[Solid_Brass]

I have a 2012 VM2 (all bells an whistles). I had an issue a few weeks ago with with it machining .009 too shallow, so I re-calibrated the probe and tool setter. Everything was good after that. This week I found it was machining .008 too deep into one of our molds. I re-adjusted the Spindle probe heighth in the offsets page to compesate, indicated everyhing and everything was right on and machining accuratly. Today, after running several programs on the same mold, with the same ballnose endmill, it lost it's Z position. It started machining 5in in the air, similar to if I forget to input the correct Heigth offset. Checked the program and nothing wrong with it. I zeroed all the axis, and it seemed to "fix" it.

I want to note that in all this it never alarmed out, other than the occasional verticle axis missing grease (alarm 944 I think), when it hits an air bubble in the line. I get that damn thing I would say teice a month.

I called haas and was told that if it didn't alarm out it was probalbly due to power and ground issues. Normally when we get a voltage spike or drop, it kicks off our surface grinders, which didn't happen.

So my question is, has something similar happened to anyone here, or does anyone have any suggestions of things to look at? My concern is it is a processor/board issue.

Thanks,
Dan

[haastec]

I have a 2012 VM2 (all bells an whistles). I had an issue a few weeks ago with with it machining .009 too shallow, so I re-calibrated the probe and tool setter. Everything was good after that. This week I found it was machining .008 too deep into one of our molds. I re-adjusted the Spindle probe heighth in the offsets page to compesate, indicated everyhing and everything was right on and machining accuratly. Today, after running several programs on the same mold, with the same ballnose endmill, it lost it's Z position. It started machining 5in in the air, similar to if I forget to input the correct Heigth offset. Checked the program and nothing wrong with it. I zeroed all the axis, and it seemed to "fix" it.

I want to note that in all this it never alarmed out, other than the occasional verticle axis missing grease (alarm 944 I think), when it hits an air bubble in the line. I get that damn thing I would say teice a month.

I called haas and was told that if it didn't alarm out it was probalbly due to power and ground issues. Normally when we get a voltage spike or drop, it kicks off our surface grinders, which didn't happen.

So my question is, has something similar happened to anyone here, or does anyone have any suggestions of things to look at? My concern is it is a processor/board issue.

Thanks,
Dan

Some questions for you to clarify some things.

1. Is the machine still under warranty?
2. Describe in detail how you are calibrating the tool setter.
3. Are you calibrating tool setter and spindle probe each time?
4. When you calibrate the spindle probe, does the value displayed in offsets page change the amount and direction you are off?
5. Last time you had the problem you stated that you zeroed the machine axis and that it seemed to fix it. Are you saying that you had an issue with depth, zeroed the machine, and then it would cut at the correct height again without any other changes?
6. Not trying to insult, but what is your experience level with the Haas control?

[Solid_Brass]

1) Yes, still under wrrenty. I did call Selway and tak to them, the tech was the one wo said it might be voltage issues, and was told to just keep an eye on it.

2) The First time I calibrated the tool, I used the VCQ method.
-I calibrated both spindle probe and tool setter. I first swept the tool setter anvil for flatness and made shure it was within .0002, then indicated the outside diameter to make shure it wasn't worn or chipped where it touches off on the edge of the tool. I then indicated the Spindle probe ruby and adjusted it for concentricity whithin .0001.
-I put in my calibration bar (.25 gauge pin permenently pressed into a holder). I joged above and to the centerish of the tool setter. I entered my tool length (which I was told isn't really critical), diameter, and table side in the VQC probe screen. I output it to my MDI screen and ran it there.
-I put in my spindle probe to its designsted tool holder (mine is tool 24). I moved the probe to the center and abover the tool setter. Ran the spinde probe Z calibration, output to MDI and ran it there. Went into Spindle Probe X,Y Calibration. I attach my 1" ring gage to my table with three magnets (this is how the haas guy did it during the machine install). I move the probe inside the ring gage, in the middle. I entered the inside diameter in the screen, output to MDI, and run there

3) I have only calibrated it once, which was after I noticed it was cutting .009 too high (a few weeks ago). The parts I made after that were right on. This week when it was machining .008 low, I edited the tool heigth number in the tool offsets for the spindle probe (which is tool 24 for us). I subtraced .008 to the number. After I did that I had my ball endmill cut .2 above the part, stoped the program, and measured the distance with gauge blocks. It was right at .020 (which before it was .120)

4) when I re-calibrated the first time I didn't record the the number in the offsets, so I am not shure if it changed the amount I was off.

