[twp]

There are so many different printers popping up each month... just wondering who is leading the pack in terms of reliability, speed, accuracy, etc.?

I am not interested in a toy that needs constant tinkering with.. I want something that can be used in a professional small engineering firm setting... I just don't see why the Stratasys machines are like 10x or more the price of these 'hobby-level' machines?

is soluable support and heated build chamber really that much more expensive to warrant the Stratasys price?

[gtxkid]

I just finished reading the magazine called MAKE
They did a buyer guide on them.
I learned i need to wait just a little bit for the dust to settle.

3D Printer Filament Buyer's Guide / ProtoParadigm Blog

Reprap development and further adventures in DIY 3D printing: Indestructamendel - Polycarbonate 3D Printing with Prusa Mendel

[Benonymous]

I have recently purchased a Leapfrog Creatr with dual extruders.

Website

I keep meaning to shoot some decent photos of the machine but so far it's impressed me with it's build quality and features. It's also got one of the largest build areas of any FDM printer out there.

The unit is constructed from a combination of "T slot" and sheet aluminium and is very sturdy compared to RepRap an Makerbot style machines.

I'm still getting used to 3D printing in general, being a complete noob. I have turned out some quite decent stuff so far and my results are improving with each tweak.

[dshay76]

They have a patent infringement suit but for detail you cannot beat Formlabs unit.

Otherwise an Ultimaker is extremely competitive at speed and level of detail for regular extrusion methods.

[bonmotwang]

I am going to spend $3000 for a 3D printer for my work. Not expecting to spend too much time tweaking it (have put way too much time on CNC).
Is makerbot 2X going to do my job?
Actually I have put an order through, but cancelled it after I read too many negative feedback a from the google group.
Just need some guidances and confident to put the money down.
Thanks.

[bonmotwang]

I have recently purchased a Leapfrog Creatr with dual extruders.

Website

I keep meaning to shoot some decent photos of the machine but so far it's impressed me with it's build quality and features. It's also got one of the largest build areas of any FDM printer out there.

The unit is constructed from a combination of "T slot" and sheet aluminium and is very sturdy compared to RepRap an Makerbot style machines.

I'm still getting used to 3D printing in general, being a complete noob. I have turned out some quite decent stuff so far and my results are improving with each tweak.

Hey it does look much much solid than an makerbot. Have you thought about buying a makerbot?
Interesting to see your update on comments of course and parts.

[gtxkid]

The second buyer guide is out by MAKE.
I would buy an ultimaker.
You do not want one with proprietary material.
You want to buy material for it from several sorce's.
I do not even know if i am spelling it corect, sorry.

[paullubbock]

I bought the Makerbot Replicator 2, have had it since late Feb. Yes, Makerbot support is pretty bad, but there are some pretty good how to's and suppot groups on the net not affiliated with Makerbot. I have had them ship me a new platen because the old one seems to be warped and the printer had a hard time laying filament evenly on larger objects. It also developed a problem extruding after only 2 weeks but I got that cleared out. The plus of the Replicator 2, it is fast, it is quiet, it is accurate and high resolution. The PLA used is cheap, lasts a long time and does not smell. It is also fairly cheap overall compared to some other models for what it is. The bad, you are going to have to learn to tweak and since 3D consumer printing is more or less in it's infancy that is likely something you will have to deal with with ALL 3D printers. The Makerbot Replicator 2 is a cross between a tinker upgradeable product and part consumer product. It isn't meant to be an appliance.

[tjb1]

Ultimaker.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[gtxkid]

Has anyone bought one since this was started.
If so what would you recommend for today.
Ultimaker 2 looks good but i have been told you cand build a better one for less than half that price.
Any recommendations

[MatthewBasaraba]

There are so many different printers popping up each month... just wondering who is leading the pack in terms of reliability, speed, accuracy, etc.?

I am not interested in a toy that needs constant tinkering with.. I want something that can be used in a professional small engineering firm setting... I just don't see why the Stratasys machines are like 10x or more the price of these 'hobby-level' machines?

is soluable support and heated build chamber really that much more expensive to warrant the Stratasys price?

Difference you get into is the material used. The Hobby level extrude heated plastic ABS/PLA filament and stack those melted levels on top of each other. The pro machines use a different material that is more powder and adhesive which is much stronger and more accurate.

Biggest draw back to the hobby printers is the size and quality of the components. I bought a FlashForge which is about the same as the Makerbot and Ultimaker. The build envelope is about 9"x6"x6". The support arms for the build table are plastic and warp from heat. The drive shafts run in nylon bushings. To get into a machine that offers a bigger envelope, the Cubix3 offers 10"x10"x10" for around $4000.

