[MIDDEN300]

has anyone bought a 24x24 cnc router with linear rails and bearings they
are on ebay for aprox 2250.00 the seller is signal-seeker if so what did
you think of machine seems to have good reviews.did you think it is very
rigid.

[parsifaldruddle]

I almost bought one - Paypal glitched and kinda saved me, i think.

He makes a lot of valid points about his rigs and the value of rails over unsupported rods, but SBRs and other options are just as good, depending on the application. And the other options are all cheaper, and that matters at the hobby / small business end of the spectrum. Same goes for ballscrews and nuts - excellent, but pricey and often hard to employ vs other just as functional options.

And while his rigs appear very sturdy, I was looking at the cross-beam for the y drive on the 2x2 and 2x4 'commercial' rigs, and it looked like rather small alu extrusion just waiting to flex. If I had ended up with one, a bigger extrusion or a piece of stiffening steel would have been added.

He also took a couple potshots at some others that were unnecessary and not quite on-the-mark. RP, belt and chain drives all have been very successfully employed - those folks don't make or sell trash, and they have reputations and customer bases which support that.

I can find tons of reviews and build logs on just about any system, except Sig's. He sells'em, gets 100% feedback ratings - but damn, where's the excited, happy customers blogging the virtues? Your post was the only mention of his rigs I found on CNCZ - and I was looking because I thought "here's a maybe gruff guy who knows his stuff - gotta be someone on the zone talking about it." Only found your post - so that made me leery.

Linear rails and ballscrews are the bees knees for many applications, but are they the 'best' for DIY/Hobby/Small Biz? If cost isn't the issue and they are properly employed (because rails contract and expanded, get banged, nicked, bent and ballscrews wear and can sag appreciably, etc.) and your application requires them - grab'em! wow!

I've got a couple linear rails, SBRs, ballscrews and Acme screws I'm gathering for projects. But I bought a CNCRP CRP4848 to actually build anything with those awesome parts, because there is an available user base full of experience, proven and visible performance and from all reports the best in customer support. (and, i think it's prettier)

I think you'll get a fine machine if you avoid the single drive on the y models - as for support and a helpful user base - who knows?

just my ha'penny blather...

[cmadki4]

I've been checking these out as well. They look really well made and a great base model to start with and improve on.

Rigidity doesn't look like it would be too much of an issue, but I want to cut aluminum sheet so I would probably beef things up just a bit and possibly add a second Y axis ball screw to eliminate gantry torque.

The seller has been very responsive to my questions and he gets good feedback on eBay. Now if that translates into an actual quality machine, that is unknown.

I asked what he would take off the total to do away with the included control and motors. He was willing to take off a fair chunk. Then I could just use my G540 and Surestep motors that I already have on my plasma table.

I'm potentially moving away from using the plasma table due to the type of work I'm doing more and more of. A CNC router makes much more sense. And I could put it in my basement safely.

So, long story short, these do seem like decent setups Signal-Seeker is selling. But it would be nice to get some first-hand experience feedback. I may contact others who have purchases his systems.

EDIT: Got a reply back from Signal-Seeker on the actual extruded profile used and it 1020. Or 1" x 2". Over that 50" span that's bound to be prone to flex.

[headsupcnc]

Bought one... Solid Machine. I went to Ohio to pick it up. The seller was very helpful. He showed me all the ends and outs of the machine and gave me a few pointers. It went together well. very tight tolerances on the part. The Z was assembled so all I had to do was X.Y. I bought a piece of MDF board for the bed and screwed it to the rail plates. The Stepper and board were easy to install with MACH 3 as signal-seeker gives you the XML files for the configuration. I was up and cutting wood material in about 5 hrs. It's a really good machine for the money. Again, very well made. I have cut both 2.5 and 3D on it so far with out any troubles. Well, that's not totally true. I did have one of the screws back out on my dampers. Didn't see that little set screw in there. Bad eyes. But once I got that tightened it was good to go. I have cut hundreds of parts with the machine.

[DHay13]

Didn't see this post until today. I bought one from him last June. I am very happy with it. I didn't do much with it until about August. I had '0' experience wit CNC's or CAD/CAM. I too bought a piece of 3/4" MDF for the bed. I have cut .25" 6061 T6 aluminum without issue. Very slight bit of chattering but I attributed that to incorrect feed speeds or spindle speed. The seller was very helpful when I had a few questions for him.

The one thing I noticed about it was the left rear (X0, Y24) corner is about .030" higher. I loosened the screws and tried to let it 'settle' but it made no difference. Not a big deal after I surface my bed. I have also had an issue with the very center of the bed sagging about .040". I started to build a vacuum table for it and have 3/4" MDF down on the frame and 1/2" MDF on top of that with the vacuum channels on the top of the 3/4" and 1.25" grid on top. I didn't notice if it had the sag with only the bottom piece. I notice it measuring the top piece. Haven't investigated much further but my plan was to buy a couple pieces of extrusion and angle brackets and run a couple of pieces across the center to add support there.

