[Magnetboy]

Hello Everyone,

Let me begin by saying that I am new to hobby CNC. That being said, I am not green to machine tools and working in a machine shop environment, so I can follow along with most of you. I've read some posts here and have learned quite a lot from reading. I have also visited many of the websites that the members here refer to often, like g0704.com and CNCFusion.com. I do have a question or two though, and I am looking for recommendations.

My first question is, which milling machine do you recommend? I am considering 2 machines right now, the Seig X3 and its corporate variants, and the Grizzly G0704. I want to convert the mill to CNC eventually. I will consider other machines, but these 2 seem to have a good fan base and that speaks volumes by itself. At this point, I am leaning towards the G0704 and I am thinking several things at this stage:

1) I am interested in making small parts from aluminum, mostly 12 inches or less in size.

2) I want a machine that I can grow into, not one that I will be looking to replace as my skills and needs increase.

3) I believe in saving up my money and buying the better machine in the beginning, however, I don't need a full sized mill and don't have any plans to need one in the future.

My second question is, does anyone make a single purchase kit with all of the electronic components to run the mill? Electronics is an area that I lack knowledge in and the easier the better. I can handle the mechanical stuff, but I get a little lost when it comes to electronics. From prior reading, I already know to stay away from the Chinese stuff.

FYI....I saw this thread http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht...idea_what.html and have read most of it. Thanks to those who have posted info, and thank you to Hoss for posting all of the links he posted, especially the MIT videos. I'm sure I'll be contacting you soon.

[cjsamples]

What kind of price are you finding on the x3? Tried to google it and didn't come up with anyone seeling them in the US. Have a link? The Sieg site has a lot of info but no pricing.

[Magnetboy]

CJ,

If I am correct, this is Grizzly's version of the X3. It retails for $1595.00.

G0619 6" x 21" Mill / Drill

The G0704 retails for $1095.00.

G0704 Drill/Mill with Stand

The price difference is not a deal breaker for me in this case, and shipping is the same for either machine. It does seem that many people favor the G0704 though and I am curious why. Is it just the lower price, or is it a better mill for the money spent? I would even consider a higher priced machine if the purchase can be justified.

Ultimately, my goal is to convert the machine to CNC, however, my knowledge of the computer aspect of the conversion is definitely lacking. There seems to be a lot of information about converting the G0704 and this is another reason I'm considering that particular mill.

[109jb]

I remember reading a comparison about the X3 vs the G0704. From what I can remember it was claimed that the column on the G0704 was actually stiffer because the X3 column is open on the rear side. I don't remember for sure if the comparison wad made by someone with hands on experience with both, but I think that was the case.

[ChrisAttebery]

The Grizzly G0463 and G0619 are X3 variants.

I just went through all this myself. I had an RF-30 round column mill and sold it because I wanted a mill that I could buy mounts and ballscrews for and had a dovetail column. I looked at the above Grizzly mills, but I decided on the G0704. It seems to be built a little better and there are plans and kits available to convert it to CNC. Hoss has proven that it will take cuts I'd never think of doing in a production environment.

There are several companies that sell turn key controllers. I bought all the gear I needed from Automation Technologies and they sell turn key controllers. You'll save about $250 putting it together yourself though. On the flip side, I've spent about 4-5 hours putting mine together and I keep having to run to the electronics store to get little odds and ends.

Good luck,


Chris

[cjsamples]

Smaller work area on the X3 and a higher price. Motor looks to be about the same but 500 rpm slower on the x3.
The Z handle arrangement on the smaller mill might, not sure, but might be a little more work to cnc. Since it comes in at an angle on the base. Probably not even use that part by mounting the stepper elsewhere on the mill.
From the photos on the Grizzly site, looks like a few wires must go thru the column as a switch is mounted on the side of the x3 column.

Chris

[Magnetboy]

I remember reading a comparison about the X3 vs the G0704. From what I can remember it was claimed that the column on the G0704 was actually stiffer because the X3 column is open on the rear side. I don't remember for sure if the comparison wad made by someone with hands on experience with both, but I think that was the case.

I think I recall reading about a conversion recently where the column was open in the back and the owner filled it with epoxy granite. Now that you mention it, I think it was an X3. I really would prefer not to go through that much trouble if at all possible.

[Magnetboy]

The Grizzly G0463 and G0619 are X3 variants.

