[SomeWhatLost]

so I currently have a Fireball V90, and I was actually very happy with it... it exceeded all my expectations...

but that is kind of the problem with it... I kept pushing it harder, and yesterday it exploded...
well, not really exploded, as such, but still... I now find myself looking for an upgrade...

so I have been looking around, and the tormach 770 looks to be the best bang for the buck upgrade that I have found...

when I got the V90, I just wanted to play with cnc's (although, I would of preferred a real mill instead of a 'router on a stick' or whatever you would call it?)... I never expected to want to mill aluminum...but now I do, so it looks like the 770 can do aluminum just fine... but if history repeats, I may soon want to do steel or something hard like that... how well can the 770 handle harder materials?

for that matter what kind of ipm and depth of cut can I get out of a 770? I could only get ~3ipm, and 0.02" out of my v90 before it imploded... hopefully I can get much more out of a 770?

what other machines are in the same ballpark as the 770, and how do they compare?

I currently have cambam, is there any reason to get a different cam s/w? I notice tormach recommends cut2d/3d with the 770, is it really that much better than cambam?

as for cad, I have just been using visio to output 2D .dxf files, I really haven't found anything I like/understand for a price I am willing to pay for what is just a hobby for me... tormach seems to offer Alibre Design PE - Tormach Special Edition and the standard both for $199 are either of those any good?

[DiverBob]

I got my 770 a little over a year ago and have not regretted the purchase. It was an upgrade for me from a small desktop mill. It has enough power to cut just about anything with the right cutters. I primarily cut aluminum and delrin but have also cut steel without any issues. The steppers are very powerful, I think the only times I have lost steps have been when I made a g-code error and pushed the machine well past any reasonable type of a cut.
I would go for the mill again today if I had to. If you are in any doubt, it is well worth a trip to Tormachs headquarters in WI to see the machine in action and talk to their folks. I was impressed and really liked the on-going work they do to add new accessories. For me that was the final positive that got me to fork over the money.

Bob

[Steve Seebold]

I considered the 770 when I bought my machine. I also considered the 1100, and I decided for the extra $1,200 I could use the extra capacity. I'm really glad I did.

I have done a couple of steel jobs, but I have done a LOT of aluminum and so far my PCNC1100 hasn't let me down. The only thing I would like to have different is I would like the 10,000 RPM spindle like the 770 has.

I have run my machine 40 to 70 hours a week for a little over 13 months now without even a hicup.

You will have absolutely no regrets with a Tormach product.

[MichaelHenry]

I was using Visio about 10 years ago to do CAD, too, but was getting frustrated at how long it took and how hard it was to generate different views of the part. One week with the Alibre trial was enough to convince me to switch to it and I've been far more productive with projects that need CAD since then. If I had the budget, though, I'd give SolidWorks a run for its money. BTW, if you are considering AlibreCAM (the CAM add-on for Alibre) give serious consideration instead to buying a separate copy of Visual Mill by Mecsoft. AlibreCAM is OEMed by Mecsoft, but support must be obtained through Alibre and they don't seem to be very good at it from reports on Alibre's user forum. If you are buying a Tormach, SprutCAM is available at a great price through SprutCAMAmerica, which seems to be a subsidiary of Tormach. For about the same money as Visual Mill Standard, SprutCAM Pro has a lot more features and capabilities.

So far as mills go, you might also want to consider the Tormach PCNC 1100 - more horsepower and a larger work envelope will give you some room to expand with your projects.

There are several competing manufacturers that build/sell mills with comparable work envelopes and price points, but almost all of them seem to have some unhappy customers that have been vocal about their problems. Check through the threads on the vendor forums and come to your own conclusion.

Mike

[Steve Seebold]

When I had my shop, I used GibbsCam to program my machines. When I sold out, the new owners wanted to use Mastercam so I was forced to bring my GibbsCam home with me.

Now it works really well for my Tormach.

I had over $18,000.00 in my GibbsCam so I wasn't about to just throw it away.

[DiverBob]

I'm still using BobCad for my parts. It works fairly well for everything I have attempted thus far. I haven't done any 3D milling yet so I don't know how well it will handle that. Budget is the major constraint on getting another CAD CAM, all the extra cash is going to hobbies!

I considered the 1100 but since I needed to put what ever I got into my basement, the 770 was designed to be taken apart, that was the main reason I went with the 770. I could have used a larger table a couple of times but thinking out fixtures got me through the really big milling jobs.

[thefu]

When I had my shop, I used GibbsCam to program my machines. When I sold out, the new owners wanted to use Mastercam so I was forced to bring my GibbsCam home with me.

Now it works really well for my Tormach.

I had over $18,000.00 in my GibbsCam so I wasn't about to just throw it away.

im into my gibbs for $8000 so far...and really glad i made the purchase!

[Steve Seebold]

im into my gibbs for $8000 so far...and really glad i made the purchase!

What level do you have? I have basic, plus Solid Surfacer, Rotary milling, 4th and 5th axis machining, Lathe, MTM, and Wire EDM and I quit paying maintenance at Version 7.

[thefu]

production milling, solid surfacer, advanced cs, solids import, machine simulation, advanced flash cut part rendering, and volumill 2d/3d

when i get a lathe ill purchase lathe options.