I primarily cut 3/4" wood making signs and 3D projects.

Based on what was said above about the Y rail flexing, do you think it is possible that is causing my perceived sag? I wouldn't think so if the bottom piece of 3/4 was surfaced.

Suggestions?

Other than that it has been a great machine. Mine is a 24x24 and I paid about $1700. Last I looked I think he was selling them for about $1200. Maybe that was without steppers or something but the description seemed to be the same.

[roundrocktom]

Dhay,

Added support will help.

With 3/4" MDF topped by 1/2" mdf vacuum... you probably are still getting some sag in the table.

For a rigid table, if you took 3/4" Baltic Birch Plywood, screwed in 2x4's, then topped with another 3/4" top. Screws, construction adhesive, and one very stout box framed table. Now top that with your 1/2" vacuum board. I just described 3/4" + 3.5" + 3/4" box table top with a 1/2 topper. 5.5" of space has just been used, which kills the Z height.

So if you rethink the box frame, sandwich the top and bottom around the aluminum rails. Cut some 2x4's down to match the aluminum thickness. So you still have a wood box, but with the aluminum rails going though it. This will give a very rigid platform. On a 4x 4 table, you'll have seven 4' long wood rails (perimeter, and three in the middle, mid-span between aluminum. Drill a 1" ventilation hole in the bottom side as a vent for each compartment.

Top that with MDF, surface the mdf, an you should have a fairly rigid stable table that remains level over time.

[DHay13]

Thanks for that. One problem is I only have 4.25" Z travel so your first idea is out. The other issue is my X ballscrew is only about 1.25" below my table so anything I run underneath has to be shorter than that. I can run them along theX axis on each side of the ballscrew and that will give me more room but anything running along the Y axis has to be shorter than 1.25" to clear the ballscrew.

I thought about .25" steel plate under my MDF but am trying to keep the table as low as I can to retain my Z travel. I was going to switch the top of my table to 3/4" also so I will have (2) pieces of 3/4" MDF to try to add rigidity.

Anything better than MDF that I could use that wouldn't be too costly? I haven't made any money with this yet and would have a hard time justifying spending $300 on it. Any other type of wood that might be better than MDF?

BTW-The frame is actually about 22" (Y) x 28" (X) inside the extrusion if that matters.

[gd.marsh]

From what I saw looking at the machine on flea bay .. I would say it should work sufficiently to cut wood /plastic /thin alum sheets .. But the unsupported Y rails will be an issue if you try to take heavy cuts even in some woods. Light cuts and/or slower feed rates should produce decent results.

As for the sag in the bed.. Adding a couple pieces of 1 X 1 X 3/16 angle running along each side of the leadscrew & solidly fixed at each end with bolts & brackets would do wonders to eliminate the sag. To save Z height I would use a single piece of good quality 3/4" particle board and bolt it down around the outside (after leveling the whole machine as well as possible) Then use the largest diameter tool you have, to surface the table (as much as your tool can reach) to get it flat to both X&Y axis. Take only enough off to make it flat & just use that as your spoil board. When it gets chewed up, replace it!
The angle stock, brackets, & PB can all be purchased at the 'Big Box Home Improvement' stores & shouldn't be too excessively painful price wise.

CNC machinery is a wonderful (Sometimes frustrating) world to step into. The learning curve can be steep & if you're not careful .. Expensive! But once you begin to 'get the hang of it' it's amazing what possibilities it opens up.

Now get busy enjoying your new machine!

[DHay13]

Sounds about like what I plan on doing. I have made about 10 signs, and about another 10 oops's! Just messed one up tonight. I have sold a couple so I have made a couple of bucks (less than $100). Still practicing and learning. I'm still looking for that niche but in the meantime I will continue making signs and carvings. Most of what I have done has been freebies, given as gifts.

[DHay13]

I just ordered the extrusion, brackets, and t-nuts to add the extra bracing. What are the opinions on which direction to run the added extrusion? I can run it along the X at a span of about 28" or along the Y at a span of about 23". Thoughts on which would be the better option? The longer span would add support along the weaker span but the longer braces would be less rigid than the shorter Y axis bracing.

Thoughts? Or am I over thinking this?

[cmadki4]

I just ordered the extrusion, brackets, and t-nuts to add the extra bracing. What are the opinions on which direction to run the added extrusion? I can run it along the X at a span of about 28" or along the Y at a span of about 23". Thoughts on which would be the better option? The longer span would add support along the weaker span but the longer braces would be less rigid than the shorter Y axis bracing.

Thoughts? Or am I over thinking this?

I think many of would like to see pics of your setup.

As far as bracing, it doesn't seem like it would make too much of a difference to run the additional braces along the X or Y. I would probably go with the 28" span and tie those together in the middle with short braces in between.

ANY UPDATES FROM OWNER CURRENTLY RUNNING THEIR SYSTEM? What are you cutting? How's it holding up? What have you had to modify, etc.?

