[thor2002]

A couple of years ago, our cabinet-making company decided to buy an old cnc router. It came with some propriatry software, which didn't quite work but it did the job. After one year of trying the boss decided to purchase a new program for the machine, bobcad. Unfortunately, it came with little intructions, nor a proper post-processor, so it was dropped (granted, we stopped putting time in it as well, but it cost us more than we got out of it).
Last year the old machine was traded in for a brand new SCM router, which came with a software package. We were thrilled, finally a working combination. Well...
As it turned out, we got all beta versions of the program, since we were one of the first and few who bought these machines. So we ended up with genio 4, a shell using Auocad as a basis but messing up all the easiness of autocad and adding all kinds of restrictions. It works. But thats it. It gives us the ability to draw one (Yes, one!) object per drawing, then we can export the solid to xilog. After that, the guys in the workshop can work with xilog to place cups, change parameters if needed, and produce.

SO now we are at a crossroad again. What options do we have?
We got a call from vectorworks. They make a great design-program (for the mac!) which can be complimented with interiorcad, although the names change from time to time we noticed. Well.... maybe.
Then there is alphacam. Looks good, but does it have an extended library with hinges, handles etc. for cabinetmaking?
And then there is imos, an obscure program, used (partly) at schools around here in the Netherlands.

And I have no clue. I would like to see what Vectorworks can offer, but it is pricey (so was bobcad...) Alphacam ,never heared of it, what can it do? And imos, what to think of that?
What it comes down to is this. What software should a cabinetmaker (with a brandnew SCM router) use? Oh, and Genio is out of the race

Thanks foor all your thoughts!

[txcncman]

Really depends on your model of machine and your final product. CAM for milling is usually generalized. CAM for routing can be more specialized. If you are doing multiple types of products the CAM for milling might be the right choice, but you will have to spend time learning to implement efficiently.

[thor2002]

Hi txcncman,

thanks for your quick reply.

The machine is a SCM Tech Z2. The machine is ment to produce flat panel work, used in cabinets. Mainly kitchen cabinets, so wit loads of different drawers/ gliders, runners, hinges and handles (the holes for the, that is)

Furthermore a lot of ribs are produce for curved desks. Over these ribs thin layers of wood are glued to produce firm, curved walls.

hope this clearifies my question a bit

[txcncman]

So, basically 2D edge cuts and drilled holes?

[txcncman]

You might want to look into Vectric Cut 2D: Cut 2D - Overview | 2D Hobby CNC Machining | Contour machining | Text Engraving

[fixtureman1]

Cabinet Parts Pro would be one I would look at. They do have a demo and the full version is not to much. There are some cabinet makers that use it and the fellow that wrote the program is very helpful

[thor2002]

If you look at the final stage, indeed it comes down to 2 cuts, some horizontal and some vertical drilling
But there is a bit more to it; most of the programs we were offered and indeed even came with the machine, claim that they can:
-create parametric cabinets, with all parts, like sides, top, bottom, gliders etc.,
-create out of these complete assemblies, single parts, and
-create for all these parts the final pgm file, from which XilogPlus can produce a gcode file.

However, with all the programs we tried, there are obstacles. Like incompatibility, no manual or even correct language file (I had to translate every button from italian to dutch...).
So now we have the bucks, but after bumping our nose once too often...

[txcncman]

Horizontal (aggregate) drilling is where I have found most non-specialized software suffers. You will probably have to hand code these operations or go with one of the specialized software packages. If the vendor cannot supply the software to you "turn key" and show you that it fully programs your parts, DO NOT BUY.

[thor2002]

Txcncman, I agree, the downside is, that the software came 'for an interesting price', so the boss couldn't resist. However, after a couple of days translating the program itself and no cabinet coming of the line, he realised this program didn't exactly measure up to the promises. By the way, this program, calles XCab, is somewhat of a mystery program, this afternoon I asked the boss to contact SCMgroup again, asking for a tutorial. They did send us a 'manual', but that was nothing more than an overview of every function. We've been waiting for almost a year for this, so how long it will take them to write a workflow diagram from idea to product...everybody's guess is as good as any.

[txcncman]

I realize you are trying to correct a problem from the past. I am not familiar with your software and cannot directly assist. My recommendation about getting a full on site demostration that a given software will work was for future references and for anyone else that might be reading this thread.

[ger21]

If you really want to take advantage of your new machine, what you really need is a high end cabinet program. There are many packages out there that can do the cabinet portion of what you want, from design to g-code. But don't be surprised to spend $10,000-$25,000, plus several thousand dollars for proper training. Also, expect the learning curve and setup time to last up to a year or more. Depending on
These programs have built in support for horizontal drilling and all the other features you need for cabinets.