Unless dual extruders are extremely needed I would stick with a single. The are on the same Z axis and if they are just slightly off from each other it causes huge issues.

The build plates/leveling bolts are mounted to luan wood which is flimsy and inaccurate.

I am a programming/design engineer for an Aerospace R & D facility and with the help of an electrical engineer and machinist have started a new breed of printer that is actually made out of quality components with a build envelope of 18"x18"x18" for our first model with plans on a 24"x24"x24" and will cost little more than the 10 cubed above.

[gtxkid]

Here is what i came up with so far.
I am still undecided so far.

The new Ultimaker 2 looks real good.
Reviews are also good all the way around.

Makerbot replicator 2 eight weeks or more for delivery.

TEST THE 3D PRINTER if possible.
My cost is 600 to 1800 Still undecided 800 to 1200
Look at maximum amount of deviation .2 not so good WOW .04 great
size of the objects
Detail Resolution (Look At what it has printed)
Speed
Resolution is more important to me
Heated Platform you kinda need i would say.
Print PLA and ABS polycarbonite would be nice option
WOW Printing cost vary from one machine to anouther 3.80 to .08 cents for a smart phone case.
Duel Extruder Do i need it ????
Wi-Fi connection would be nice but not needed
Touchscreen is a nice option
Help & Support
online forum
email address
telephone support
Want a variety of good cost filament one pound 1.75 for 17.00 ?

[3D Accuracy]

Interesting thoughts here, I'd like to add my 2 cents.

After months of research comparing everything from low cost hobby 3D Printers to high end Production 3D Printers, I decided to purchase a Stratasys Production grade 3D Printer for several reasons.

- Stratasys has been making FDM 3D Printers far longer than anyone else and they are much better at it. The quality of the machines and the parts they make speak for themselves.

- Hobby 3D Printers are just that, "hobby" 3D Printers. If you want to 3D Print figurines of Yoda, the Eiffel Tower or Starwars vehicles that's one thing. If you want to 3D Print professional quality parts for end use production, sales presentations or trade show displays that's a completely different thing. It's a matter of what you need to do with a 3D Printer. Don't fool yourself that a hobby 3D Printer is going to give you Production 3D Printer quality, it won't. I spoke to a salesman who sells CubeX machines and he was honest enough to tell me that even though the CubeX is a good 3D Printer it can't match the quality of a Production 3D Printer and he would never recommend someone purchase it with the intention of selling the 3D Printed parts to outside customers.

- Open hobby 3D Printers are a health hazard. There have been several articles written about open sided hobby 3D Printers emitting nano size particles of plastic into the environment during use which get into your lungs even if you wear a dust mask. I for one am not interested in breathing pla, abs or any other plastic. You have to ask yourself "do I really want my wife and kids breathing this stuff if I bring a hobby 3D Printer into my house?".

- Open hobby 3D Printers also find it more difficult to print ABS because a change in temperature from a draft can affect the build quality of the part. Stratasys machines are enclosed with temperature controlled chambers, hence better build quality. I've read several hobby 3D Printing blogs and many users constantly complain about the difficulties in making good parts. I have never had a problem 3D Printing a part in my Stratasys machine.

- Stratasys software is more sophisticated and builds can be customized as needed.

- If you want to 3D Print complex models then you'll need a 3D Printer that has support material. As an example, try to 3D Print something like an Xbox enclosure on a hobby machine without support material. You'll understand what I'm talking about.

- I am not aware of any professional 3D Printing Service Bureau who uses a hobby 3D Printer in their facility.

I see that Hobby 3D Printers have become very popular due to the price point of obtaining one, but I have a feeling that we're going to see a lot of these hobby 3D Printers being sold as used 3D Printers when owners realize their limitations. If you need good quality parts for more professional purposes but can't afford to purchase a professional Production 3D Printer I think you're far better off using a service bureau to 3D Print models for you than purchasing a hobby 3D Printer. Just my opinion.

Have a terrific day!
Robert
3D Accuracy
3D ACCURACY

[gtxkid]

Here is something interesting and new for printer. HYREL 3D: Professional, Industrial-grade, Out-of-the-Box ready, Highly Reliable, High-Value 3D Printer.

[3D Accuracy]

Good evening gtxkid,

Interesting 3D Printer but it's still for hobby use for 3D Printing figurines, vases like in the video on their website and things like that. It wouldn't be able to 3D Print housings or enclosures for something like an Xbox.

