[maz43]

This has been my intro to Swisturn.
The place I work recently got a Hanwha XD20-h swissturn to run double ended "hose barb" connectors out of 304l ss.
The sales guy fed the owner a line of hooey and the owner took the bait.
I warned the owner at the outset that this job was not a money maker due to the material and part geometry.
The machine has no probing and no automatic fire extinguisher.
I warned the owner about cutting oil being flammable and the inconsistent nature of 304lss.
The owner took the salesman's bait and is under the assumption the machine runs itself and can run 12hrs per day after everyone leaves.

The training was supposed to be 2 weeks- I got less than two days.
The guys doing installation and support knew very little about new machine.
The barfeed tech quit the second day and they sent a salesman to train me.
I spite of this I figured things out and am running parts within the cycle time they originally set.
I have been running it for about a month now.
The parts are a chip clearing nightmare due to the grooves on each end of the workpiece and every so often the part fails to extract from the subchuck.
They now insist on running unattended(finally realizing the job isn't a money maker?) so the last two days I let it run after hours.
It made it three hours the first night and 6 hours the second night before getting a part extract fault.
The owner thinks the problem is me and the operator- not his uniformed
decision and his blind trust in a salesman.
He keeps changing part quotas and specs after the deal was done.

Do any of you guys deal with this kind of crap or am I just special?

Maz

[txcncman]

Does your tool box have wheels on the bottom of it?

[ProProcess]

Does your tool box have wheels on the bottom of it?

Now that's funny!!

[MikeMc]

:stickpoke

Does your tool box have wheels on the bottom of it?

:stickpoke

[Geof]

....The place I work recently got a Hanwha XD20-h swissturn to run double ended "hose barb" connectors out of 304l ss......Maz

Why are you making double ended "hose barb" connectors out of 304l? I thought the 'l' in 304l meant it was the preferred alloy for welding. If these "hose barbs" are being welded into something I guess you are stuck but if they are just used in hoses surely they could be made out of 303 ss.

[maz43]

Does your tool bx have wheels on the bottom of it?

Yes, it does have wheels and that thought has crossed my mind more than once.
The part I am making is part of an assembly to make a "tee" and the customer wants 304l. It is for an automotive application.

I got it to do 10 hrs unattended last night, but still not good enough for the big guy.

[MCImes]

you have a bad boss. I think everyone can agree on that.
Ive worked at 3 swiss shops and I have only been told to run 2 jobs unattended and niether for that long (12hrs)

One was a brass job that you had to offset once a week. An ideal job for lights out. The other is 303 but its a well proven process that is very stable.

In your case lights out with 304 is questionable IMO, certainly for that period of time. Id say there is little you can do to improve things.

Assuming ejection is the only issue what happens? The part "droops" when the collet opens and the KO rod hits it off center then it wedges in the sub collet? You could try making a KO rod with a concave cone in the end to "center" and "cup" the part as it pushes. Are you using a simultaneous air blast during eject? that helps.

Also, on the Nexturn i used to run (very very similar to the xd) the KO rod was hollow for air blast but you could probably hook a high pressure coolant line to it to blast the #&^@ out of the part. You might need a containment system though. 1000 psi will send stuff flying.

If your issue is chips wrapping around the part search my name and I posted a custom macro chip breaker program that works great at reducing chip wrap/nests

Good luck

[txcncman]

I have also run a tool "backward" across a part with a couple of thou clearance to pull chips off before secondary clamping. Especially running plastics.

[maz43]

assuming ejection is the only issue what happens? The part "droops" when the collet opens and the KO rod hits it off center then it wedges in the sub collet? You could try making a KO rod with a concave cone in the end to "center" and "cup" the part as it pushes. Are you using a simultaneous air blast during eject? that helps.

Also, on the Nexturn i used to run (very very similar to the xd) the KO rod was hollow for air blast but you could probably hook a high pressure coolant line to it to blast the #&^@ out of the part. You might need a containment system though. 1000 psi will send stuff flying.

The ejection issue is the problem. Every once in a while a chip wraps and hangs in the groove in the workpeice, the sub swallows it and the ejector rod jams.
The machine has seven m-code selectable HP coolant lines with a unit that goes to 2000 psi. I am running it @ 1000 at the moment.
I have a line rigged through the sub and "blast the crap" out of the part before pickup with the sub. I am using hp on front turn, back turn, and cutoff.
I believe the culprit is chips from the groove op so I will be rigging HP to that tool also.

