[thuss]

Hi All,

I am looking to purchase a PCNC 770. This will be my first machine and am completely new to CNC milling.

I am hoping you can give me some advise on the best tooling/equipment to purchase from tormach right away, there seems to be a lot of options available. Are some tools best pruchased form other sources?

I will be milling mostly aluminium but also some plastic, ureol (modelling foam) and small amounts of steel or titanium.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Cheers!

[Steve Seebold]

First off, don't buy the 770. If you can swing it, buy the 1100. It's only a few hundres dollard more and the size difference is substantial.

When I bought my machine, I had been a real CNC shop owner only 3 years before, so I had a pretty good idea what tooling I wanted/needed. I bought 4 each 1/4, 5/16, 3/8 and 1/2 inch set screw tool holders. I wish I had gotten more. I also bought 6 each ER 16 and ER 16 collet tool holders. Then I got the PDB with the foot pedal, and the shuttle jog wheel. I also bought the automatic oiler which is really cool, because now I never forget to pull the handle to oil the machine. I only have to fill the oiler about every 6 weeks.

I used to do a little steel on my machine, but no more. Steel is just too hard on cutters. Especially if it's hardened steel. Now I do aluminum, brass, copper and plastic.

I have developed a product line of hardware for remote control gasoline powered race boats. So now all I do is make parts for those.

[DiverBob]

The 770 is a good machine and since I mainly cut aluminum and delrin the 10,000 rpm ability is great. Although the 1100 is also a great machine the 770 has its place also.
The Tormach CNC Operators set of Tools is a great place to start with a variety of tool holders. As I use the equipment more I find I want several more small drill chucks which would speed up some operations as I would have my most commonly used sizes ready to go. Get a good vise, some parallels and several HSS end mills, I would start with 1/8, 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 to start out with. Get several of each since as a new CNC operator you will break most of them learning! Save the nice ($$$) carbides for later once you get a better feel for the machine.

Bob

[Just Me]

...I used to do a little steel on my machine, but no more. Steel is just too hard on cutters. ...

Just need to use the right tooling on the 1100...That means Solid Tool holder...No TTS...

attached photo shows a Iscar T290 FLN-10 90° Face Mills with T290 LNMT 1004...
1 1/4 dia 5 inserts.
1 1/4 woc.
3/16 doc
750 RPM
.8 hp
3 ipm.
materail 17-4
Load meter 45%
This set of inserts already has about 10 hours of tool life...My guess about 14 hours of use before change...

[al010964]

Hi,

I think I posted a very similar question about a year ago from memory when I purchased the 770 and the variables are many as you would expect.

I make bits for rc planes and moulds etc.

The fly cutter is great for cleaning up alu. blocks quickly, and I have also become a big fan of the modular insert tooling they sell especially when cutting greater than 1.3" deep pockets.

I have been very happy with maritool for most mill bits, haven't come across a good suppler in Australia but ..... haven't looked real hard either as I have been happy with these guys.

Where are you in oz, I am up in Darwin.

Cheers,
.adrian

[bobeson]

I work almost entirely with steel on my pcnc1100 these days. As posted above, shallow facemilling works great with sharp inserts, even with TTS. I use a number of "M100 DEX" APKT-insert (Iscar clone) cutters for various jobs. Most of these I can use with TTS, drawbar and all, since they seem to result in limited axial tool forces.
Profiling with helical mills in steel is another story entirely. I essentially cannot use TTS for profile roughing; I switch to solid R8 toolholders and remove my drawbar springs and replace them with a rigid bushing of equivalent dimension. Then I tighten up the drawbar nice and firm by hand, along with dropping the belt to low gear.
I've heard that variable-helix and other non-uniform flute profiles also help a lot, by reducing harmonics, but I'm still working through a large stock of cheap plain HSS cutters, and most of the modified-geometry mills are expensive and almost always made of carbide. If anybody has a lead on reasonbly-priced HSS cutters with variable helix or such, I'd love to hear about them.

[TurboStep]

While its tempting to try tooling from alternative manufacturers I've come to the conclusion that although Tormach tools may not be the cheapest, and there may be better tools on the market, they are probably the best suited to the mill and its capabilities. My latest batch of Tormach tools and holders arrived just yesterday.

It's generally accepted that you can't have too many tool holders but its difficult for someone to say which tools you should buy. Usually I only find out what I should have bought when I see which tools have stayed in drawer the longest! This is how it turned out for me but its not exactly mainstream so I expect that most people would disagree, however....

I bought the TTS Metric Set but the majority of the holders don't see any use. I thought I would use set screw holders for roughing and ER20 holders for finishing. As it tuned out the only rougher I use in a set screw holder is a 1/2" and I had to order this holder separately. Almost all of my end mills are inch because decent tooling in my part of the world costs an arm and a leg, so I buy from the US. Being inch they don't fit well in the metric set screw holders and they don't have flats either. I know from this forum that lots of people use set screw holders successfully and maybe even exclusively, but personally I prefer ER20 holders and I have no problems with them pushing a 3/8" rougher through Alu.

I like the Digital Height Gauge and have all of my tools set up in the tool table. Changing drills in drill chucks between jobs therefore messes things up so I agree with DiverBob about keeping the most commonly used drills setup. However, for the price of a drill chuck and adapter you can get 2 or 3 of the "cheap" Chinese ER20 holders with cheap collets as covered by another thread on the zone. This an exception to my first statement but don't be put off by the "cheap" label. They are actually nicely made and the runout is definitely better than what I get with my drill chucks (I don't have an ATC). I bought a total of 8 Tormach drill chucks but use only one to hold a spring-loaded tap guide, the rest sit in the drawer!
Other than for the occasional pipe threads I use thread milling exclusively, from 2mm on up. It should come as no surprise that I also use ER20 holders for the thread mills.