I just went through all this myself. I looked at the above Grizzly mills, but I decided on the G0704. It seems to be built a little better and there are plans and kits available to convert it to CNC.

The fact that there are plans and kits available is one of the major reasons that I am considering this mill. In fact, the more I read and the more I learn, the more it seems the G0704 is the way I should go.

There are several companies that sell turn key controllers. I bought all the gear I needed from Automation Technologies and they sell turn key controllers. You'll save about $250 putting it together yourself though. On the flip side, I've spent about 4-5 hours putting mine together and I keep having to run to the electronics store to get little odds and ends.

Thank you. I will look into their products. I prefer turn-key electronics at this point because plug and play is within my understanding until I learn more. I would pay the extra money to alleviate any potential hassles with the electronics.

[H500]

I remember reading a comparison about the X3 vs the G0704. From what I can remember it was claimed that the column on the G0704 was actually stiffer because the X3 column is open on the rear side. I don't remember for sure if the comparison wad made by someone with hands on experience with both, but I think that was the case.

Until someone is kind enough to measure the g0704 deflections when a measured load is applied using a fish scale (as I did with my sx3) I think this belief is questionable. The talk was that the g0704 has a closed column, so it's stiffer than the x3's open channel. But in actual fact, the g0704 is open in the front.

I am considering downsizing for mobility, but I'm concerned that I will be making a mistake.

[cjsamples]

It will have to have some kind of opening. It has metal on all sides at the top and bottom, I would call it a closed column. The photos I saw of the x3 looked to have no metal at all on the back side. Is this correct?
Square tubing with a slot in it has lost a little strength, but not much.

Chris

[amyers]

Until someone is kind enough to measure the g0704 deflections when a measured load is applied using a fish scale (as I did with my sx3) I think this belief is questionable. The talk was that the g0704 has a closed column, so it's stiffer than the x3's open channel. But in actual fact, the g0704 is open in the front.

I am considering downsizing for mobility, but I'm concerned that I will be making a mistake.

aren't you supposed to be doing a practical test of the x3's rigidity by repeating some of the g0704's milling videos that have been posted?

[109jb]

Yes the G0704 has a slot down the front where the dovetail is, but that area is also 1" thick.

I have a fish scale and as soon as I get my machine back together I will repeat that deflection test. I remember seeing it somewhere. If you know where it is, send or post a link so that I can repeat the test exactly. I should have my G0704 back together this weekend.

[691175002]

A more appropriate test of machine rigidity involves pulling on the head while pushing on the table.

Applying force only to the head skips two sets of dovetails/gibs, the saddle, screws, and bearings which are where a lot of rigidity is lost. The g0704 does have tapered gibs which is an advantage here.

IMO, making comparable measurements is virtually impossible since so many factors will affect the numbers.


I think the following two pictures make a fairly convincing argument on their own.

[arizonavideo]

The SX3 price and size put it more in the same class as the Weiss 30/ BF30 / PM-30LV.

I have both the G0704 and the Weiss30 and the 30 is a much bigger machine. It's hard to tell from the photos but the Weiss 30 is almost 500 pounds. The fit and finish is great and every part is larger than the 704. The only real weak point of the 704 is the small motor, so if you want to go a bit bigger the Weiss 30 is one of the bet benchtops mills out their.

Their had been some conversions and everyone has liked them.

This is a re seller in the USA.

http://www.machinetoolonline.com/images/PM-30MVSide.jpg

I have not directly compared it to to a SX3 so I can comment on that but it has larger table. My table is beautiful and flat.

[H500]

Square tubing with a slot in it has lost a little strength, but not much.
Chris

That's true for bending, but I believe it will substantially weaken it in torsion.

[H500]

aren't you supposed to be doing a practical test of the x3's rigidity by repeating some of the g0704's milling videos that have been posted?

Perhaps you can do it on your machine?

[H500]

I have a fish scale and as soon as I get my machine back together I will repeat that deflection test. I remember seeing it somewhere. If you know where it is, send or post a link so that I can repeat the test exactly. I should have my G0704 back together this weekend.

Here's the thread.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht...ml#post1184252

I can also do measurements using your specs if you prefer, as long as the force isn't too high for me to apply.

[amyers]

Perhaps you can do it on your machine?

I don't have an x3, you do. we all can see what an 0704 can do.

[H500]

Do it on your 0704. Every setup is different.

[amyers]

no can do, it's in pieces. working on cncing it and other mods. you can search ebay if you'd like to see other setups.