[spookyweld]

I'm considering a Grizzly mill in order to learn some basic skills. Fortunately, the Grizzly showroom is located only about an hour away from my home in WA state. Is this brand a decent value for the money spent? Any feedback would be most welcome.

[Rally]

Impossible to answer that question without knowing what it is you are trying to do.
Maybe Trade school would be a better investment. You should be able to take single classes to suite your interests.

[underthetire]

They have decent stuff, and some not so decent stuff. Can you save money buying somewhere else, sure. But Grizzly is outstanding on customer service. My dads new gunsmith lathe from Grizzly is actually really nice, but the first motor didn't even make it through break in, second motor vibrated like crazy, and the 3rd motor was ok. No problems from Grizzly sending new motors, without question sent them out as soon as they could.

[mcarvey]

I wanted to learn machining, and got a G1007 round column mill/drill and a G4003 lathe 10 years ago, knowing absolutely nothing about machining at the time. They have served me quite well over the years, and haven't had any major problems (power switches broke, lathe gear got stuck for a year, etc) I don't regret my purchasing decision one bit. (although I wouldn't recommend getting a round column mill) You do get what you pay for though. If you are looking for the most bang for your buck get a used bridgeport if you have space for it.
Learning how machine on your own is slow going. Be prepared to make a LOT of mistakes. Taking a 20 hour night class is money well spent. CNCZone has been a wealth of information- so read, research, and ask questions!

Good Luck!

-Matt

[spookyweld]

I've checked out the school possibilities. Unfortunatly, there are only two tech colleges in my area, both are about 80 miles away, daytime classes only, 2-year programs and very high tuiton costs. I've been in the metal fabrication/welding trade for several years now and can see that it's time to move forward. Self-learning seems the best option. Enter the Grizzly mill. A Bridgeport would be great if I had the space for it. Also, the thought of a factory warranty/service policy appeals to me. Thanks for all replys.

[wizard]

I'm considering a Grizzly mill in order to learn some basic skills.

If you have zero back ground in machining spending a few hours at a local tech school is money well spent. The reality is getting into machining is expensive because you have to spend as much money on tooling and fixturing as you do on the entry level mills. Plus there is a need for support machinery such as a bench grinder or deburring machine.

Also what is your goal for learning these skills? Is it for a business, hobby or something a bit different?

Fortunately, the Grizzly showroom is located only about an hour away from my home in WA state.

This is a good thing as the local Grizzly store is on the other side of the state, plus a few miles, for me. It pays to visit the store to review a display machine before buying if you are not completely familiar with the machine. Some of the lower end hardware they sell leaves a lot to be desired.

For example I went to the Griz store a few years ago to buy a drill press. The original goal was to get a lower end machine suitable for wood and metal working tasks. The problem was the lower end machines did not impress me at all! The spindles and quils wobbled excessively which is something you wouldn't see in a picture in a catalog. So I ended up spending a few extra bucks on a larger drill press that was better constructed.

The point here is that the quality of the hardware Griz sells varies widely especially with the lower end machines. If you follow the threads here in the bench top forum you will see some common themes for the different models. Some have terrible results with respect to motors for example.

Is this brand a decent value for the money spent?

The answer here is highly variable but in general I would say yes. Some refer to the low end machines as kits. That is probably an accurate portrayal of the hardware, every machine they have needs a little work to get serviceable operation from it. In part this is the result of the low cost nature of the equipment. Objectively though you are getting a lot of hardware for the money even if you need to add your own TLC. No body really comes close to the Chinese machines in price, but that cheapness is due to minimal effort put into the machines in the first place.

So to answer your question the machines are very good value for the money spent. That is due in part to the fact that producing a machine to higher quality standards would would lead to significantly higher prices. In the end you do get a lot for the money laid out. The problem is everyone of these machines has a problem or two that you will become aware of as you read the forums in detail.

Any feedback would be most welcome.