[SomeWhatLost]

so, now I am considering the 1100... but there are issues(or questions?), sort of...
I was planning on putting the mill in my rather small basement (why did the original builders do a small basement/large crawlspace combo? they were already there, it wouldn't of hurt them to actually dig the rest out and make it a full basement... seriously, what where they thinking?), and really the 1100 wont fit, and where they put the door to get to the basement is stupid, you would probably never be able to make the turns needed...

but I do have a rather nice shed, the previous owner used it as a workshop, it is fairly spacious... it came with a car in it... (well, a kit car, and you had to pull the body off/angle it to get it out the door...)
currently I have my bikes stored in there.
looks kinda like this:

with a bit of cleaning, I could actually fit the 1100 behind where I was standing when I took that pic... and the shed has decent electrical... including a 240V/20A socket already installed right where I would want to put the 1100 if I go that route...

issues I can see with that though:
need to order it soon before it gets to rainy out and the ground gets too soft... while it is a straight(ish) line from driveway to shed, there is no paved path... could be problematic... maybe plywood under the cart/whatever I use to transport it... I guess, just leaving things crated and 'rolling' them would be bad?

this is Chicago, it gets a bit chilly in the winter, I probably would not want to use it for 3 months out of the year, unfortunately those would probably be the 3 months I wanted to use it the most (ie it is cold out, might as well make something)

how does the coolant handle freezing? I assume freezing is bad for the pump... can you use some sort of antifreeze? is there an oil you can use instead?

are there any other potential problems I may be overlooking?

also, not likely that I will pay $18K for software... there is no ROI for me, this is just a hobby... might go with the Alibre for cad (I need to see if they have a demo version), and I got the SprutCAM demo to see what it is like, and how it compares to cambam...

[concombrefrais]

I had my 770 in shed in my yard for about 2 years. I live in georgia, so the winter are nothing like in Chicago but it does freeze regularly and I never had a problem. But I am not using coolant so I cannot tell you about that. It is not very pleasant to work when it is freezing but you can install a small heater and it will make a big difference. If you want you could even insulate your shed, I thought about doing it (for the summer actually!). Also and surprisingly, I found that when I am machining I warm up, like if I were walking! But again that's only Georgia's winter.
For the summer I just installed a window ac unit on the wall and it worked great. Even though it is very humid here, the machine has no rust anywhere.
I love my 770 by the way, it is absolutely perfect for me. I think you would be very happy with it, though if you have the space/money and unless you make only small pieces (no one really does) or engraving, go with the 1100. The extra space always comes handy!
By the way, I wrote a short review of my 770 here: avartmetalworks.com
Christian

[MichaelHenry]

You might be able to get the PCNC 1100 into your basement if you are willing to disassemble it into several components. That cancels the warranty but shouldn't cause any problems if you use common sense.

Here's how my wife and I did moved a Series I to the basement of our townhome:

Tormach PCNC 1100 CNC Mill

You will need sufficient headroom, though. Something like 84 inches. Mine is located with the spindle directly between two ceiling joists.

Mike

[SomeWhatLost]

the basement is small, so the size of the 1100 would be the limiting factor... it is just too big...

but the shed is a nice size, and I actually think it may be built better then the house (built in the 60's by people who were obviously on drugs...)

and the shed has insulated walls, and a carpeted 2nd floor ( well half a floor, more of a crawl space or storage space...
also has a couple real house sized windows that I could put a AC unit in if needed...

and I could use a space heater of some sort in the winter..

but still there would be times when things could freeze... kind of worried about the coolant...

[Steve Seebold]

If all you're worried about is your coolant freezing, why not consider putting the tank on a hot plate and just turn it on its lowest setting.

I don't have that problem here. On a really cold day in the winter, it might get down to 57 degrees, oh, but on a hot day, that's a different story.

On a really, really hot day, it might get up to 85 degrees. Right now, it's 82 degrees in the shop/garage. I'm thinking about knocking off till after the sun goes down and I get a nice breeze off the ocean. If I do that, I'll probably work till between midnight and 2:00 AM. I do that a lot. I have great neighbors and no one has ever complained about the noise.

I shouldn't say no one has ever complained. I took a 1/5 scale race car out in the street a couple of weeks ago and a cop showed up. All he did was watch and tell me to slow it down. I guess 70 MPH with a 30 pound car is a little fast for a residential street. It was fun though.

[tbaker2500]

Hee hee...

[rowbare]

If you are worried about coolant, you could go with a Fog Buster system and simply empty the tank into a container when you are done. Then you can bring the container indoors. It is a total loss coolant so you wouldn't be bringing skunky coolant into the house.

bob

[SCzEngrgGroup]

A simple fish tank heater should easily keep coolant from freezing....

Regards,
Ray L.

[Steve Seebold]

If you are worried about coolant, you could go with a Fog Buster system and simply empty the tank into a container when you are done. Then you can bring the container indoors. It is a total loss coolant so you wouldn't be bringing skunky coolant into the house.

bob

Bob,

I use a FogBuster for most applications. but the part I am working in now has a .500 dia. drill and ream hole that is 4.250 deep. The FogBuster works great on the outside work, but it doesn't work on the drill and ream at all.

I have said before, I have been a FogBuster user since 2004. For profiling and surfacing operations, you can't beat it, but for pocketing, drilling, reaming and tapping, it's not that great. It just doesn't have the pressure or volume to clear chips when pocketing.

[SomeWhatLost]

thanks for all the ideas...

I thought about the fish tank heater... and it seems like there isn't any reason it couldn't work. the only thing is the coolant in the lines might freeze... be a bummer if I wanted to 'brave the cold' to go mill and I had no coolant flow... of course, if it is cold out, do you still need coolant?

also, how 'freezable' is coolant anyway? has anyone ever left a jug of it out in the winter and actually had it freeze? I know it is like 80% water, but what is in that other 20%? might it lower the freezing point just enough to not matter? its only Chicago winter after all, it is not like it is the south pole or anything...

anyway, the biggest hurdle now is the $$$ it is a rather large chunk of change to try and wrangle up...

[Sp-4renegade]

I am in Minnesota, coolant will turn too a slush, I use water soliable cutting oil.