If I were to start again, I would buy the contents of the Tormach metric set as separate items but with ER20 holders instead of the set screw holders. It won't hurt to have a few drill chucks but I would also add a batch of Chinese ER20 holders. This way, even if I would have decided to go the set screw direction later, I'm sure that would still have been able to use all the ER20 holders for something.

Just my 2 cents
Step

[GJeff]

Just need to use the right tooling on the 1100...That means Solid Tool holder...No TTS...

attached photo shows a Iscar T290 FLN-10 90° Face Mills with T290 LNMT 1004...
1 1/4 dia 5 inserts.
1 1/4 woc.
3/16 doc
750 RPM
.8 hp
3 ipm.
materail 17-4
Load meter 45%
This set of inserts already has about 10 hours of tool life...My guess about 14 hours of use before change...

With a pile of chips like that your way covers must be chewed to hell unless they're constantly cleaned or modded. Do you have that extra flap protector that tormach sells or any other way cover mods? I'm looking into modding mine to make them less likely to be damaged by chips.

[wwendorf]

I think I have about 30 tool holders. The most that I use are 3/8" set screw holders. I have the 770 as well, and I love it! It's a fantastic mill. I did a tormach suggested mod and actually got another .7" of travel on my X axis. I can now do up to a 14.25" wide part without a problem. Believe me, I'm VERY happy with that extra .7".

I have 2 er20 collet holders, about 20 3/8", 4 1/2" and 4 1/4" holders. I usually use endmills that have a 3/8" shank, so that's why I have so many 3/8" holders.

The 770 works on just about any material. I'm very happy with it so far. Of course I would have liked the 1100, but honestly, I'd have never gotten it to fit in my space. I have a 10.5' x 11.5' shop, and I have a cnc lathe, 770, 16 x 42 wood lathe, 8 x 12 manual metal lathe and a workbench in that space. I don't have anymore room for an 1100. If all goes well and I get myself a larger shop in the near future, then I will seriously consider an 1100.

Wade

[thuss]

Thanks to everyone for their help.

I am still thinking 770 as space and machine weight are big issues for me.

I have done some searching for metric tooling with flats and it looks like there is not much available in either Aus or USA. Does anyone no a good source for these or should I consider moving away from metric for all tooling (not preferred) or just using er collets?

What are everyone's thoughts on tormach tapping heads? Is it worthwhile going for the modular tapping head kit, the er20 tapping heads or something else?

Thanks again

[TurboStep]

I'd like more space in my workshop but I decided that I needed the travel and the price difference wasn't an issue considering how much I've now invested in total.

I design everything in metric so it appeared to be a no brainer to use metric tooling. Only when I had actually started using my first 1/8" end mill did i realize that it doesn't make any difference what so ever. For me they're just 3.175mm or 9.525mm tools. I just set the diameter in metric and forget it.
Obviously using collets leaves your options open to a degree, but good collets aren't giveaways either.

I initially considered the modular tapping head kit but then decided to go for a Floating Tap Tool Holder from Maritool. This was well before Tormach released their TTS Tension/Compression tapping heads. However, I've never got around to using it because I discovered how easy thread milling is. It's still nice to know its there just in case I might need it, and of course its also ER20
By the way, I never considered buying any ER16 holders although some people appear to mix sizes. I've never yet needed a smaller diameter holder and according to Murphy it would only be a question of time before I had a spare ER16 collet for a new tool but only free ER20 holders (or the other way around).
I may be slightly unconventional but I don't think it ever hurts to hear what others may doing differently (not better, not worse, just different)...
Step

[tbaker2500]

I have done some searching for metric tooling with flats and it looks like there is not much available in either Aus or USA.

The bit doesn't need a flat to be used in the set screw holder. I use 1/2 carbide EM's full slotting quite heavy, and never had a slip in the holder. Same with 1/4".

[BAMCNC.COM]

With a pile of chips like that your way covers must be chewed to hell unless they're constantly cleaned or modded. Do you have that extra flap protector that tormach sells or any other way cover mods? I'm looking into modding mine to make them less likely to be damaged by chips.

Look on eBay for Rubber mat, much cheaper.

[David Bord]

As mentioned already. Invest in the TTS system.

I would also advise buying inexpensive HSS EM and get a good feeds and speeds calculator like G-wizard. Unless you are a savant at CNC, you will destroy lots of bits ramping. I took the long road, and really didn't start to get it until I purchased a good calculator like mentioned above.

David

[BAMCNC.COM]

Or a 1 time fee for HSM Advisor that guarantees no broken endmills. FSwizard is also FREE

[C*H*U*D]

I am still thinking 770 as space and machine weight are big issues for me.

I considered the 1100 but went with the 770 for this very reason. I have my 770 in the basement, so in my case bigger did not mean better. Good luck with your machine.

[wwendorf]

Even if your tools don't have flats, a little touch on a tool with the grinder will give you more than enough of a flat to use a setscrew holder with.

Wade

[nitewatchman]

Even if your tools don't have flats, a little touch on a tool with the grinder will give you more than enough of a flat to use a setscrew holder with.

Wade

I have never had a problem with smooth shank cutters slipping in set-screw holders, neither Cat-40's, Cat-50's, Cat-60's, R-8's nor TTS. Have had a bit of an issue with the TTS pulling down on heavy cuts especially if there is any chatter involved. I view the flat on the cutter shank as something that is mentally stablizing, doesn't do much but makes you feel a whole lot better about it.

Can't hurt to flat the shank if you have a wheel that can do it, but I think that you will be fine without it.

nitewatchman

[thuss]

Thanks again to everyone for their advice.