Here are a few important concepts to acknowledge. There are a large number of factories in China producing these hobby machines. In the end though Griz buys from the same manufactures as everybody else. It has been suggested to buy from the cheapest vendor out there, but really that is up to you. Some resellers do have special runs or designs but for the most part Griz sells the generic machine painted green.

I hope you realize that I'm talking about the hobby level machines here. Some of the Chinese machinery can actually be pretty good, but you won't be paying bargain basement prices for these machines. It comes back to that value for money spent.

At this point I own a Griz band saw, small disc/belt sander and a drill press. These have been decent machines but like I said in the case of the drill press I went up scale in the catalog to get a decent machine. In the case of the belt sander I really believe they charged more than it was worth. Other machinery I own comes from Jet, Harbor Freight, Blador and others including used equipment. All in all the I'd call the Griz equipment just OK.

That is one point of reference. I know of one guy locally that outfitted an entire woodworking shop with Griz machinery and thinks the stuff is the best thing since sliced bread. Some of that positivity might be do to careful shopping, the reality is Griz does have some pretty good machinery to choose from. Further it is far easier to produce good wood working equipment with a given amount of iron that it is to build metal working equipment.

[Rally]

I've checked out the school possibilities. Unfortunatly, there are only two tech colleges in my area, both are about 80 miles away, daytime classes only, 2-year programs and very high tuiton costs. I've been in the metal fabrication/welding trade for several years now and can see that it's time to move forward. Self-learning seems the best option. Enter the Grizzly mill. A Bridgeport would be great if I had the space for it. Also, the thought of a factory warranty/service policy appeals to me. Thanks for all replys.

Personally I do not see how buying a machine tool will teach much of anything.
Tinkering at home will never be the same as attending some type of school or simply doing a apprenticeship in an actual machine shop.

[arizonavideo]

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[Analias]

Personally I do not see how buying a machine tool will teach much of anything.
Tinkering at home will never be the same as attending some type of school or simply doing a apprenticeship in an actual machine shop.

Rally, I hope you are wrong on this point. I have bought and built my first CNC machine, purchased a second converted CNC mill, and hope to build a CNC lathe. All in the hope to learn the skills to be a machinist, at least a hobbyist machinist. I too am in a situation where daytime classes at the local tech school are not an option, and I have to teach myself.

Although, I know better than to listen to all naysayers. I am a completely self taught software developer with twenty plus years. I have very little schooling (the first year of college). Thankfully I am in a field where demonstrated skills speak louder than degrees or certifications, and my paycheck is the best form of certification of skills.

Strictly speaking, your statement is true. Tinkering at home is _NEVER_ (or _NOT_) the same as attending some type of professional training. But, it is a good start.

A desire to learn, ask questions, increase your skills, and to pursue your trade is the most important requirement. Investing in yourself, wither it be in tooling, studying, books, etc.; is never a waste. If pursued diligently, can lead to certifications and job opportunities.

[spookyweld]

Several years ago, I began studying TIG welding by reading everything I could find on the subject. Next, I bought an entry-level Miller welder and started practicing on both steel and aluminum. There was definitly a learning curve involved but I persisted and became good enough to land full time employment. This in turn provided still more experience and skill building. So I know that with sincere interest and determination, it is possible to achieve things without institutional education. However, if it were practical for me to attend some classes then I certainly would.

[spookyweld]

Wizard asks what are my goals for entering the machining trade, along with some very insightful points specific to the Grizzly brand. For a few years now, I've been considering a re-direction of my career in metal fab/welding. My experiences in this trade have provided a decent living (most of the time), along with a solid foundation of knowledge of fabrication and building stuff in general. However, my nature is that of a perfectionist and that type of approach is often at odds with the "get it out the door now" attitude displayed by most employers in this type of work.
What to do? Mabye become a machinist of sorts. After all, I have a bit of time with both lathes and mills in incidential situations along the way and have done plenty of reading on the subject as well. Also the thought of becoming an "old" welder guy is uncomfortable for me. At this point it's not too late to make some changes.
The other day I made the trip to the Grizzly showroom to see and touch the goods. A nice place, similar to a well stocked gun or music shop with lots of cool equipment and smaller bits in glass display cases. I would recomend a visit to any tool lover.

