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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > Tormach Personal CNC Mill > I need Info On The Tormach Machines
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    36

    I need Info On The Tormach Machines

    Hello,

    I have been through what I call holy hell for the past seven months! I manufacture parts from 6061 T6 and purchased a CNC Masters Machine. From day one the technical support is fantastic but the Baron XL I purchased does not stand up close to the support. The support is needed because the machine just will not hold up in any fashion! Buyers beware!

    Just about every major part on this machine has failed starting from day one the limit switches failing, the draw bar falling apart and then shortly after the the processor. The machine cannot cut .125 without massive vibration.

    After trying to give the machine every benefit of the doubt today after rebuilding the quill with bearings far superior to what the machine comes with the hand held remote, the limit switches and the processor have failed.

    The machine will not stay trammed and the Gibbs continually become loose as well as many other parts on the machine. The technical support will keep you hoping for the machine to produce!

    I have been looking at the Tormach machines but have seen some mixed issues and wonder if the machine will hold up and can cut parts with a good finish.
    I am not ready for the cost of a Hass machine and really only mill one part although technical with allot of different drill operations. I have been using a Royal Quick change system as well as the R8 collects with all the best tooling.

    Does anyone recommend the Tormach machines and for the money can you make quality parts with a good finish? I do not do more than six parts a day the size of a 3 ½” x 3 1/8”.
    Has anyone run these machines and had minimal problems and not the nightmare I have been wasting the past seven months trying to simply manufacture small parts?
    Thank you! I really need some help from the objective people that will tell all so I don’t end up in another endless pit!

  2. #2
    You need to take your post to the Tormach forum.
    Tormach PCNC - CNCzone.com-The Largest Machinist Community on the net!
    Hoss

    There, it's moved now for you.
    http://www.hossmachine.info - Gosh, you've... really got some nice toys here. - Roy Batty -- http://www.g0704.com - http://www.bf20.com - http://www.g0602.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    624

    Tormach Quality

    Welcome to the Tormach forum.

    Please take the time to read the entire forum- I think that will answer your question better than any brief answer. Yes, there's a lot to read. It will take a day or two, full time. It's worth it. Many of us who bought a Tormach did just that, and I think most of us would recommend it.

    That said, short answer: yes, I'd certainly consider a Tormach based on what you've posted.

    But read the backstory. It's all there- the (almost always) good, the occasional bad, and the (very rare) ugly.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1041
    Sounds like a lemon... As for purchasing a Tormach, hands down the best decision I've made. Tormach exceeded my expectations.

    I had very similar issues like this before the Tormach, now I just worry about how fast can I cut this part out or if I make a fixture to increase my quantity. I just finished a 3 part run of 300 pcs (6061 AL 0.6" x 1-3/8" x 3.8") with no problems. It's a safe smart buy.



    Here's a few pics to check out



    Best finish I've gotten on my 1100


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1863
    First, welcome to the group.

    Second, as a former CNC shop owner (Haas and FADAL) I can tell you buying my PCNC1100 is the best thing I could have done.

    I bought my PCNC1100 last July. Actually, it was a year old on July 13. (Friday the 13th, YUK!)

    I run my machine 40 to 70 hours a week (depending on how ambitious I feel in any given week), and the ONLY problem I have had with it is some of the Bellville spring washers on the PDB broke. They were covered by the warrantee, so I got to take a couple of days off while I waited for them.

    It took about 4 days for them to get here because I am in Southern California.

    My shop is called Mid Day Machining because sometimes I start at 8:00 AM, but sometimes I start at 5:00 PM. Sometimes I'll quit at 5:00 PM, and sometimes I'll quit at 2:00 AM. Some days, I don't even turn the machine on.

    Sometimes, I'll turn the machine on and spend more time watching Law and Order reruns or drag racing than I do making parts. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, I have a 37 inch LCD TV next to my machine.

    I use my machine to make parts for gasoline powered remote control race boats and 1/5 scale gasoline powered cars, trucks and buggies.

