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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    103

    fanuc 6m dead

    She's an old gal, but is on a dedicated job that makes money.

    Here goes,

    Power company kills the power to replace a transformer.
    Show for work and the machine is down, nothing nada out of the input unit.
    I think easy deal, find one on ebay for 44 bucks.

    Three days later got it install it, have power out of the input unit now.
    The machine is still dead however.
    Start checking votages on the main pcbs test points, all good same with
    the stabilizer unit. Scratch my head and in my pea brain everything points to the main pcb.

    Find a used one "DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!!" and order the darn thing.
    Installed it today, no joy.

    Everything is still dead, no video, no jog ability, nothing nada.

    Any ideas?
    "those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" Benjamin Franklin

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    297
    There are two LEDS in your input unit. One is red and the ohter is green. Red= Not good. You said you had voltage in the PSU, that is 5+VDC and +24VDC, correct? but do you see a red led lit up in the input unit? If so, then your PSU is bad.
    Regards
    Alex

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    103
    Green on the input unit, it supplies power to the stabilizer unit which has good output voltage. Checked the power on the main pcb have the 5 volts 24 etc all within 5%.
    "those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" Benjamin Franklin

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    24216
    Did the power company replace the supply transformer and inadvertently swap the phase rotation?
    On a 6 it has to be correct for the machine to power up.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    640
    heres my 2 cents:
    first off - does the contactor on the input unit click on?

    if not, might just be a coincidence with a bad normally closed contact in your 'off' button...dunno why but the last 2 years weve had a bunch of power off contacts and estop contacts fail to reclose after pressing the buttons. check ohms across off/estop contacts- brown fuji blocks are NC, black are NO. if the off button checks open, peck on it a dozen times, it should reclose till next time to fix the contacts, take the block off, screwes out, pull the threaded part out, scrape off the silver pads, reassemble- only takes a minute to clean them up.

    if still not clicking on, on the input units little pcb are terminals eof/eon/com, also spade connectors on top of the board. check that eof/com show no voltage(24volt, dont recall if ac or dc in the old input units) and when you press 'on' voltage from eon/com should also drop to zero... if so it should click on.

    if it clicks on then off real quick, and the red LED Alex mentioned turns on, its 99% of the time due to 24 volt short somewhere in the machine- but note, it can be a 5 or 15 short, but thats a pretty rare thing...

    check ohms from 5 v to ground on the input unit terminal strip, heres one thing to check first: theres a little 1n914 diode next to the 3 axis reed relays (gold/metal blocks), check them for shorts...Ive fixed a half dozen 5 v shorts by swapping that one of those 10 cent diodes across the reed coil- dunno why they fail, but they do.

    a 15v short Ive never ran into still...

    check ohms from 24 to ground, if its low, start pulling plugs off the i/o board till it drops...if it drops, do a quick powerup to see if it tries to boot- dont release estop though with plugs undone. check ohms to ground on machine terminal strips- use a fluke or other good dmm capable of reading to .01 ohm, look for the lowest reading on the terminals- pull that wire, see if they all clear up (do this as overtravels/decels are NC contacts, if ones shorted, they all are- but one will have a lower ohm reading because of proximity/wire length)


    if it didnt drop pulling i/o plugs, unplug the crt, if it still dont drop, unplug the i/o board from the big gold box it plugs onto- if that drops it, pull the lid off, make sure no chips in the wirewrap pins.

    report back with results if its still down
    Tim

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    103
    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    Did the power company replace the supply transformer and inadvertently swap the phase rotation?
    On a 6 it has to be correct for the machine to power up.
    Al.
    That sir is a very good possibility, I had no clue to that fact.

    Should I swap legs and see what happens? If so which?

    You da man.
    "those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" Benjamin Franklin

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    103
    Al,

    How does phase rotation affect the 6 control?

    This baffels me a bit.

    20 years machinist/avionics tech
    just dont get it, all of our other machines are kosher.

    Dean
    "those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" Benjamin Franklin

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    175

    Fanuc 6M

    It seems to effect the drives when phase rotation is incorrect, but also will be noted as a problem on any three phase motor that is incorporated into the machine, as it will be rotating in reverse. (coolant pump, lub pump etc.)

    To switch phase, just switch any two of the input wires .

    I'm not sure by your last post if you are saying that changing the phases ,repaired the mill, but I am still question why the monitor was not turning on as phase rotation, should not cause a problem with the monitor.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    24216
    Quote Originally Posted by riverrat View Post
    Al,

    How does phase rotation affect the 6 control?

    This baffels me a bit.
    The drives are 3phase full wave SCR and if the phase rotation is incorrect they do not like it, Fanuc 6 manual says to use a rotation meter before hooking up.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    640
    shoot, i type too slow, a couple responses before I got done- sorry I was way off anyways...

    I never thought about the old 6045 drives(black cap motors) being rotation sensitive, Al's the man
    I had always thought if the rotation was wrong they would jump/trip fuses out? only 6045s we had were on a older 5t, as our 6s were 6_B-2 versions with yellow caps, rotation didnt matter on those...the ones in my garage run on 110 single thase
    Tim

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    640
    Quote Originally Posted by John Bennett View Post
    I am still question why the monitor was not turning on as phase rotation, should not cause a problem with the monitor.
    I was wondering the same, but once saw a mitsui-seiki with a rotation sensing relay tied into the input unit- think it was to prevent cambox damage if backwards, but maybe some OEMs added them to prevent drive damage too

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    103
    checked phase rotation with a rotation meter, it says they are good.
    machine is still down.
    "those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" Benjamin Franklin

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    297
    Power off the machine.
    Remove the CCX2 cable connector
    from the CRT / PUNCHER PCB.
    Turn on the machine:
    Does the CRT screen show bright
    with horizontal green lines?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    103
    It has an aftermarket lcd, reads no signal.

    No leds on the main pcp are lit, the top led on the puncher pcb is not lit.
    "those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" Benjamin Franklin

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    297
    Do you have the main pcb part number?
    If it is A16B-0007-0010 it has many chips in it. You said you replaced the main pcb that´s why I am asking.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    103
    A16B-1000-0030

    All of the voltages on the boards test points are present.
    "those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" Benjamin Franklin

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    297
    The CRTC PUNCHER PCb is A20B-0008-0430.Try to remove the CCX2 cable connector If this pcb is not sending the video signal then the LCD should be blank (only light, should be lit).

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    103
    Quote Originally Posted by alexfanuc View Post
    The CRTC PUNCHER PCb is A20B-0008-0430.Try to remove the CCX2 cable connector If this pcb is not sending the video signal then the LCD should be blank (only light, should be lit).
    I did and it is blank.
    "those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" Benjamin Franklin

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    297
    The CRT / Puncher PCB may be
    defective. Do you have a spare one?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    103
    Quote Originally Posted by alexfanuc View Post
    The CRT / Puncher PCB may be
    defective. Do you have a spare one?
    Nope,

    It's not just video, I can't jog the axis or home the machine.
    How can I isolate this problem without throwing another card at it?
    "those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither" Benjamin Franklin

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