If anyone tells you they can do everything for considerably less money, they're either lying, or don't know what they're talking about.
There is one new package that may be the exception, though. Products - Mozaik Software

You can also just use the cabinet program as a "front end", where you design and export part files, to be processed in a specialized CAM program like AlphaCAM or CadCode. I currently do this with AlphaCAM, but have used CadCode in the past and prefer it, as it's much easier and faster once setup properly.

The type of work you do and the way you work may influence your decision. There are basically two types of systems. One, where you do all the design in the software.And the second is sometimes called an order entry system. With this type, you just select predefined cabinets from a library, and process them for machining. If you don't need the design portion, an order entry type system should allow you to process a much larger volume in the same amount of time.

For you're curved walls, my preference is to just draw the parts in AutoCAD, and program them in a CAM program. There are packages that claim to be able to do them, but realize that there are no packages that are good at everything, regardless of what salesman will tell you.

[txcncman]

I briefly looked over Moziak. Appears to be from the same folks that brought us Sketchup. I would be very leary of the abilities claimed. But, since it is software served online, you can pay by the month. So, instead of thousands of dollars up front to be spent on something you have no clue will work, it would be just over one hundred dollars a month to test the entire package for abilities and usefulness. That makes it very appealing.

[thor2002]

@txcncman: it isn't out intention to try to fix our current programs, instead the boss is willing to invest in new software, butlet's say he learned from his mistakes the last couple of times, with regards to software.

Any program mentioned here is worth taking a look at, I believe it to be better than only looking at the nice, shiny leaflets and brochures we get.

[ger21]

Here's a few places to start looking.

Cabinet Vision Products
Home | Microvellum Cabinet Design & Manufacturing Software
CADCode Systems | Software Solutions for Automated Manufacturing
Cabinet Manufacturing Software | 20-20 Shopware | 20-20 Technologies
Cabnetware - Advanced software for casegoods manufacturing

[victorofga]

check 20-20

expenses.. but everything is in.. doormanufacturers giving you free database about their door..

i cant say 100 percent sure but i think i saw the local lowes also using...

from inputing the area dimensions, including room heigths... takes about 15-20 min the visualization

and since it is works from a built database, it gives out immediatelly all drawerslide, shelfpins.. hardwares..
also all cutlist associated with the cabinet..

with this you can say, you have a 24 inch standard cabinet, but your room for is 27.3... you just type the 27.3 actual width and everything is recalculated..
including all cutlist..



edit
while i typed gerry already gave ..

as much i know, enkeboll, and other woodcarving companies also have full database for.. i mean about their own product..

but as gerry mentioned it is expenses..

http://www.2020technologies.com/en-u...cabinet-makers

[turmite]

Thor2002 could you clarify if you are only wanting cam, or cad as well? If you need both, and your boss is willing to pay to train, you have a Rhino/Grasshopper specialist not too far from you. Grasshopper is a plugin for Rhino that is parametric. I use and sell Madcam here in the US, but I am not sure it would be suited for your needs. I would suggest you contact Joakim at Madcam and ask him what he thinks. I know in the past, for woodworking users here in the US, he implemented changes rather quickly, but now that he is just finishing the beta of V5, am not sure he would have the time. Would't hurt to ask. I am pretty sure the Grasshopper plug for Rhino will do anything you need to do and if it is just the cad you need, the Rhino/Grasshopper combo is likely going to be less expensive that most any dedicated program out there.

I hope I am not out of place here in recommending that Thor contact Joakim since I cannot benefit from the contact. If so, mod, delete.

Mike

[ger21]

None of those products can even come close to a true cabinet package, which is what the OP really needs.

[turmite]

Hey Gerry,

I have no doubt that is true, but was trying to make a suggestion that might not cost $20k...

I can tell you this though, having to work with software where you have to hammer a square peg into a round hole, sucks!

BTW, have you seen some of the stuff done with Grasshopper? To me, most of it is strange looking...but!

Mike

[napwszzm]

Hi thor2002, i would like to ask how is your boss's decision? Which cad cam he purchased?
I am thinking to start my work shop in the later of this year, but my budget is quite tight, i know the cabinet vision and imos are expensive, and i dont have experiences on them. Therefore, i am thinking to buy solidworks and alphacam as my tools.


It would be grateful if you can update your current situation that how the new softwares work like.

Thanks