    I had GibbsCam in my shop and that's what I use to program my machine.

    My PCNC 1100 will do ANYTHING my FADAL or my Haas would do, it just takes a little longer.

    I just finished a run of 75 rudders for the boats, with total run time was about 18 minutes each and on the Haas, it was 14 minutes. That runtime included drilling a 1/8 inch diameter hole 4 1/2 inches deep in a piece of 3/16 thick 7075 aluminum. I drilled 130 pieces and not one piece had the hole break out the side.

    14 minutes versus 18 minutes? $75,000.00 versus $15,000.00. You choose.

    I feel confident enough in my Tormach PCNC 1100 that I would tell you, if you were close to me, to bring your part over and I'll run your part on my machine just to show you what the PCNC will do.

    Bottom line, "YOU CAN'T GO WRONG WITH A TORMACH".
    You can buy GOOD PARTS or you can buy CHEAP PARTS, but you can't buy GOOD CHEAP PARTS.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    0
    Gorgeous finish! Can you share the setup?

    Quote Originally Posted by twocik View Post
    Sounds like a lemon... As for purchasing a Tormach, hands down the best decision I've made. Tormach exceeded my expectations.

    I had very similar issues like this before the Tormach, now I just worry about how fast can I cut this part out or if I make a fixture to increase my quantity. I just finished a 3 part run of 300 pcs (6061 AL 0.6" x 1-3/8" x 3.8") with no problems. It's a safe smart buy.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    36
    Thank you for the help twocik, I have not heard too much bad things at all, you seem to be making some good sized parts, what is the depth of cut you can make with a 1/2" 2fl end mill? Have you had any problems with the bearings not holding up or excessive vibration? I am going to post the part photos and see what everyone thinks!
    Best Regards

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    36

    Photos of the parts I need to cut with the Tormach

    These parts take four operations, I am wondering what the hog process will be like with the 1100, I thought I read that someone mentioned the machine can only cut .15 with a 1/2" End Mill? Thank you everyone for the help making the correct choice.


    http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/a...SuperMini2.jpg

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    986
    Nice tattoo machine. I am a machine builder too (see my website.). If you get one of the 17mm carbide insert mills, you will see an impressive material removal rate on aluminum. Chips fly like they do on a VMC.

    Frederic

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    36
    Hi Frederic,
    I have been building machines for 30 years started with Big Joe Kaplan and many more big named guys in the business; I have mainly worked towards the medical and cosmetic side of manufacturing and have several patents on designs such as this one. Check out the medical and tattoo history I did on a wounded veteran from desert storm three weeks ago. Look me up at Art Joe’s on Face book. I am a retired Marine of 23 years. I will tell more when time permits but enjoy what you see it has never been done before if you read the entire case. Thanks for all the help!
    John

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2512
    Quote Originally Posted by usarty1 View Post
    I am wondering what the hog process will be like with the 1100, I thought I read that someone mentioned the machine can only cut .15 with a 1/2" End Mill?


    Roughing video:

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnOdXxklWqk&list=PLD30BEC599D6128AE&index= 2&feature=plpp_video]Cutting 1" bar of 6061 Aluminum - Tormach CNC Application - YouTube[/ame]

    Phil

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    103
    That's the exact video I was going to post Phil! Haven't seen it in a few years.
    My Series 1 machine sees almost daily use for hours on end. I'm so happy with it, I just purchased another (Series II) and it's in the back of a Penske truck sitting outside my shop as I type!!:banana:
    As others have stated, Tormach is wonderful company to deal with, before, during and after the sale.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    789
    Like any machine, things will go wrong. That being said, much less has gone wrong on my Tormach than expected. I've had it about 6 years, and run pretty complicated, heavy cut parts on it. With regards to your cutting .125" deep with vibration, I've found with my 1/2" 2fl EM, to not go deeper than .15" DOC for a slot, regardless of feed rate. There is enough force involved that the tool itself and the machine aren't ridgid enough to remove that slot. However, anything less than a full slot and you can go much deeper.

