[Beefy]

Hi Everyone,

The name's Keith and live in Melbourne, Australia (where it's always raining it seems). After being an industrial electrician, got into tight access excavation (big mistake) and been doing it for over a decade, but that's died off something terrible with this wonderful recession, it's like I was never in the industry at all. I'm at the stage of sending my resume out unless I can pick up some cash to pay the bills, so I'm hunting for suggestions from anyone.

Do you think I'd be an irritation, asking other businesses for the customers they don't want. You know the ones that come in with a little job that just gets in the road of your bigger more profitable ones. Or would they just look at me as helping someone become a competitor later on. I don't like pestering other businesses if I've nothing to offer them, and especially if they view me as a threat.

I've set myself up with a reasonable home based workshop, my most prized toy being my home built CNC plasma cutting table, with a max cutting area of 2.4 by 1.5 metres. Has automatic torch height control and intial height sensing. Got a Hyperthem 1250 with Duramax machine torch hooked up to it so it will easily slice through 3/4". I designed and built a grab for my mini excavator, 16mm steel and it didn't even notice it. I've also got the hand torch for the Hypertherm.

My other toys are:

Lathe - 1.5m between centres
Bridgeport style mil
Floor standing pedestal drill
Bandsaw
330 amp mig
arc welder
Hydraulic press
Artistic CAD - Coreldraw
3D solid modelling cad - Alibre Design
Basic 2D cad - Draftsight and SolidEdge2D
Basic oxy acetylene hand setup.

My main aim with all of this was to design and make attachments for my own excavation tasks, and to possibly rent and/or sell them too, which would have been a suck it and see game to see it there would be any interest. Lots of ideas but no cash now, and still paying off the equipment loan. It's been nothing but learning, learning, learning (repeat that a few more times), building, hunting for info, and of course spending without knowing if you'll really get a return.

Like I said I'm a backyarder so can't really have a bunch of customers knocking on my door, have to keep everything low profile. Bit of a catch 22 at present but you have to start somewhere.

If anyone has any ideas as to where I might pick up some mortgage paying money with my backyard setup, I'd appreciate it. Feel like I'm all dressed up and no place to go at present. My capabilities at this point are quite basic, although my best tolerance was to 100th millimetre (cool the metal before the last cut so contraction didn't affect it) and I'm quite reasonable with thread cutting. Surface finish is always a hit and miss affair too at present.

Cheers,

Keith.

[Al_The_Man]

Sounds like you are deciding which area to go into, there is nothing wrong with knocking on doors and maybe some of those outfits that turn the small customer away may see it as an opportunity to farm the small stuff out and not lose a customer?
If you have no present track record, you will virtually have to go out there as at the moment nobody knows about you, if you do good work, future work will come from work and mouth.
Al.

[Beefy]

Hi Al,

yes at the moment I feel completely blind as to where to start looking. I have to admit I'm not confident going out there to established businesses and basically saying, "giz-a-job", especially when I'm not an experienced machinist or whatever. Guess I'm expecting sighs and eye rolling.

If I can get some direction then that is a lot better than walking round an industrial estate or wherever knocking on just any door, and feeling like a desperate idiot 80% of the time. That's why I've listed my equipment and a little of my history so I can be told (bluntly if need be) where I might stand.

I'm under no illusions that many experienced shop owners reading this may be thinking, "this guy has no idea", and if that is the case then I'm all the wiser for it. I appreciate constructive criticism. My heart and passion is in bringing to life some of the concepts I've created while being in the excavation game. So far it's just been setting up my workshop, continuous learning, building my cnc plasma table, etc, etc (and being a relatively new dad of 2 kids to add to the equation). The recession has stuffed up what little income I got so now it's just down to try and pay the bills, never mind my "eureka ideas" LOL.

By the way I like your phrase, “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.” While I'm excavating I just cannot stop thinking of new ideas for equipment that will do the job better, faster, etc. I just about have a dictaphone glued to me and record ideas as they pop into my head. While in my bobcat one day going backwards and forwards a hundred times with soil and mulch I thought about using pneumatic conveying for the job. Started making all sorts of plans and design notes (absolutely no money to realise the dream of course) and a year later a great big truck comes out doing exactly this. Now there's quite a few mobs doing it. Unknown to me it had been done in the States for years but it's new here in Australia. As well as other ideas I've created I still have a new concept for the bark blower that I think could unfortuneatly be quite threatening to the big players, but that's for a day when / if I have the cash to prototype it. Ah, money, money, money.

Thanks for your input Al,

Keith.

