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IndustryArena Forum > MetalWorking Machines > South Bend Machinery > SB 8K and 10K, is there any reliable information how they perform?
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  1. #1
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    SB 8K and 10K, is there any reliable information how they perform?

    Hi all,

    we all know that there are two new "South Bend [labeled]" benchtop machines out there, the 8K and the bigger 10K and we all know that one is from China (8K) and the other one is from Taiwan (10K).
    However there seems little to no information about these machines out there. I found definitely some threads (three I think ) where people stated that they had bought or ordered the SB 1001 8K. Some send a couple of pictures, but none of them posted his experience so far. There are no "unpacking" videos on youtube, no reviews on Amazon (both are on their web site) which is a kind of strange. It seems that only a handfull of people has an 8K and don't wanna talk about his experience... and there is no evidence that at least one 10K was sold until today.
    There are a bunch of discussions about both machines, the majority only based on the specs. Almost none of the participants had really seen either one of them or even physically touched them. So the information in these threads is only limited helpfull in terms of decision making wether to buy one or not.
    It would be really helpfull, If I could find someone, who really owns one of these machines and is willing to share his experience.

    Appreciate any input..

    Thanks,
    Chris

  2. #2
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    The problem you have is that few post to forums to begin with. In otherwords many interested in machining technology don't use the web or use it infrequently, further fewer post on CNCzone. So it s hard to say how well the product is taking off. I think a grand total of two have commented in these forums that they have purchased the lathes.

    Quote Originally Posted by pilotarix View Post
    Hi all,

    we all know that there are two new "South Bend [labeled]" benchtop machines out there, the 8K and the bigger 10K and we all know that one is from China (8K) and the other one is from Taiwan (10K).
    Actually that is the first I've heard of origins. Not that it really maters as you can't make an assumption on quality based on county of origin. Many of the low quality complaints about hardware from China is a direct result hardware being built for a price point. Conversely there is a high resistance to paying for quality in some markets.
    However there seems little to no information about these machines out there. I found definitely some threads (three I think ) where people stated that they had bought or ordered the SB 1001 8K. Some send a couple of pictures, but none of them posted his experience so far. There are no "unpacking" videos on youtube, no reviews on Amazon (both are on their web site) which is a kind of strange. It seems that only a handfull of people has an 8K and don't wanna talk about his experience... and there is no evidence that at least one 10K was sold until today.
    The vast majority of machinist out there are not really the social and communicative animal that you imagine. It is far more rewarding for many of use to use our shops.
    There are a bunch of discussions about both machines, the majority only based on the specs. Almost none of the participants had really seen either one of them or even physically touched them. So the information in these threads is only limited helpfull in terms of decision making wether to buy one or not.
    If you don't own one all you have is the specs to go on. As for touching one I've done that at the Grizzly store, in my estimation it is a higher uality machine compared to say a run of the mill 9x20.
    It would be really helpfull, If I could find someone, who really owns one of these machines and is willing to share his experience.
    This is the classic chicken and the egg problem. In depth reviews require one to have a machine to review.
    Appreciate any input..

    Thanks,
    Chris
    Buy one and post the type if review you want to see! Seriously this is the only way to get the ball rolling.

    As to the small lathe it has been on sale for some time now, that tells me sales are terrible considering this is a new product. Why this might be so is unknown. There is a perception that the machine is expensive for its size but thatis highly debatable. The lathe actually comes with some interesting features that are very hard to come buy in a lathe of that size. If it was around ten users ago when I got my 9x20 I might have gone that route instead. This especially in retrospect as the quality of the 9x20 is a bit wanting.

    As for Grizzly and its reintroduction of the SouthBend nameplate I think they missed an opportunity here. They really should have focused on a line of CNC machines in these size classes. With today electronic hardware and the deleted mechanics for manual operation, an affordable small CNC would be very doable.

  3. #3
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    Hi all

    Wizard, thanks for your answer!