5)basiclly yes, Had an issue with Z cutting way up in the air (when the program shouldn't have), I sent all axis to machine home. I re-started the program and it ran at the correct depth.

6) Not insulted, no worries. I have several years experience with Haas mills. They were the older controller, so the layout and colored screen on the VM2 is a little new, but it didn't take me long to figure out the differences. I am by no means an expert with them.

Some questions for you to clarify some things.

1. Is the machine still under warranty?
2. Describe in detail how you are calibrating the tool setter.
3. Are you calibrating tool setter and spindle probe each time?
4. When you calibrate the spindle probe, does the value displayed in offsets page change the amount and direction you are off?
5. Last time you had the problem you stated that you zeroed the machine axis and that it seemed to fix it. Are you saying that you had an issue with depth, zeroed the machine, and then it would cut at the correct height again without any other changes?
6. Not trying to insult, but what is your experience level with the Haas control?

[haastec]

Correct me if I am wrong, but are there times where you are off roughly .005" - .010" and then times where you are off inches?

Either way, do not let the HFO off the hook that easily. Call them back and have them bring someone else in to look at your system. Especially if you are off inches and you are certain that you are using your offsets and setup correctly. If this is a warranty issue then have them address it now and not later.

2) The First time I calibrated the tool, I used the VCQ method.
-I calibrated both spindle probe and tool setter. I first swept the tool setter anvil for flatness and made shure it was within .0002, then indicated the outside diameter to make shure it wasn't worn or chipped where it touches off on the edge of the tool. I then indicated the Spindle probe ruby and adjusted it for concentricity whithin .0001.
-I put in my calibration bar (.25 gauge pin permenently pressed into a holder). I joged above and to the centerish of the tool setter. I entered my tool length (which I was told isn't really critical), diameter, and table side in the VQC probe screen. I output it to my MDI screen and ran it there.

There is a critical part of the tool setter calibration procedure that you have described wrong. Your calibration tool length and diameter are most definitely critical. This could be why you have .008, .009", .020" length variances.
You will need to measure the guage lenth of your calibration tool (from face of spindle to tip of pin) and also your measured diameter of the pin. Ensure that the pin runs true and is flat on the bottom for accurate results.

Do this procedure immediately and recalibrate the spindle probe once the tool setter is done.
Run things and see what kind of results you get. If you still get the 5" jumps that you described, then you most certainly have other issues and definitely bring your HFO back in to address ASAP!

Report back how you make out.

[WallyL7]

1)was told to just keep an eye on it....

LOL:bs:

5)basiclly yes, Had an issue with Z cutting way up in the air (when the program shouldn't have), I sent all axis to machine home. I re-started the program and it ran at the correct depth.

I would be scared to death to push cycle start on that machine. It could easily have been Z cutting way down in your table!!!!!!!

[Solid_Brass]

The length of the calibratin bar was from the spindle face to the bottom of the pin. Made shure it was spinning tru and that the bottom is flat. I re-calibrated everything and the number in the offset didn't change. I have been running some non-critical parts and it seems to be machining right on currently. I am going to check at the end of the day to check to see if the Z height is till right on. I am definently watching the mill like a hawk.

[Delw]

for the .008 and 009 problem, check the tightness of your probe for the inch problem i wouldnt run it

[Matt@RFR]

Your calibration tool length and diameter are most definitely critical.

Slight correction here. The diameter is definitely critical, but the length of the calibration tool is not. I measure mine with a tape measure from the top of the toolholder flange to the bottom of the tool (gauge pin), because that's how I measure tools when setting them for cycles that need a length input. This number can be literally eyeballed and as long as all tools in the machine are touched off after eyeballing the calibration tool and the spindle probe is calibrated to the tool setter, it all comes out in the wash. It's relative. Just FYI.

[haastec]

Slight correction here. The diameter is definitely critical, but the length of the calibration tool is not. I measure mine with a tape measure from the top of the toolholder flange to the bottom of the tool (gauge pin), because that's how I measure tools when setting them for cycles that need a length input. This number can be literally eyeballed and as long as all tools in the machine are touched off after eyeballing the calibration tool and the spindle probe is calibrated to the tool setter, it all comes out in the wash. It's relative. Just FYI.