3D Printing a solid chunk of plastic in my opinion is not very challenging. Start putting holes and openings into the side walls of a part or provisions for telescoping shut-offs on an injection molded part and let's see what it can do.

I have three parts sitting on my desk that were 3D Printed but this machine would not have been able to make them.

Here again it's really important to understand what a 3D Printer is capable of doing to know whether or not it will fulfill your needs.

Have a terrific evening!
Robert
3D Accuracy
3D ACCURACY

[3D Accuracy]

Difference you get into is the material used. The Hobby level extrude heated plastic ABS/PLA filament and stack those melted levels on top of each other. The pro machines use a different material that is more powder and adhesive which is much stronger and more accurate.

Biggest draw back to the hobby printers is the size and quality of the components. I bought a FlashForge which is about the same as the Makerbot and Ultimaker. The build envelope is about 9"x6"x6". The support arms for the build table are plastic and warp from heat. The drive shafts run in nylon bushings. To get into a machine that offers a bigger envelope, the Cubix3 offers 10"x10"x10" for around $4000.

Unless dual extruders are extremely needed I would stick with a single. The are on the same Z axis and if they are just slightly off from each other it causes huge issues.

The build plates/leveling bolts are mounted to luan wood which is flimsy and inaccurate.

I am a programming/design engineer for an Aerospace R & D facility and with the help of an electrical engineer and machinist have started a new breed of printer that is actually made out of quality components with a build envelope of 18"x18"x18" for our first model with plans on a 24"x24"x24" and will cost little more than the 10 cubed above.

Good morning Matthew,

I'm curious about the large build envelope 3D Printers you're planning to make. Will they be "hobby" machines or are you looking to make production quality machines along the lines of an expensive Stratasys 3D Printer?

Please keep me informed about your 3D Printers development. Depending on what you make, I may be your first customer to purchase one.

Have a terrific day!
Robert
3D Accuracy
3D ACCURACY

[nubz69]

3d Accuracy it sounds like the biggest issue you have between "hobby" and "industrial" 3d printers is the build volume. Focusing only on FDM printer, I have seen prints from both and a well tuned "hobby" machine can print just as good as an industrial machine, given the operator knows how to use it and it is setup well. If we are talking about SLS or other additive manufacturing methods then you are right that the "hobby" group has not yet caught up just yet.

-It is not hard to setup ventilation for a "hobby" machine, it just isn't built into the system
-ABS is difficult but once you setup your machine correctly it is possible to work with. You can also build a chamber to put your printer in to minimize drafts.
-All hobby printers can print with support and if you have a dual extruder you can use something like HIPS as a disolvable support material for easy removal
-The 3d printer experience uses both "Hobby" and "industrial" printers to print for their customers. There are a few other smaller companies that do this as well.
-Open source software is quickly catching up and it could be argued, as far as slicers are concerned, are already there.

I will say that a lot of the cheaper printers border on toys, rather then being real machines. Consumers, however, realize that this is new tech and a lot of them are buying them to be used for fun. A 3D Systems or Stratsys may make a nicer print but for the price of one machine you can buy 8-10 higher end open source printers and a lot of filament. You might want to take a closer look at Seemecnc's Rostock Max and Orion as well as the Mendelmax 2.0 printers. Machines like these are able to print very high quality prints with lots of holes. We are reaching a point where the only difference between a "hobby" FDM and "industrial" fdm machine is how much they cost and their respective build volumes. I am curious to see what happens when quality is exactly at parity, something that I think will happen by the end of 2014.

[awerby]

The "hobby group" is just waiting for certain key patents on the SLS (Selective Laser Sintering) 3D printing process to expire, which they are set to do early next year. At that point we should see a rash of inexpensive SLS machines hitting the pro-sumer market, just as this current wave of hot-end extruder machines did a few years back.

That's a good tip on the HIPS (High Impact Polystyrene) filament as support material. Have you actually tried it? Was the software able to add it as needed, so that overhangs and arch-overs worked smoothly? Did it dissolve easily without damage to the main material? Even with PLA? The availability of soluble support material has been one of the big selling points of industrial FDM printers over their consumer-level cousins (as well as finer laminations, more reliable filament feeding and larger build volumes). If the HIPS really works, that's one step closer to the convergence you predict.

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

[nubz69]

I have not tried it myself but here is a video of someone who has. Limonene doesn't affect PLA as far as I know.

