[J S Machine]

I would really like to get a small CNC machine to put at home. I have 240 two phase power to my shop. I can come up with the air requirements that one might need, but I suspect this would only be an issue with certain types of spindles.

I have a LittleMachineShop X2 with the updrade to the belt drive head and longer X. I have considered CNC'ng this machine, but I am not sure it is worth it to convert it. I need something with a little more azz than that machine has, and I figure it might be better to buy a dedicated CNC machine.

I have a spare home pc with XP that I could use as a programming computer, but I don't have any software. I think I have seen where a bunch of people here use free stuff, but I'm not sure what it is. I'd like to have Mastercam like I use at work, but it's pretty expensive. TYhat will be down the road.

I would prefer a new machine, but I am not sure what options are out there. If used will get me a much better price, I am all for it as long as the machine has not been abused. It doesn't necessarily have to be benchtop, just something that has a little more power and stiffness than my X2.

Also, I am not really sure what limitations I may face. I could probably deal with a machine that had a manual Z, but ultimately I just need a machine that can accept code by either a data line, or 3.5 floppy..and run programs. I don't need a tool changer or anything like that to begin with. A single tool machine would be fine.

If I could get something like this, I may be able to get up enough work to pay for a better machine. I'd really like to start my own shop. I have to start somewhere.

Thanks

[wizard]

I would really like to get a small CNC machine to put at home. I have 240 two phase power to my shop. I can come up with the air requirements that one might need, but I suspect this would only be an issue with certain types of spindles.

A spindle may require air for a draw bar actuator or other things but air is also handy for other things like misters or dry air blasts.

As to power to the home you do need to be careful there. Some mills built for 220 single phase can require as much as a 50 amp service.

I have a LittleMachineShop X2 with the updrade to the belt drive head and longer X. I have considered CNC'ng this machine, but I am not sure it is worth it to convert it. I need something with a little more azz than that machine has, and I figure it might be better to buy a dedicated CNC machine.

If you aren't into building your own then buying makes a lot of sense. Further I tend to agree that the X2 is less than optimal for a CNC conversion. However you do run into a problem here, a machine with "azz" as you say requires that it np be far more massive than the X2. This can negatively impact your budget. So one thing to consider is that a CNC machine doesn't have to have all of that "azz" to get something done, it will happily chip away at what ever you are trying to mill out.

I have a spare home pc with XP that I could use as a programming computer, but I don't have any software. I think I have seen where a bunch of people here use free stuff, but I'm not sure what it is. I'd like to have Mastercam like I use at work, but it's pretty expensive. TYhat will be down the road.

LinuxCNC is one of the more popular free programs for running a CNC machine and is well regarded. There are others out there so you may want to search around a bit. Buying into CNC software isn't a huge problem either as there are a number of cost effective solutions such as Mach3. Beyond that there are things like KFlop that mix free with required hardware.

The reality is you will likely be better off sourcing a second PC to dedicate to the machine as a controller. At that point it doesn't really matter what operating system or software you run on it.

I would prefer a new machine, but I am not sure what options are out there. If used will get me a much better price, I am all for it as long as the machine has not been abused. It doesn't necessarily have to be benchtop, just something that has a little more power and stiffness than my X2.

There are far more options than even a couple of years ago. Buying used will in most cases save you money but you have to seriously consider the state of the machine. If that used machine is a DIY machine you have the real concern that it may not be the best conversion going.

Also, I am not really sure what limitations I may face. I could probably deal with a machine that had a manual Z, but ultimately I just need a machine that can accept code by either a data line, or 3.5 floppy..and run programs. I don't need a tool changer or anything like that to begin with. A single tool machine would be fine.

Frankly I wouldn't even bother with a two axis machine. In my estimation it would be a waste of time. A tool changer you can easily get by without but a automatic draw bar with a selection of tool holders makes CNC usage a lot easier.

If I could get something like this, I may be able to get up enough work to pay for a better machine. I'd really like to start my own shop. I have to start somewhere.

Thanks

What type of shop? This actually makes a difference as a general purpose machine shop really needs a large machine to be able to take on the various projects that come its way. A shop with captive production can get by with a machine sized for the product at hand.

As for models/makers there are so many these days that I'm certain to mis some good ones so I'd suggest reading some of the machining magazines and doing some Internet searches for CnC mini mills.

[J S Machine]

A spindle may require air for a draw bar actuator or other things but air is also handy for other things like misters or dry air blasts.

I have air, but only like a 25 gallon compressor. What I meant was a big heavy duty air compressor that can supply the needed air pressure for some of the larger machines.