Yes, you are 100% correct and I stand corrected as well.

Since I interact with so many people with different levels of skill, I never go down that road because it generally creates more questions or confusion than anything else; so I guess I forget about that fact. It's also a personal preference since I deal with so many repairs. I like to deal with as many "knowns" as possible when troubleshooting. Heck, I had to run things through in my head a couple times before responding.

[Matt@RFR]

Yes, you are 100% correct and I stand corrected as well.

Since I interact with so many people with different levels of skill, I never go down that road because it generally creates more questions or confusion than anything else; so I guess I forget about that fact. It's also a personal preference since I deal with so many repairs. I like to deal with as many "knowns" as possible when troubleshooting. Heck, I had to run things through in my head a couple times before responding.

All good points, and I can see the need to have an accurate length for the cal tool when troubleshooting. I didn't think about that!

[ttckcncuser]

im using a vf-2 mill and mastercam x5, i drew up a simple program for a steering arm (roughly 3000 lines of g code) nothing major. ever since i loaded the profile, the haas has been giving me a z overtravel alarm and i still have travel past the top of the table. once i get it to surpass the z overtravel by hand jogging it down close to the part, it then gives me a x overtravel. once i hand jog it to center of the part it then gives me a y overtravel. its a never ending process. i havent changed anything in the parameters and nothing different from usual in mastercam, except i started the program using a bridgeport torqucut then changed the file to the vf-2. but i even deleted the toolpath and machine definition and redone all of that and it still keeps throwing the alarms on the machine. any advise?

[haastec]

im using a vf-2 mill and mastercam x5, i drew up a simple program for a steering arm (roughly 3000 lines of g code) nothing major. ever since i loaded the profile, the haas has been giving me a z overtravel alarm and i still have travel past the top of the table. once i get it to surpass the z overtravel by hand jogging it down close to the part, it then gives me a x overtravel. once i hand jog it to center of the part it then gives me a y overtravel. its a never ending process. i havent changed anything in the parameters and nothing different from usual in mastercam, except i started the program using a bridgeport torqucut then changed the file to the vf-2. but i even deleted the toolpath and machine definition and redone all of that and it still keeps throwing the alarms on the machine. any advise?

FYI, you might be better off starting a new thread to discuss your particular problem rather than clutter an existing topic different from yours.

But to answer your question, it sounds like your work offsets are not set correctly. ie: G54, G55, etc.

[Solid_Brass]

Just an update, I was never able to re-create the issue of it randomly losing the Z position. Both Haas and my HFO were verry helpfull. One thing that might have led to the issue that the tech that came out mentioned, is that on the newer mills, the probe should be calibrated in WIPS, and not VQC. After I re-calibrated it, It is repeating within .0003 and making good parts.

[haastec]

Just an update, I was never able to re-create the issue of it randomly losing the Z position. Both Haas and my HFO were verry helpfull. One thing that might have led to the issue that the tech that came out mentioned, is that on the newer mills, the probe should be calibrated in WIPS, and not VQC. After I re-calibrated it, It is repeating within .0003 and making good parts.

Thanks for the follow up and I am glad things are working well for you.

I am not questioning your success, but I have 4 machines less than 1 1/2 years old, and all of them have used VQC probing routines exclusively including the calibration cycles without problem. I don't think the operators even know the IPS system is available, but I decided to keep using the VQC system because 4 other older machines were currently running that way and I wanted to keep thing consistent.

Nothing wrong with the IPS system though, so I hope things continue to operate well for you.

[WallyL7]

Today, after running several programs on the same mold, with the same ballnose endmill, it lost it's Z position. It started machining 5in in the air, similar to if I forget to input the correct Heigth offset. Checked the program and nothing wrong with it. I zeroed all the axis, and it seemed to "fix" it.

After I re-calibrated it, It is repeating within .0003 and making good parts.

Perhaps someone can correct me but if you are running parts and just all of a sudden on a random part the machine is 5 inches above it...you don't have a probe problem. You have a serious software issue IMO. You should probably keep your hand on the E-Stop ALWAYS! Do not let Haas off the hook. Like I said, if you are giving us all the info, then that positive -Z- 5 inches could have been a negative -Z- 5 inches...