    Quote Originally Posted by wizard View Post
    ............

    Actually that is the first I've heard of origins. Not that it really maters as you can't make an assumption on quality based on county of origin. Many of the low quality complaints about hardware from China is a direct result hardware being built for a price point. Conversely there is a high resistance to paying for quality in some markets.
    I agree, the chinese are not stupid, they deliver exactly the quality they can sell with a good margin. The problem is more on the buyers side where the often questionable quality is being accepted. There are people who are not able to purchase the highest quality. But you are right, there is certainly a kind of resistence in a lot of people to spend additional money for a higher quality product at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by wizard View Post
    The vast majority of machinist out there are not really the social and communicative animal that you imagine. It is far more rewarding for many of use to use our shops.
    I think I meant that a little sarcastic, because almost everything gets "unpacked" on youtube in our days. I am well aware that the average (hobby) machinist might not be so communicative.


    Quote Originally Posted by wizard View Post
    .......

    Buy one and post the type if review you want to see! Seriously this is the only way to get the ball rolling.

    As to the small lathe it has been on sale for some time now, that tells me sales are terrible considering this is a new product. Why this might be so is unknown.......

    Not for long....

    I just ordered one and hope there is no real good reason behind it. The machine fits perfectly for my needs, especially in size and weight as well as spindle bore and variable speed. And I have seen it in Muncy in the Grizzly show room twice. The look and feel was better than the same size other machines. Sure, that gives you no information about precision and at the end of the day precision is what counts. Who cares whether a machine is nice or not, if it only produces junk.

    However, it looks like I will have this experience.

    I will keep you updated!

    Thanks,
    Chris

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    Quote Originally Posted by pilotarix View Post
    Hi all

    Wizard, thanks for your answer!
    No problem! Maybe this thread will prompt a few actual owners to speak up.


    I agree, the chinese are not stupid, they deliver exactly the quality they can sell with a good margin. The problem is more on the buyers side where the often questionable quality is being accepted. There are people who are not able to purchase the highest quality. But you are right, there is certainly a kind of resistence in a lot of people to spend additional money for a higher quality product at all.
    From what I've seen so far the new Grizzly/Southbends are a much higher quality lathe than Grizxlys usual offerings. From what I can see the price being asked right now, that is the sale price, makes them an excellent bargain.


    I think I meant that a little sarcastic, because almost everything gets "unpacked" on youtube in our days. I am well aware that the average (hobby) machinist might not be so communicative.
    Not really! I think the unpacking videos are mostly done by technology geeks in show off mode. Many products never get a YouTube unpacking video.




    Not for long....

    I just ordered one and hope there is no real good reason behind it.
    Well we will be waiting for your reports.
    The machine fits perfectly for my needs, especially in size and weight as well as spindle bore and variable speed.
    If this machine was available back when I got my 9x20 there is a very good chance that I would have spent a bit extra on this SouthBend. The spindle bore, variable speed drive and the spindle nose are all valuable features. The only thing that perplexes me is why Grizzly didn't put a 5C capable spindle in this machine. They could have cornered the market for a small 5C capable lathe.
    And I have seen it in Muncy in the Grizzly show room twice. The look and feel was better than the same size other machines.
    I stop every year at the Grizzly store on my way back from Cabin Fever, I will likely do so again. Visual inspection of the machine does seem to indicate a much higher quality. In general it is pretty robust for its size.
    Sure, that gives you no information about precision and at the end of the day precision is what counts. Who cares whether a machine is nice or not, if it only produces junk.
    Precision is as much a issue with the machinist as it is with the machine. However I have to agree that a well built machine goes a very long ways in help with precision.
    However, it looks like I will have this experience.

    I will keep you updated!

    Thanks,
    Chris
    Sadly it looks like Grizzly has done to itself what it has done to the former SouthBend and other lathe makers. It has convinced people that machine tools should be cheap and that quality isn't worth the extra money. I could see this model being discontinued because people don't grasp the value in it.