    I highly recommend the Tormach. It's a great purchase. There aren't many things that it can't do which a reasonable person would expect it to.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    131
    I've had my Series I machine for 5 years now and my experience has been the same as almost everybody else's. (If you search, you'll find one or two who seemed more interested in bashing Tormach than fixing the problem)

    I would add that the core components like ball screws, ways, spindle and electronics have been stone reliable. Since my machines backlash has decreased with use, it's actually getting better with age. I also like that as Tormach upgrades there machines, they come out with a kit so I can upgrade my machine. They by far have the best customer support of anybody in any industry IMO.

    Good luck,
    Barry
    Tormach PCNC1100, Mach 3 R3.043.037, MastercamX5 level 3.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    36
    Thanks Barry,
    There is always someone unhappy, but the majority is far out weighing the negative, I can handle fixing problems, I just don't want to spend six months fixing continued problems and failures like the Baron XL. I know the machine better than the manufacture; unfortunately I cannot fix the processors that keep failing. The machine has been improved in every fashion by my fixes but there has to be a time to move on and realize the mistake and cost.
    Thank you,
    John

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    789
    Ok, since I'm the one who said .15" DOC was max, after looking at that video I have to say those are similar to my results. I considered the noise and vibration too much for normal cutting. I'm able to keep it vibration-free (read: not 110db) with a .15" DOC.

    No, the bearings aren't going to fail with that usage. It's a pretty sturdy machine.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2512
    The high noise level is typical of a wide piece clamped in a vise. Use table clamps and you will probably get a different result. Notice that the noise reduces dramatically when the geometry of the piece changes, with the mill still cutting at the same rate.

    Phil

    Quote Originally Posted by tbaker2500 View Post
    Ok, since I'm the one who said .15" DOC was max, after looking at that video I have to say those are similar to my results. I considered the noise and vibration too much for normal cutting. I'm able to keep it vibration-free (read: not 110db) with a .15" DOC.

    No, the bearings aren't going to fail with that usage. It's a pretty sturdy machine.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    36
    Hi Phil,
    When you’re hogging a part from T6 6061 are you cutting .15 with the 1/2' EM at a higher feed rate? The reason I am asking this question is that my part during the first operation taking .100 would take about 18 minutes, when the machine did run correctly and the bearings held up I had no issue and made several finish cuts. Unfortunately the Baron XL fails to stay together from constant processor failures and about every other part giving out at one time or another I could actually never mill daily. I don't mind cutting within the limitations to get quality at a slower rate I do not need to do more than ten parts a day. But the part has four operations to get the finish and at that rate might take all day to mill a few parts.
    Thank you for the help!

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    36

    Tormach will be the machine!

    I want to thank everyone for all the input, I have talked with Tormach and completed the research and have found nothing but good and reasonable information based on what the machine can do with regards to making parts from 6061T6.
    I have had to move forward with legal action against CNC Masters and report that the Baron XL is a total failure and is not capable of machining any part!
    I have purchased the URL Baronxl and will be building a website stating factual information about this China junk. I am a retired Marine and can still fight like a Bull Dog.
    It is unfortunate that the smallest mistake can be so costly when you buy equipment because not much is made here in the US anymore!
    Buyer bewares for all the new guys trying to start in CNC if you see this company my opinion is run!

    Thanks Guys,
    John USMC

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    789
    To clarify more about cutting .15" deep...

    Oops, memory came back. I'm cutting .2" deep.
    Yes, I am clamping a 12"x3"x1" piece in the vise, and philbur is right I'm sure that it'd do better clamped to the table. Also, note that I'm doing full slotting at 27ipm 4500 rpm with .2" DOC. That's something like a 0.5HP cut. I found it unreliable to try and do .7 or .8HP cuts 4500rpm. If anything isn't right- your cutter sharpness, recutting chips, etc, you'll stall the motor. There is a lot of discussion on here about what RPM gets the max HP from this machine. Also, I'm series 1 without the spindle drive upgrade.

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