[dblox]

I have a busy business doing CNC milling, so I can't comment specifically on your equipment, but if I were in your situation this is what I would consider doing:

The city I live in has quite a few sheet metal businesses (laser cutters, turret punches, press brakes) that seem to focus mainly on materials with a maximum thickness of 10mm. Customers frequently come in to these businesses with jobs requiring 16 - 20mm plate to be cut and welded.

I would approach all of the local laser equipped sheetmetal fabricators and ask for plasma work. Instead of treading on toes, you are helping their business. If they don't have alot of welding gear, ask them if they need help with any tight turnaround welding jobs or work overflow.

Mention that you have a lathe & mill and you might find yourself tapping holes or milling slots too. The sheetmetal guys around here seem to want to focus on sheetmetal, and not get in to "general engineering" which is something you might be able to help them with.

Just print off a couple hundred business cards and knock on some doors. Be honest but confident about your capabilities and situation.

There is plenty of work out there to keep one small business running. You just need to pry enough of it away from the big guys.

[Beefy]

Hi Dblox

very much appreciated, that's the type of advice I'm seeking. It never occured to me to ask laser cutters for spin off work. In actual fact I thought they would have looked at me as their enemy.

As far as honesty goes, I actually have a weakness there. I hate having to BS my way through anything. I'm always being told to tell potential customers I'm flat out with business even if I have nothing, but I generally don't, I just say it how it is. Not good for business I know. I'd rather under-promise and over delivery than visa-versa. I'll have to work on the confidence bit though, maybe I'll practise in the mirror LOL.

Thanks again,

Keith.

[harryn]

I would take the time to write down on some paper a sort of "capabilities" list.

Example:
- List of equipment
- With pictures if you have it
- Some pictures of projects you have done, both large and small.
- Don't worry about perfect, just get some out there for now. Color is better, black and white are fine.

Many businesses have an internal machine shop, or probably should. Since you are new at this, start by calling 3 businesses each day. Ask for the purchasing manager and ask if you can meet him.

These are busy people, but their job is to know about people like you. This means they want to know about your business, what you can do, but also, they need to know it quickly.

Makes sure you can explain what you do in 1 minute. This take practice, so write down what you want to say, not every word, but the top 10 items that describe your business.

Be prepared to tell them what your shop rate price is for your work. I know it doesn't say everything, but they need to know.

After you have contacted 10 businesses, let us know what happened, and we can help you refine your approach.

Good luck.

Harry

[CaptainVee]

Very good advise in this thread.

I have actually asked for business at a large wholesaler to take over a product line I knew they had trouble with. They said, "Please go and do that"

If you do the research and know where their strengths are and what that means to their weaknesses, you can offer a solution that is crystal clear.

[Beefy]

Thanks very much lads.

Harry that is great advise, and getting my "sales package" together is what I'll need to do before contacting anyone. I especially like what you said about it taking practise to get your summarised speech perfected. It will simplify things too if I tell them what I can and cannot do, rather than tell them I can't do something when they want me to do it. Promise less, give more.

Cheers,

Keith.

[harryn]

Thanks very much lads.

Harry that is great advise, and getting my "sales package" together is what I'll need to do before contacting anyone. I especially like what you said about it taking practise to get your summarised speech perfected. It will simplify things too if I tell them what I can and cannot do, rather than tell them I can't do something when they want me to do it. Promise less, give more.

Cheers,

Keith.

Hi Keith,

I am glad it seems helpful. I do Sales and Business Development Consulting for a living, so if you thought it was useless, I would be in trouble. It isn't easy to balance "Running the business every day" and "Thinking about growing it".

[Beefy]

It isn't easy to balance "Running the business every day" and "Thinking about growing it".

You're right there Harry. My biggest problem is that I never seem able to focus on something long enough to get absorbed in it. I alway get dragged away by the basic running of the business, repairs and maintenance, family commitments, it goes on and on.

I've got my primary business (tight access excavation) which is crap for many reasons, then I've set up my little engineering shop, built the plasma table, and as for the learning I feel like I'm doing a degree at university in addition. And amongst all that I manage to do a little bit of marketing reading and build an 80 page website for the excavation business.

I understand why many don't want a business LOL. If I get any more burnt out I'll be looking for a job.

[Pleine]

Not sure if my situation is just an exception, but ... : I did some prototypes for my woman who is a product designer. Word-of-mouth now brings in at least one, two requests per week for prototypes, or models. Mostly shells, but sometimes complete working apparatus. It seems that industrial designers have a big need in getting physical. Budgets are tight, and time-frames are short, but there is business. Metal folding capabilities is a must.

And to answer your question: Yes, model making is something that most established businesses won't do because of uncertainty of methods, short turn-around and tiny budgets.