[cmadki4]

Bump. Any updates from owners of these routers? More testimony would be greatly appreciated.

[cmadki4]

I think this thread has been abandoned.

[DHay13]

Sorry. Don't have anything else to add. Anyone else?

[roundrocktom]

I'd just keep building. You really won't know what you can cut until you try it.

It you stack two layers of 3/4" MDF on the base and just machine to top layer 1/4" to level everything... just realize that top layer is replaceable and get to work.

Someone was explaining I couldn't cut 3/4" aluminum plate on my machine, due to 100's of issues. Well I didn't tell the machine that, but with the correct bit removing 0.100" at a time, works nicely. To get a 3/4" deep cut trick is to zig zag so a 1/4" is making two passes to cut a 3/8" wide groove. This helps in giving the bit a chance to survive deep cuts. Only thing I recommend for 1" hole is to pocket mill it completely out when using a 1/4" bit.

Don't worry about naysayers, just build, and run it. A rigid machine can cut 0.100" 2024-T3 in a pass. Not rigid might be 0.030" a pass, in theory a bit has 1/3 the life since it is making three passes... but it is cutting!

I'd bolt solid 3/4" plywood to the legs for stability.

[wizard]

I'd just keep building. You really won't know what you can cut until you try it.

Experience can speak volumes here.

It you stack two layers of 3/4" MDF on the base and just machine to top layer 1/4" to level everything... just realize that top layer is replaceable and get to work.

An MDF mill would likely be stiffer than the machine referenced. This is my biggest concern about the machine, it really isn't built for maching aluminum.

Someone was explaining I couldn't cut 3/4" aluminum plate on my machine, due to 100's of issues. Well I didn't tell the machine that, but with the correct bit removing 0.100" at a time, works nicely.

Is your machine the same as this one? More importantly people have different expectations with respect to the finished product.

To get a 3/4" deep cut trick is to zig zag so a 1/4" is making two passes to cut a 3/8" wide groove. This helps in giving the bit a chance to survive deep cuts. Only thing I recommend for 1" hole is to pocket mill it completely out when using a 1/4" bit.

Don't worry about naysayers, just build, and run it. A rigid machine can cut 0.100" 2024-T3 in a pass. Not rigid might be 0.030" a pass, in theory a bit has 1/3 the life since it is making three passes... but it is cutting!

It isn't naysaying, it is trying to help someone approach a problem well informed.

I'd bolt solid 3/4" plywood to the legs for stability.

Which highlights what many have already said the machine isn't suitable out of the box. It amazes me that you tell somebody to go ahead and ignore the naysayers, go on about just doing it and then indicate in the last sentence that the machine isn't actually suitable.

[roundrocktom]

Wizard -

I made a mistake in saying "keep building" as it should have been "keep running your machine".

Builder has already cut .25" aluminum on it. 6061 is a little gummy, so since he was successful it already is working.

Adding 3/4" plywood to the sides is a good idea to help dampen vibration and add stability.

As to the 0.030" sag, not uncommon on any mdf bedded machine. Just toss another 3/4" layer on top and surface it. 1" wide surface tool, taking 0.010" at a time will level it nicely.

I was cutting some 0.0625" thick plastic, with 0.015" depth. Even with four layers of 3/4" MDF it seems to change with temperature and humidity. Need to add the Z-probe as I'm wasting too much time with cigarette papers!

[cmadki4]

Good to hear some experiences.

I've also gotten more feedback from Signal-Seeker on his experiences in regards to the capabilities of the machine variations when cutting aluminum (rails vs. unsupported round):

"Rail and carriage can be pushed harder. 20mm Round bearings have a load capacity of 1500lbs 25mm rail is 7000lbs. Router 10ipm spindle 30ipm spindle with flooding 50ipm on rail" ~ signal-seeker

I'm also considering some of the units offered by CNCConversionKit.com. They have a wide variety of machine variations and a good price. They're also using 2.36" x 2.36" extrusions for added rigidity.

I'm still weighing my options. I just sold my CNC plasma system, so I'm ready to transition into a router here real soon.

[automationtechinc]

pls check here for the cnc router

CNC Router, Stepper Motor, Servo Motor, Power Supply Automation Technology Inc

[DHay13]

I was happy with the job mine did cutting aluminum, other than the time it took. The piece was about 8"x3.5" .250 6061. I engraved a logo in the center, helixed 6 holes, and cut the outer profile. It took about 8 hours or so. I ran it at about 3ipm and .007 DOC. There was a very little chatter showing and there was a mark where the bit stopped at the end of the engrave. I know that could be fixed with ramping and the chatter marks could have probably been removed by taking a final pass at about .002 or so. I probably could have cut it deeper but didn't want to hurt anything. The fact that it was for a relative, it was free, and he was thrilled with the final product, meant it was good enough for me.

The first pic is the finished product. The second was after he painted it.