on the MINIMILL 2. The one in the side mount twice and now the two for the draw bar. The one in the side mount was just terrible until you added the new little plate thing to it. Thank you. The ones behind the spindle cover are not too bad but, getting the cover off is a total pain with the smtc. My question is this, what purpose does it serve to put the solenoid right next to the component it actuates? Why not centrally locate all air solenoids somewhere on the back of the machine? Our TL-15 has them all in a row on the back. Just a thought.

Before I catch a bunch of guff from people who live in Arizona or California about having moisture in my air lines, know this: I own a rotary screw compressor with a "clean air system". More importantly, I'm in Miami. I don't care how much you spend on compressed air, in this city you will always have a problem with air solenoids on any machine. It's so humid here I'd swear it can rain indoors.

[john-100]

Hi double a-ron

my first thought is,
depending on the rate of the air flow into the pipe connecting the valve and the volume of air needed to fill the pipe
you could have an extra delay before the pneumatic cylinder operates

or may be its just cost cutting
if the extra wiring now costs less than the extra pneumatic pipe work if you relocated the solenoid valves

John

[keebler303]

Additionally, every time you cycle the cylinder, you lose the volume of the pressurized part of the system. The longer the lines, the more air is lost and so the air consumption is increased. It may also be a little cheaper to run only a single pressure line to all the valves, rather than running two lines all the way to each cylinder (or 1 if a single acting cylinder).

I think I would sacrifice this for easier service though.
Matt

[txcncman]

Just remember, in addition to being somewhat functional, machine tool builders also must make the machines look good and sexy to increase sales. A marketing person with a college degree told them so. So, putting solenoids on the outside of covers would be a big no-no.

[double a-ron]

I don't mean on the outside in front, I meant in the back, under the elec box. Also, how about online parts ordering? I know what part I need, why do I have to call and talk to someone to order it? What century is this? OMAX now has online parts ordering and I love it.

[locash]

I agree on the online parts ordering, as I have had major issues in the past with a parts guy that wasn't the brightest bulb in the box. If I order the wrong part, its my fault and I can handle the downtime lost. When the parts guy screws up repeatedly, it is another story.

[Machineit]

For a non-Haas bashing post, it is beginning to look kinda like one! But, that's okay.

As far as parts are concerned, it is because they have an extensive system of Haas service centers, dozens. The centers have to buy and maintain a large assortment of parts in order to be able to service the machines. It would not be proper for Haas to undercut these dealers and sell parts directly to the customers.

OMAX has a total of 14 distributors in the states and most probably don't stock parts, so online ordering is not a problem for them.

As far as getting the correct part, if you give them the part number, it is always going to be he correct one isn't it? I have found that most of the time the parts guys are pretty damn good. If you do have a problem, deal with someone else.

Mike

[txcncman]

For a non-Haas bashing post, it is beginning to look kinda like one! But, that's okay.

As far as parts are concerned, it is because they have an extensive system of Haas service centers, dozens. The centers have to buy and maintain a large assortment of parts in order to be able to service the machines. It would not be proper for Haas to undercut these dealers and sell parts directly to the customers.

OMAX has a total of 14 distributors in the states and most probably don't stock parts, so online ordering is not a problem for them.

As far as getting the correct part, if you give them the part number, it is always going to be he correct one isn't it? I have found that most of the time the parts guys are pretty damn good. If you do have a problem, deal with someone else.

Mike

I do not think making suggestions for improvement or wants and wishes known is the same as bashing.

[underthetire]

Give them time. 10 Years ago, other things on Haas were a nightmare, now very easy. Other builders are doing centrally located waylube metering units, solenoids, etc. where they can. Just takes Haas a couple years to catch up usually.

[txcncman]

I am wanting Haas to offer a machine with features enhanced so all I have to do is think of a part, then the machine will get bids for material from vendors and order it. Then receive the material and verify compliance. Then it will rough cut the stock and develop the needed G-code to machine it. Then it will machine the part complete and inspect it and generate an inspection report. Then it will package the finished goods and ship to the customer along with the needed paperwork and invoice. All the while looking like a super model and bring me beer at the end of this tiring work day.

Is that too much to ask for?

[KenFoulks]

Is that too much to ask for?

Yes

[Vern Smith]

I can not complain about the parts department at my local HFO, they are very good with a quick quote and additional information as needed. I am mystified by the inefficiency of the Haas parts distribution system. Contrary to some other's experiences, the local HFO has never once had a part I needed in their local inventory, it always came from CA direct.

Now if you follow the logic of this type of system and respect Haas' obvious obligations to their HFO's under their franchise agreements why not simplify the process for everyone as previously suggested in this thread. Go to online ordering direct from CA, it would save time and money for everyone. The HFO's territories are geographically delineated so the markup can easily be credited to the appropriate HFO's account without them ever knowing the transaction took place.

