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IndustryArena Forum > Machine Controllers Software and Solutions > Fanuc > Ladder info and Ladder vs input signal wires?
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  1. #1
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    Ladder info and Ladder vs input signal wires?

    I have a few questions related to the ladder and ladder logic. I am working on a Fanuc 11M model A.

    I'm issuing a M code and the machine waits for feedback from a microswitch. I need to know where to wire in that microswitch.

    1. Is there a way to see which logic circuit or logic block a program is waiting on feedback from?

    2. How can I translate that logic circuit or logic block in the ladder to a physical wire in the I/O unit in the 11M control?

    If you can answer either of these questions I would be very greatful.
    A reference on how this ladder logic works would also be interesting to have.

    This is all related to my project of upgrading to a 4th axis... I am almost there! If you're interested in the details, please see this thread:

    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/fanuc/...ng_4_axis.html

  2. #2
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    You need to use a spare input for the micro sw. and write it into the ladder in the FIN(ish) output string.
    This is a common rung that the PMC uses to pass this signal back to the CNC side that the M code has completed.
    When the ladder is displayed, the status of the contacts and coils in the rungs are highlighted when ON or active.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  3. #3
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    Thanks Al.

    I believe this signal is already in the ladder and the wiring exists in the machine. I'm simply trying to locate those wires in the terminal blocks in the cabinet by using the ladder.

    What I was hoping was that there is a way to see in the ladder, which contact the program (or active M code) is waiting on.

    Next I was hoping to find which physical wire corresponds to that contact.


    I was able to locate a relay and trace wire number 139 to the main terminal block. It is the signal from a relay (24v high) to disengage the brake. Most of the parameters and wiring for the 4th axis were factory installed in the machine so I'm optimistic that the feedback circuit for the brake should be there as well.

  4. #4
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    The MTB-supplied electrical manual will have the information which terminal corresponds to which input/output (X/Y) signal.

  5. #5
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    Unfortunately all of my manuals were lost in a fire. Hence I am reverse engineering the inputs and outputs. I was able to find a programmer's manual and operator's manual, but these lack in wiring, ladder and parameter information.

    I spent some time this evening and found out a few things:

    When the M11 code is commanded, Y000.6 becomes illuminated in the ladder. To ensure this is the correct output, I checked a few other M codes. This output is unique to M11.

    This "rung" (is that the correct term?) of the ladder is a single line across and looks like this:

    Code:
    | Y000.6     R004.1                          G076.4 |
    |---||---------||-------------------------------O---|
    Checking the PCDGN page at address F0019 shows an effect from the M codes as well:
    M11 execution changes F0019 bit 3 from 0 to O (zero with a slash through it to O).


    Both of the above observations are unique to M11 code execution. Neither happen during other M codes I tested.

    It seems like there has to be a way to discern from the ladder which input effects the completion of M11.

  6. #6
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    Ladder

    What type and brand of machine?

  7. #7
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    I am working on a Kuraki KV-700 VMC with Fanuc 11MA control.
    It was manufactured late 1986.

  8. #8
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    The way the FIN signal is written is the choice of the MTB.
    It helps to have the BMI manual for the 11, I have the 15 which should be very close.
    In the ladder, just as X & Y's are physical I/O, Rxxxx's are internal register bits, Fxxxx are bits sent from the CNC to the PMC/PLC ladder, Gxxxx's are the return bits sent from the PMC back to the CNC, for e.g. the FIN signal is a Gxxxx register.
    In the case of X & Y not all are open to use, some are dedicated to a function, R's are not assigned, but the BMI G's and F's are.
    IOW the G & F are the registers that the CNC and the ladder (PMC) use to communicate back and forth.
    I can see if I can track down an old 10 or 11 ladder I may have to verify how close they are to the 15 BMI I have.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  9. #9
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    Al, that would be great!


    Is there a way to export the ladder diagram via the RS232 connection?
    When I bought this machine I had a nice printout of the ladder, a wiring diagram book, parameters list, etc. Lost all of that in a fire.

    Recently I found the operator's manual and programming manuals on e-bay. I purchased them knowing they were for the 10M. So far, they are the same as my 11M with a few less features/options. Unfortunately, there is nothing related to wiring or parameters in those books.

    Fanuc will not sell me any parts or documentation because I'm not a business... Just a guy with an old machine tool.

  10. #10
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    The FIN signal in a 15T is G005.1.
    It looks like it might be the same in the 11.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  11. #11
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwtoyota View Post
    Is there a way to export the ladder diagram via the RS232 connection?