[wizard]

Wizard asks what are my goals for entering the machining trade, along with some very insightful points specific to the Grizzly brand.

I'm not sure if my response sounded a little to negative with respect to Grizzly's hardware. I do believe it is advisable to shop carefully there.

For a few years now, I've been considering a re-direction of my career in metal fab/welding. My experiences in this trade have provided a decent living (most of the time), along with a solid foundation of knowledge of fabrication and building stuff in general. However, my nature is that of a perfectionist and that type of approach is often at odds with the "get it out the door now" attitude displayed by most employers in this type of work.

Many jobs in the machining industry aren't much different with respect to a rushed environment. You will have to shop around for a shop that is more traditional in that respect.

What to do? Mabye become a machinist of sorts. After all, I have a bit of time with both lathes and mills in incidential situations along the way and have done plenty of reading on the subject as well. Also the thought of becoming an "old" welder guy is uncomfortable for me. At this point it's not too late to make some changes.

Change is sometimes good.

I'm not sure what makes you uncomfortable about becoming an old welder, however if it is related to the physical demand and the impact on guys that work in it then realize some machining jobs are pretty demanding. I know some guys that work in a shop machining turbine machinery and other extremely large components, every one of them seems to have a bad back.

The other day I made the trip to the Grizzly showroom to see and touch the goods. A nice place, similar to a well stocked gun or music shop with lots of cool equipment and smaller bits in glass display cases. I would recomend a visit to any tool lover.

Nice isn't it? Unfortunately the stuff that really impresses me at the Grizzly store is way to expensive or just to damn heavy at the moment.

In any event back to the discussion at hand. I think you will find that most shops will require formal training before they will offer the better positions. Your best bet might be to look for a shop that is willing to support formal apprentice training if you can find such a shop.

The thing is this, learning at home is perfectly OK for personal fulfillment. The problem is getting an employer to accept the experience when they are looking for new employees.

[Rally]

Rally, I hope you are wrong on this point. I have bought and built my first CNC machine, purchased a second converted CNC mill, and hope to build a CNC lathe. All in the hope to learn the skills to be a machinist, at least a hobbyist machinist. I too am in a situation where daytime classes at the local tech school are not an option, and I have to teach myself.

Although, I know better than to listen to all naysayers. I am a completely self taught software developer with twenty plus years. I have very little schooling (the first year of college). Thankfully I am in a field where demonstrated skills speak louder than degrees or certifications, and my paycheck is the best form of certification of skills.

Strictly speaking, your statement is true. Tinkering at home is _NEVER_ (or _NOT_) the same as attending some type of professional training. But, it is a good start.

A desire to learn, ask questions, increase your skills, and to pursue your trade is the most important requirement. Investing in yourself, wither it be in tooling, studying, books, etc.; is never a waste. If pursued diligently, can lead to certifications and job opportunities.

Nothing wrong with learning at home. I was not trying to imply that. I also learned Software development and been doing it for a long time. But guess what, buying a CNC Mill will never make you a machinist. By the time you learn at home you could have done some good in a real shop. Most all of our Apprentices start as broom pushers.

[bozidar22]

What happened to just reading some books. I found alot of good basic information from old machining books from the 1900's to the 1960's.

[spookyweld]

Yes, I read everything that I can find. Have even spent some money on a few from Amazon. That is a perfectly valid form of learning. However, book learning will not qualify as practical experience when it comes down to filling out an application for a job. Around my area employers are looking for people with a minimum of 2-3 years in the trade.
A catch-22 for sure. I think it's time to put the academic learning to use.

[bozidar22]

sorry, I thought that you interested in home hobby machining.

For a job some schooling is a must or find a shop that is willing to do some
training.

May be start out measuring or deburing parts to get you foot in the door.