I can print at .1mm layers no problem with my "hobby" printer, I haven't tried .05mm but it might be possible. I plan on being able to print at .05mm reliably with the printer I am working on right now. Not that I plan on doing that very often.

There are 2 areas that "industrial" printers still really lead. The first is their enclosed, temp controlled environment that they have patented. I am not sure how enforceable that is but it seems nobody wants to go head to head with them on it, even though it's just an oven. The second is their software, open source is catching up but it has a way to go. It could be argued that they have larger build volumes but that is only true as you really step up in printers. A lot of people into open source printers have not tried to go larger, usually do to the much higher costs to do so.

[tjb1]

Interesting thoughts here, I'd like to add my 2 cents.

After months of research comparing everything from low cost hobby 3D Printers to high end Production 3D Printers, I decided to purchase a Stratasys Production grade 3D Printer for several reasons.

- Stratasys has been making FDM 3D Printers far longer than anyone else and they are much better at it. The quality of the machines and the parts they make speak for themselves.

- Hobby 3D Printers are just that, "hobby" 3D Printers. If you want to 3D Print figurines of Yoda, the Eiffel Tower or Starwars vehicles that's one thing. If you want to 3D Print professional quality parts for end use production, sales presentations or trade show displays that's a completely different thing. It's a matter of what you need to do with a 3D Printer. Don't fool yourself that a hobby 3D Printer is going to give you Production 3D Printer quality, it won't. I spoke to a salesman who sells CubeX machines and he was honest enough to tell me that even though the CubeX is a good 3D Printer it can't match the quality of a Production 3D Printer and he would never recommend someone purchase it with the intention of selling the 3D Printed parts to outside customers.

- Open hobby 3D Printers are a health hazard. There have been several articles written about open sided hobby 3D Printers emitting nano size particles of plastic into the environment during use which get into your lungs even if you wear a dust mask. I for one am not interested in breathing pla, abs or any other plastic. You have to ask yourself "do I really want my wife and kids breathing this stuff if I bring a hobby 3D Printer into my house?".

- Open hobby 3D Printers also find it more difficult to print ABS because a change in temperature from a draft can affect the build quality of the part. Stratasys machines are enclosed with temperature controlled chambers, hence better build quality. I've read several hobby 3D Printing blogs and many users constantly complain about the difficulties in making good parts. I have never had a problem 3D Printing a part in my Stratasys machine.

- Stratasys software is more sophisticated and builds can be customized as needed.

- If you want to 3D Print complex models then you'll need a 3D Printer that has support material. As an example, try to 3D Print something like an Xbox enclosure on a hobby machine without support material. You'll understand what I'm talking about.

- I am not aware of any professional 3D Printing Service Bureau who uses a hobby 3D Printer in their facility.

I see that Hobby 3D Printers have become very popular due to the price point of obtaining one, but I have a feeling that we're going to see a lot of these hobby 3D Printers being sold as used 3D Printers when owners realize their limitations. If you need good quality parts for more professional purposes but can't afford to purchase a professional Production 3D Printer I think you're far better off using a service bureau to 3D Print models for you than purchasing a hobby 3D Printer. Just my opinion.

Have a terrific day!
Robert
3D Accuracy
3D ACCURACY

You need to take a harder look at the "hobby" machines. My i3 prints at the same quality as a Stratasys and it cost me $600 compared to the starting price of what, $15k for a uPrint? I even have a delta with positioning issues that can keep up. The only thing the commercial printers have over the "hobby" machines at this point are the heated chambers. On my next printer I will have room for dual extruders/hotends so I can do support material like HIPS, PVA, or even ABS as support for PLA. I have access to ABS, PLA, HIPS, Nylon, Polycarbonate, Flexible PLA, NinjaFlex, Color changing, glow in the dark, and other specialty filaments like carbon fiber and wood infused.

Last time I used a Stratasys, the software was terrible. You have almost no control over infill(high, low or off) and support is often wasted by either building an 1/8" thick raft or placing it in holes that many "hobby" printers can shape without support. They force you to waste support on areas that the printer is perfectly capable of building without it and you have no choice where it puts it. Not to mention the time and filament wasted purging and switching nozzles every couple layers.

You can thank Stratasys for "hobby" printers still being without heated chambers, patenting vague ideas is killing innovation. Just like they are trying to enforce infill patterns or the voids left by laying extruded filament. Most of the claims are common sense to anyone with a printer, if you lay a bunch of oval cylinder together, you will obviously have voids.