    Fanuc will not sell me any parts or documentation because I'm not a business... Just a guy with an old machine tool.
    Not in readable form, unless you have the necessary documentation S/W.
    I have some manuals for the 15 that may help as the BMI manual and assignments are very close, AFAIK.
    Fanuc do not write the ladder for the machine, they just supply a blank controller to the system integrator or OEM.
    The OEM/MTB are the only ones, other than other owners that could supply the original copies and detail of their M codes etc.
    I can send what I have on the 10 and 15 if you P.M. and email add.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  12. #12
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    So if I understand correctly, I should check the ladder diagram for inputs "X" connected to G005.1 and translate those to physical pins?

    Is there an easy way to make that translation from X or Y to physical pin?

    I'll send you a PM. Thanks for the help!

  13. #13
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Probably best to do it from both way, back track from G005.1, and forward from the X input, IF you know the assignment.
    There is a common method used to operate the FIN signal and usually it ends up with a small rung with R- registers used by the various FIN signals from different M code sources or completions.
    One advantage with the original ladder hard copy, it usually has all the bit assignment labels printed in, and also all the rung numbers where a bit is used, this helps tremendously when trying to decipher a unknown ladder.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  14. #14
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    So I found the G076.4 (see my previous post) in that documentation... It's listed as the "INTERLOCK" for the 4th axis.

    I suppose whatever input I'm looking for will effect this interlock when the brake release M11 is commanded and completed. I'll keep digging and see what I can find out.

    If anything, I'm learning a lot about this system through this exercise... That alone is worth all of my efforts.

  15. #15
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    Interlock is only the resulting action of "Axis off" logic. Axis off is issued whenever an axis is clamped.

    Pretty sure I'm on the right track here:

    unclamp signal, BUCLP, is set low .
    unclamp completion signal, BEUCL must be set high.

    I'll research further tonight which inputs and outputs are connected to these signals.

  16. #16
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    you can try to hit the left(maybe right?) softkey with ladder displayed, and press 'symbol' softkey- hopefully the text is in there already...the 10/11 cant display both the address and symbol simultaneously, you gotta toggle back and forth...

  17. #17
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    for figuring out the i/o, look on the ladder title page- hopefully its BMI, if they used FS3 or FS6 interfaces, everythings moved around...

    on the main plc page, hit the param softkey, then i/o- your x/y address blocks will be listed by rack/base/slot, if using rack/individual yellow modules. the connecting manual will tell you what the types mean and their locations.

    some oems used 'connection unit' (big wide board- usually plugged into a wire wrap unit) type or motherboard mounted 'i/o card' type(think i/o card type was 10 only?)- but again, the ladder will tell you where they are assigned.

    I'm almost certain the 11/15 adressing is the same as Al mentioned- the 15 has some extra stuff included, but Ive never noticed anything missing...my 10/11/12 connecting, BMI, PMC-I/J/K books are tattered so bad, last few times I worked on a 11 I used a 15 book

  18. #18
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    just thinking- I *think* there was a way to print the ladder to a serial printer, from the title page, try hitting the rt/left softkeys for more options...might need the editor enabled, think its in K17, but I dont recall.

    if you have a old serial comm program, you can dump the garbled up ladder out the port(I just dont recall if it had to have a RAMcard mounted to do it). *if* you get the raw ladder ascii file, configure your printer for 80 columns and 1/8" line feeds, it will print out correctly. I use a old HP laserjet4/4p/4plus series for this, as they dont require drivers, and I use DOS laptop still whenever possible

  19. #19
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    I found the wires!

    So with some help from Al, I read through a little documentation on the 15MB.

    I found R004.1 which is the register between Y000.6 (M11 relay output) and the G076.4 + G076.6 (Interlock and Servo Off).

    Next I searched the ladder for R004.1... Thats where I found inputs X014.2 and X014.3. They are set to activate or deactivate R004.1

    I searched the manual and in the alarm list I found a brief list of Limit Switch alarms. LS10 and LS11 are tool clamp/unclamp. Then it lists LS12 and LS13 as the 4th axis clamp/unclamp. So I traced the wires and found that LS10 = wire 227, LS11 = wire 228. The manual tool unclamp button is wire 229.


    I went back to the terminal block with the Limit Switch (LS-#) connections. Right there were wires 230 and 231.

    I watched the ladder while I brought input wire 230 high... Right away it lit up my rung.
    Next I tested wire 231... It lit up the unlock input.

    So I've deduced that

    LS-12 should connect to wire 231 and signal the machine that the 4th axis is clamped.
    LS-13 should connect to wire 230 and signal the machine that the 4th axis is unclamped.

    These limit switches will of course be inside the rotary table.

    I used a jumper wire to hold wire 230 high. Now I can rotate the axis A servo from the homing mode, handwheel mode, as well as jog & rapid modes.

    Next I need to find the input connection for the deceleration dog so that I can home this axis. I've traced the other deceleration dog wires from X, Y and Z axis, so I know where to look.

    That decel wire for homing will be the last piece of the puzzle. Time to start looking for a rotary table with a compatible servo.

  20. #20
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Well done!
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

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