As to power to the home you do need to be careful there. Some mills built for 220 single phase can require as much as a 50 amp service.

My shop is wired for it. I believe I have either a 50 or 60 amp breaker if I'm not mistaken. I built it two years ago and wired it for the demands of a welder.

If you aren't into building your own then buying makes a lot of sense. Further I tend to agree that the X2 is less than optimal for a CNC conversion. However you do run into a problem here, a machine with "azz" as you say requires that it np be far more massive than the X2. This can negatively impact your budget. So one thing to consider is that a CNC machine doesn't have to have all of that "azz" to get something done, it will happily chip away at what ever you are trying to mill out.

Not taking nothing away from my X2, it is a good machine for what it is designed for...just not taking heavy cuts lol. I fully understand what you mean by a cnc whitling away at something..light cuts, multiple passes. I have no issue with this, other than the fact that I want a machine that will be able to handle the repeated passes it may take to complete a part over a period of time. In other words, I don't want a machine designed for engraving or other light work that I will have to run constantly and wear out, just to get usable service from it.

LinuxCNC is one of the more popular free programs for running a CNC machine and is well regarded. There are others out there so you may want to search around a bit. Buying into CNC software isn't a huge problem either as there are a number of cost effective solutions such as Mach3. Beyond that there are things like KFlop that mix free with required hardware.

Mach3 was the one I was thinking about, but I have heard of the others. Good to know there are plenty of options out there.

The reality is you will likely be better off sourcing a second PC to dedicate to the machine as a controller. At that point it doesn't really matter what operating system or software you run on it.

The PC I am speaking of would be a dedicated PC to the machine..used for nothing else.

There are far more options than even a couple of years ago. Buying used will in most cases save you money but you have to seriously consider the state of the machine. If that used machine is a DIY machine you have the real concern that it may not be the best conversion going.

When you say "do-it-yourself" machine, do you mean a regular mill that has been converted?

Frankly I wouldn't even bother with a two axis machine. In my estimation it would be a waste of time. A tool changer you can easily get by without but a automatic draw bar with a selection of tool holders makes CNC usage a lot easier.

Understood. I will keep my options open for an affordable three axis. The only way I would not consider it is if it added signinficant cost to the machine over a two axis.

What type of shop? This actually makes a difference as a general purpose machine shop really needs a large machine to be able to take on the various projects that come its way. A shop with captive production can get by with a machine sized for the product at hand.

Just a small one man shop (me). I have no interest in doing very large jobs. I have done enough of that in my career; and would much rather take on projects with smaller parts. I like making things out of aluminum, and maybe some steel parts. Mostly aluminum though. In school I ran a HAAS mini mill, which is alot of machine compared to what I'm talking about, but it should give you an idea. That thing was more than enough to do the small parts I liked to do, but I think it had a cat 40 spindle and it did have a tool changer..

I just want something small that will be a good enough machine to last a little while. I can work around its weak points, but I need it to get me started good so I can eventually get into something like a mini mill.

As for models/makers there are so many these days that I'm certain to mis some good ones so I'd suggest reading some of the machining magazines and doing some Internet searches for CnC mini mills.

Thanks

[ChrisAttebery]

The difference in cost going from a 2 axis machine to a 3 axis machine isn't that much, just the cost of the servo or stepper and a driver. I used my machine as a 2 axis for a weekend while I was waiting for some hardware to show up. I wouldn't want to do it on a regular basis.

[awerby]

Have you looked at Taigs and Sherlines? Both are made in the USA, and come with bolt-on stepper motors and control systems. Neither is exactly huge, but if small parts are what you want to make, they'll do the job.

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

[SCzEngrgGroup]

"Some mills built for 220 single phase can require as much as a 50 amp service." - Certainly not in a benchtop machine. That would be 11kW! Unless the machine has a 10+HP spindle, it's not going to require anything even near 50A. Even the Tormach only calls for a 20A circuit, and it's only that high to handle the very brief spindle start-up transient.

Regards,
Ray L.

[dogon1013]

JS,

I was just recently comparing machines to start my own little garage shop too.

Ideally I would want the Smithy CNC1240. Talon CNC 1240 Bed Mill | smithy.com
This is a Nice machine, and it can do RIGID TAPPING, which most other similarly priced machines cannot. We have one at the machine shop I work in, and it is a nice little work horse. But at $13K, it is a little too much for my budget.

The Tormach CNC 1100 machines are the next step down on the ladder. 1100 Personal CNC Mill | Tormach Has Affordable CNC Milling Machines
Base price is $8.5K, but you are looking closer at $10k for a working machine. They are a little smaller and a little less powerful than the Smithy, and no rigid tapping. But the Options available are vast. But if you throw in all the options they offer, you might as well get a real industry CNC machine like a Haas (mini mill for $31k).