I agree the boss is a tool but the machine is fascinating to a 3.5 axis mill and 2 axis lathe guy.
I want to learn all I can about it before employing the "box wheels" approach.

maz

[Mountain_Hiker]

Interesting speaking about the boss. I am newer to the swiss machines myself. The worst part for me, is that is what I started out on straight out of a CNC certificate program. They are difficult machines. I have not messed much with your standard CNC lathes, but I'm going to guess and suppose that these swiss machines are twice the trouble of a standard CNC lathe, because I have only operated the standard CNC lathes. I've not really had anybody in front of me that was very skilled with these things to be able to pass the knowledge on to me. I've found myself picking up most all of it myself. A lot of companies don't want to take the time to train. I'm guessing you have had some of these same similar thoughts that I am mentioning, so you are not the only one. I would probably ride the system for a little while, as there isn't really any other reasonable work to get into at the current time, just my two cents.

It's also interesting about this career, because our industries have all of this technology, but no workforce to support it. The industry supposes you need education to be able to work in that industry, but your education yields you with a very minimum understanding. I even ask some of my co-workers questions that I think they would know something on, and they don't seem to know. I think us individuals that know these Swiss CNC lathes, are going to be an even greater asset to the industry within the next 5-10 yrs. or so. Unfortunately, I think our economy is only on a false increase at the time, so we will probably still not make top dollar. Our corporations, education, and economy needs restructured, and until they start realizing this thing, we will just be on a plateau until they get smart. Ha, I was about to go on into a lengthy conversation about some other things, but I won't in case they want to remove my post, ha. It's not wrong to consider these thoughts. A person just has to know how to sort them in their mind. The only thing some people know is to not be pesimistic, but they need to understand that the negatives need to be considered with the positives and not just ignored, which is what those kind of people typically do because they don't know what else to do.

[VSO]

Hi,

I do have XD20-H. I can understand your problem. I do not know about the length of the part you make, but try making longer pusher tips. What i mean is, sub spindle will grab the part and the pusher spring will became close. When it opens the sub chuck with M21 code, the part will be thrown with the power of spring, too. You can also try to pull back the part out of the guide bush before cut - off. It is an ideal way to get rid of chips;

***
T0101;
S2000M3;
G50W-10.45;
G0X20.;
G98G1Z-8.F4000
G98G1Z76.F4000
G99
G0X10.5Z76.
G1X-1.F0.05
M5
M92
M95
M96
M97
M30
%

[maz43]

Thanks for the tips.
I am getting 300 pcs per night (unattended) and solved my chip/part eject problem.
The groove chips were the culprit. My sub chuck has .02 inch travel from closed to open with sufficient grip to hold the part for deep drilling.
Simply making a thinner chip eliminated ejector jams.

And then........
The owner buys material from a different vendor.

Maz

[SwissBeast]

Not sure the configuration of the tools on your machine but on some of our Citizens I mount a z-axis live tool holder on the turret and use it to brush/pull chips from the parts at various sections during machining

[mikeswiss]

I've been running Swiss machines in lights out mode for over 15 years and chips and ejecting parts out of the sub are a continuing issue. On the chips I've done a few different things like, retreat the part back into the guidebushing letting the guidebushing take off the chip. Works sometimes to all the time depending on the job. I have also mounted a small brush in a toolholder and then programmed the brush to sweep off chips. Sounds crazy but it works. Also you can blast the chips using high pressure coolant.

But the big issue is fire. In the last month 3 of our machines have caught on fire in lights out runs. Our Tornos TB Deco was the last casultly. Melted the S2 and S3 spindle encoder cables. We was down for 5 days doing repairs. And this is with fire suppression on the machine.

Also, if you get fire suppression on the machine have them run a trigger line near the chip tank. The run all the lines on the ceiling of the machine. If the fire is in the tank it has to generate enough heat to trip the suppression. If you have any cables near there like on the Tornos you're gonna be screwed. I've had them come back in and run lines near the bottom of the chip tank.

Good luck,

Mike