The guys in CA must have thought about this so I can only assume they have good reasons to resist it, probably has something to do with our friends the lawyers

Vern

[aadrew10]

Just remember, in addition to being somewhat functional, machine tool builders also must make the machines look good and sexy to increase sales. A marketing person with a college degree told them so. So, putting solenoids on the outside of covers would be a big no-no.

Someone's got a little chip on his shoulder...

[Geof]

Where did the 'Thread Tools' menu go? I just want to link to this thread so I can see what people are posting and this is the only way I can figure out how to do it.

I don't care if you are in Miami or Timbuktu, if you have proper air system you will not have problems with air solenoids. If you have problems with air solenoids you don't have a proper air system.

[double a-ron]

Let me just start by saying this: I was born in Minnesota and lived in that icey hell for 20 years. Northerners have no idea what hot and humid is. Have you ever even been to Miami? Not Texas, not Cali, not Georgia, I mean Miami. Better yet Homestead, even further south where I'm at. For most of the year, it's pure hell. You wake up at 4:30 am and it's 80 degrees. By lunch time it's over 90. The problem isn't water in the lines fouling the solenoids, the problem is moisture in the air in general. I bet you carried your trusty Carmex around with you all winter. I know I did up north. In the 10 years I've been down here I haven't even bought so much as a tube of crappy chapstick. That's how dry it is there and nasty it is here. The only way you can have truly dry machines here in Miami is to have your whole operation indoors. No one does that because the cost of AC here is outrageous. Your typical home in Miami has an average electric bill of over $300/month. I can't even begin to imagine what cooling 10,000 sq/ft of warehouse space would cost.

So, that being said, why don't you tell me how to fix my air system "problem" I seem to have. I all ready have a Rotary Screw compressor with air dryer, an automatic water drain on the tank, and another air dryer by the cnc machines. My Haas tech said ALL the machines he works on down here that are in an open air environment have problems like this. We must all need Geofs "proper air system".

Oh, and Timbuktu is in the Sahara desert, they wouldn't have a problem with humidity.

[Machineit]

First, Double-A-Ron is right, it is terrible trying to keep things dry here in South Florida. People think that it is bad where they live, but they have not been here during the Summer. I was in Missouri a few years ago in July. Everyone was bit-hing about the heat and humidity, and I just smiled. It was nothing compared to what we have here. I was comfortable! And, we have it 6 to 7 months a year.

But then, you do have to make every effort to keep the water out of the lines. I just finished putting A/C in my new shop, about 5 months ago, after fighting with the city over permits and such for many many months. The regulations are killing us here. Without the A/C I had trouble with everything rusting etc. Now it is much better.

The machines are designed to have the valves close to the item they control in order to reduce the amount of air used in operation. I have worked in shops where air was at a premium at times. The air in the last shop I work in was so inadequate that I would get low air pressure alarms during tool changes.

Even with good compressors and driers, I would put an in-line filter drier right at the air hook-up for the machine. It will be the last line of defense. I did it on mine and still get water trapped in there each day I run. I drain it every night by emptying the air out.

Also, remember that if you have an automatic drain on your filter-dryer it needs the pressure to drop to near zero in order to drain. They work by opening the valve when the pressure drops to zero. With pressure the valve in them is closed and without pressure a little spring opens the valve to drain. So, unless you have an electrical type valve for the drain, you need to shut the air supply off and drain the system in order for them to work.

One last thing about dryers, you can't put them right onto the compressor, doesn't work. They should be at the equipment they protect.

With Humidity Sympathies---Mike

[double a-ron]

My parents want to come down to visit. I told them the heat and rain are a lot like a Kevin Costner movie; it just goes on and on with no end in sight. Pretty much unbearable.

[JohnJW]

I'm one of those CA guys and I like the dry weather. However, I still have to put a refrigerated air dryer on my screw compressor to get rid of the moisture in the airline. After I added the air dryer, the popping noise from changing tools after running it at 10,000rpm for 20 minutes, went away.

If your solenoid is rusting due to moisture in the compressed air, maybe you can talk to a few air compressor people to see how you can resolve the issue. It shouldn't be an impossible situation and if you can solve it, you're ahead of all the other local machine shops in open air environment

[pa2262]

Hi guys,
Jumping into this a little late, but the discussion seems pertinent to a problem I'm having.
Just recently, my VF-3's draw bar has become sluggish to retract after a tool change.
It might go 30-45 seconds or longer before the "un-clip" message disappears.
I was thinking it might be a dragging solenoid, but didn't know where to start looking.
Can anybody get me started looking in the right direction ?????
Thanks for your help

[double a-ron]

That's actually why I started this thread. Replace the two solenoids under the spindle cover. If you have the side mount toolchanger like I do, the cover removal will take about an hour. It's not hard but, there are like 400 torx screws holding it on. Once it's off, the 'noids change out in 5 mins.