The Syil X4 is what I am leaning towards. Syil America X4 Standard CNC Mill | Bench top CNC | Bench top Mill | Used CNC milling machines | CNC Mills
At $5.5K (without PC controller) it is the cheapest option, but it is still a substantial enough machine to do some real machining.


Now there are a few other manufacturers out there, but they all seem to fit within the price range and size of the machines above. I have only personally worked on the Smithy 1240, so I can't really vouch for the other machines. But you now have a little more info to research for yourself.

The machine you should get really depends on your machining needs and budget, and only you know those.
Of course the cheapest solution would be to CNC your existing machine....and that is likelly what I will do until I get the funds for a bigger machine.

[photomankc]

I would be REAL wary of the Syil stuff. I was at one time considering it but the stories of the lack of any support of substance waved me off. If I'm going to be out on my own I'd rather build it up from parts that I know I can get replacements for.

Novakon Taurus machines are another in this class of machine that is decent but with sketchy support and longevity. The financing option they have does make it interesting.

[wizard]

I have air, but only like a 25 gallon compressor. What I meant was a big heavy duty air compressor that can supply the needed air pressure for some of the larger machines.

It is all about volume at a specific pressure. Most machines that require a pressurized air source should specify what is needed.

My shop is wired for it. I believe I have either a 50 or 60 amp breaker if I'm not mistaken. I built it two years ago and wired it for the demands of a welder.

Obviously it depends upon the machine you get and if you are focused on "bench top". I have a hard time with what passes as benchtop in this forum. Some guys have put as much as three horse power motors on their machines which can be significant. If you opt to go used and get a small commercial mill, one of the single phase Haas for example, the extra AC capacity would be handy.

Depending upon what you are running off that sub panel you may find yourself limited buy the 50 amp breaker. My father had a garage with a similar feeder and it was possible to pop the breaker running the table saw if enough other things where powered up at the same time.

Not taking nothing away from my X2, it is a good machine for what it is designed for...just not taking heavy cuts lol.

I'd go a bit further and say it is a bit of a compromise for CNC conversion.

I fully understand what you mean by a cnc whitling away at something..light cuts, multiple passes. I have no issue with this, other than the fact that I want a machine that will be able to handle the repeated passes it may take to complete a part over a period of time. In other words, I don't want a machine designed for engraving or other light work that I will have to run constantly and wear out, just to get usable service from it.

That is good because I don't have to suggest getting a bigger mill.

Mach3 was the one I was thinking about, but I have heard of the others. Good to know there are plenty of options out there.

Yes plenty of options but unfortunately many go with Mach due to it being popular. Mach is very good of course but this means that other options end up seeing less development.

The PC I am speaking of would be a dedicated PC to the machine..used for nothing else.

When you say "do-it-yourself" machine, do you mean a regular mill that has been converted?

Exactly! If you buy such a mill used you end up with a bit of a crap shoot depending upon how well the DIY conversion was done. That is what I was getting at. If I was to buy a used DIY CNC conversion I would expect a deep discount unless I had a very high level of confidence in the person that did the conversion. Remember not everyone into this interest reads CNCZone, there are some real hacks out there.

Understood. I will keep my options open for an affordable three axis. The only way I would not consider it is if it added signinficant cost to the machine over a two axis.

Significant? That is hard to judge when you consider that a base machine starts at around $1000 and rapidly increases from there.

Just a small one man shop (me). I have no interest in doing very large jobs. I have done enough of that in my career; and would much rather take on projects with smaller parts. I like making things out of aluminum, and maybe some steel parts. Mostly aluminum though. In school I ran a HAAS mini mill, which is alot of machine compared to what I'm talking about, but it should give you an idea. That thing was more than enough to do the small parts I liked to do, but I think it had a cat 40 spindle and it did have a tool changer..

More than enough it may be but it is a good investment for a small shop if you want or need a commercial mill. Frankly they don't take up that much more room than some of the bench tops by the time you consider the bench, enclosure, control panel and other goodies needed to run a conversion mill.

I just want something small that will be a good enough machine to last a little while. I can work around its weak points, but I need it to get me started good so I can eventually get into something like a mini mill.

You seem to have a goal to get something similar to a Mini mill. Before buying a smaller mill you might want to consider keeping an eye open for a used small mill. You never really know what you may find out there and frankly I expect a tough business climate next year. I'm not certain about your business plans but it might make achieving them a bit easier if you start out with the right size mill. Right size being what you are now targeting for in a couple of years.

Thanks