[Zoner]

Please help, urgent...

On careless advice, lost params & macros with DEL/RESET. Reloaded CNC params but...

1. Toolchange carousel (20 tools) not working, even from panel buttons.

Should the carousel work once a toolchange macro is installed?

If yes, which toolchange macro should I try for this 20-tool magazine please?

If no, how can I troubleshoot the carousel and which commands might help me to energise it directly?

2. MPG handset not working - "HNDL" is displayed on selecting it but no movement.

Have set obvious parameters in list 27 at front of Parameters manual.

Is there any other obscure param I missed that would activate the MPG?

Should I select Specification A, or B, or does it not matter as we have only 1 MPG?

Very many thanks in advance, for any help at all.

[underthetire]

Machine side parameters, and you need to post what you got.

[Zoner]

Thanks underthetire...

What do you want to see, and how do I get it out for you pls?

[underthetire]

What brand machine? What type? ATC is always up to the builder, not the control builder.

[Zoner]

Ah, it's a Kryle VMC700F, Vertical Machining Centre?

It's got a two-axis table and a tool spindle on the Z(vertical) axis, with the 20-tool autochanger, just a rotary umbrella thing that rotates to bring a tool slot in line with the spindle and then travels out under the spindle by pneumatic pressure so the spindle can either pull up off the current tool once it's clipped into the empty slot, or load another one by descending onto the tool and the carousel pulls back.

And the Manual Pulse Generator was working before too, we only had these problems since the CNC Parameters and the toolchange macro were wiped (Power-on with DEL-RESET) so I don't think it's a fault, or do you think it could be?

[f-bu]

Have you entered PMC parameters - keep relays, timers, counters & datas after initializing?

[Zoner]

Unfortunately we had only a listing of params 0001-9899.

We put these in again.

But we also lost the toolchange macro, O9001.

There are still values in Diagnostic params but we don't know if they are correct.

We did a power on with RESET-DEL, what would this delete?

[underthetire]

Never even heard of that one. There are machine side parameters (PMC) that you must enter. They are not with the 0-9999 parameters, different page. If you don't have them you will need to find them or the machine will never work again.

[Al_The_Man]

Power on RESET-DEL with PWE=1 clears the whole memory
Power on RESET PWE=1 clears parameters
Power on DELETE with PWE=1 clears programs.
Al.

[stevo1]

Zoner,
I got your PM.

As Al has already stated with the RESET-DEL you have cleared all of your programs so that is why you lost your 9001 macro program. So this will have to either be rewritten which we can do in a very basic fashion to get you doing tool changes and add whatever you may want. Or if you can get it from the MTB that would be better.

It sounds as if you have your parameters and or option parameters set incorrectly when you were reloading them. Did you have to load them by hand or do you have an electronic copy of them that you downloaded via RS232? It is very easy to mess them up when loading by hand. I have never been able to bat 100 when doing that so I would start there. You also could maybe have an old copy that was not current with how the machine was when you lost them.

First thing we need to know is what model Fanuc control are you using???

Stevo

[Zoner]

Thank you guys, we're in deep trouble.

OK it's a Fanuc 0MF.

We had only an old printout of the params 0001-9899, we keyed them in by hand. I have a backup copy on the PC now so once we solve it we'll have good backups too.

I can recheck those tomorrow by hand, Steveo.

But we don't have the Diagnose params listing, many do have values but we have nothing to check them against to see if they are correct. During playing with them I note that many can't be changed, only a few?

I set diag param 383.0=1 today and found the 4th axis jog keys on the axis console worked on the carousel after a power-off-on, but this is not a normal tool step, the carousel turns smoothly through all degrees and the tool slot is no longer aligned with the spindle! So I turned it off again, we'll have to re-index it once we get it going and get to know how to re-index too!

Should I get a proper carousel tool-position step by loading a new toolchange macro and setting up the parm that points the M6 to O9001? I forget which one it is but I will find it.

Or do we need to re-enter all the tool entries too?

Or do we still need some diagnose params to be set, which we don't have?

Still waiting for Fanuc UK to get back to us, they did reply that they should have our listings but are very busy (last week!).

As we have no contract we'll just have to wait our turn.

But please keep the suggestions coming, I am paying attention and will try anything, we are desperate to get the machine up again.
Thanks everyone.

[Al_The_Man]

You need the diagnose timer/counter values and also the 9000 macro's, these are from the MTB, not Fanuc.
The way to prevent the 9000 macro from being deleted in the future with part programs is to set P0010 bit #4 to 1, 0 allows editing and viewing.
Al.

[Zoner]

Hi Al,

OK, we can get a toolchange macro, I have seen several on this forum, thanks to all the guys that posted them.

But we don't have a listing of our machine's diagnostics parameter values, and we don't have a manual that lists them. Are these the ones they call "PMC Parameters"?

Does anyone have just a plain a list of them with descriptions from a manual, please, so that we stand a chance of putting some sensible values in??

===

The parameter 0010.4 was always set to 1 (param 0010=10010001), we only found out about its existence after I started working on the machine.

My buddy did a PWE=1 and Power-On while holding down RESET and DEL, as he was advised to do by someone just reading a manual on the end of a phone without realising the full extent of what it might do.

So a WARNING to others is due:-

DANGER!
This type of reset WILL CLEAR EVERYTHING! despite protection bits in various registers!

If you have backups, you are safe, just reload them - sadly we did not. And this is because the people who came from Greece and installed the machine didn't leave any, other than the CNC Parameters printout, nor took any final backups, even though the machine was working and connected to the PC, nor told my buddy he needed to take some, nor showed him how to make his own backups. And now their company's gone anyway.

I will post up a backup procedure when I get some time, unless someone already did?

Thank you for continuing to help, everyone.

[stevo1]

I am not sure exactly on your machine but typically the PMC data for tool change only needs to have the tool in the spindle and the magazine position number. All machines are different but I ass u me that to be the most common.

As to your tool change position being off there are a few different ways this can be set. If your tool change position is at Z0 then it is just a matter of programming that in the tool change macro before the M6. If it is not at Z0 then you can 1.either hardcode it in the tool change macro the Z distance it is off or 2.if you have the 2nd,3rd, 4th reference position options on your control you can set your tool change position in those parameters. Do you remember if your tool change program had like a G53G30P()Z0 in it? If so then it was a reference position for the tool change.

I don’t have any of my manuals or data with me at the moment but IIRC it is #240-#242 calls programs 9001-9003. There are also options to activate the MPG but like I stated I don’t have any data with me today.

Do you have a parameter manual to compare any values to? I believe that there are parameters to set certain values pertaining to the MPG so if you had the manual you could look them up and see if the current settings make sense.

(As a side note) I can never stress enough that the first thing that you do to a machine new or used regardless of what hard or electronic data you are given when you first put power to a machine is backup everything. I think most people including myself have all learned this the hard way.

Stevo

[Zoner]

Thanks Stevo,

I found a 0M-C parameter manual on the web but it only gives us the CNC parameters, not the PMC Parameters (Diagnose parameters? - what's the proper name?) that we seem to need. I set the values for the MPG that are given in table 27, but it's still not activated.

If anyone can point me to a PMC parameters manual for the 0M it would be fantastic?

Unfortunately my buddy didn't open the toolchange macro when the machine was running, he just remembered it was O9001, but now it's gone.

Our pals at Fanuc are still too busy to dig out our backups. I'm not blaming them, they do have a lot on their plate with paying customers, I understand that.

My fear is that those original backups may be too old for us now anyhow, they are in their archives from when the machine left their factory... I imagine it may well be like the Indiana Jones type archive... 5 million crates all stacked up somewhere, and one... is smouldering...!!

[stevo1]

Zoner...can you PM me your 900 parameters that you have? I just want to varify some of the settings for you just to eliminate if you have it turned on or not.

Stevo

[kmcwhq]

Man......Am I watching this thread close!
Same dilema with (2) Kryle VMC 500B's (Oct & Nov 1990 build dates)

If you have a machine start up / home procedure list, I could use that as I'm not even familiar with how these machines must be powered up/ homed.


Here's my thread in this (Fanuc) forum
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94852

My MPG works....axes jog. Tool changer....not so good.....

Here is the T/C macro listed in the Kryle "program training course on Fanuc OMF control" manual:

O9003

G91 G28 Z0.;
G28 G40 X0. Y0.;
M23;
M19;
M21;
M26;
G0 Z110.;
M24;
G28 Z0;
M25;
M22;
M99;


ATC Function list

M23 ATC reference check
M19 Spdl orient
M21 Magazine right
M26 Tool Unclamp
M24 Tool Select
M25 Tool Clamp
M22 Magazine Left


HOPE THIS HELPS..........??

dk

[Zoner]

Zoner...can you PM me your 900 parameters that you have? I just want to varify some of the settings for you just to eliminate if you have it turned on or not.

Stevo

Hi Steveo,

Very many thanks! I sent you the links in a PM a couple of days ago, forgot to reply here.

kmcwhq: Thanks for the macro, will try it out, very much appreciated.

I'm not familiar with the machine yet, but here's in brief what we know, which is not much!:

Set axes: move them all to the place you want to set as Absolute 0 (for us it's X=maximum right just before crash-stop, Y=maximum back (towards us) just before crash-stop, Z=in line with autochanger tool slot, we take off the air & move the changer out by hand, then move Z to line up the spindle into the tool slot).

We sometimes need to set parameter 0022 to xxxx0000 (normally 00001111) to inhibit the axes overtravel alarms so we can move them to the right place, then power off/on, then set parameter 0022 = xxxx1111 again, then off/on once more.

Then: G90 G92 x0 y0 z0 to set these positions as Absolute 0 in G92. We then set G54 for work 0.

Also sending you a PM.

[kmcwhq]

Set axes: move them all to the place you want to set as Absolute 0 (for us it's X=maximum right just before crash-stop, Y=maximum back (towards us) just before crash-stop,

When you say "crash-stop" you mean just before it hits the limit switch right..??


I'm feeling good that I can share more info with you that
may help you and then you may be able to help me understand this procedure as well.

I've fired up my old scanner and I will email you files of the Kryle default parameters, tool changer setting procedure details as you refer to here, and D parameters, maybe Diagnostic? I have no idea....

Email sent shortly........

dk

[stevo1]

Zoner,

I know it’s a bit OT but there should be no need to use G92 for setting.

Do you have absolute or incremental encoders? IOW do you have to reference your machine at each power up?

Your machine position can be set in your 1st reference position which in your control is parameters 708-711. The numbers put in here are the distance from machine origin to machine home which would the position as you described you are setting with G92. Once set there is no reason to change it. Also no need to shift with G92 and avoid any potential problems associated with it.

How do you keep track of your tool lengths if you are always setting with G92?

Stevo