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    No problem! Maybe this thread will prompt a few actual owners to speak up.
    I was hoping…

    Many products never get a YouTube unpacking video.
    You are probably right, maybe I have seen too much of them in the past, so I am overestimating that a little bit. However, some of them are really good, and in times where a lot of stuff can be bought over the internet they can be helpfull in decision making.
    I could do one with the 8k… hahaha..

    Precision is as much a issue with the machinist as it is with the machine.
    I agree… so I am somewhere between "beginner" and "intermediate". I learnt to be "somewhat" precise on my MiniLathe, which wasn't that easy especially in harder material. Anyhow I hope, I will improve my work with new machine.
    Sadly it looks like Grizzly has done to itself what it has done to the former SouthBend and other lathe makers. It has convinced people that machine tools should be cheap and that quality isn't worth the extra money.
    Sadly or not, now it seems they are getting their comeuppance for that. But it wasn't Grizzly alone and even if Grizzly try to turn around and advocate for more quality tools, there are a bunch of competitors, who had misused and is still misusing the term "high precision" far to often for something that is basically junk. People got brainwashed and in the meanwhile the believe it. That's what's sad.
    I don't wanna blame people for buying low quality stuff because that's what they can afford. Just tell them the truth.

  6. #6
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    People got brainwashed and in the meanwhile the believe it. That's what's sad.
    I don't wanna blame people for buying low quality stuff because that's what they can afford. Just tell them the truth.
    That sums it up, just be honest about what you are selling. Something like these Southbends should be fully specified so that the potential purchaser knows what to expect from the machine. Further a fully speced machine goes a long ways towards separating this lathe from the run of the mill machines they offer. Sadly Grizzly doesn't market the machine much differently that its far cheaper machines, thus it is hard to deduce where the exta value is.

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    As I came home tonight UPS Freight had dropped this box in the garage...and it exactly looked like they dropped it. Anyhow, I hope that I will have some time during the weekend to move it into the basement and take a closer look.

    Attachment 181528

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    The weekend, how dare you. Work late tonight and call in sick tomorrow. ;

    Quote Originally Posted by pilotarix View Post
    As I came home tonight UPS Freight had dropped this box in the garage...and it exactly looked like they dropped it. Anyhow, I hope that I will have some time during the weekend to move it into the basement and take a closer look.

    Attachment 181528

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    I'm a little late responding to this, but in case it is still a topic of interest, I'll give you my experience. I have owned the SB1001 8K for about 9 months and have had very good results. I have small engineering business and have a need for a decent amount of prototype work, mostly bushing and the like. A lot of aluminum, but some high carbon steel and a little tool steel. I've got well over 100 hours of use out of it now and the performance beat my expectations. The motor controls are a pleasure to use, with rapid pickup and braking so it responds very quickly. The 3 jaw chuck had a very small amount of run-out, about .0015 if I recall and the jaws are very snug. Fit and finish is excellent and it does not appear anything like the old stereotype Chinese product.

    I turned down a foot long length of carbon steel and it achieved less than .0015 taper over the entire 12" length. Not too shabby I think; especially given it was high carbon steel and there was surely some spring to it. And that was right out of the crate; I've done no alignment on it at all. Gearing and other mechanicals are high quality and well made.

    On the negative side, if you are going to cut threads, it is not the fastest gear change process; and there is no cross threading or much in the way of additional tooling. The shifting from high to low speed takes about a minute, but I have only had to do this once. I had some headaches early on with lubrication, and I replaced the zerks on the spindle with oil cups and I recommend that, as spindle oil is difficult to get into a grease fittings. Very odd design, but easily corrected.

    Overall, this is a very capable machine for making low volume precision parts. I have no regrets, other than thinking I should have gone for the 10K instead.

  10. #10
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    Re: SB 8K and 10K, is there any reliable information how they perform?

    I received the 8K. I ran it at 50rpm for about 40sec.. loud spindle noise noted. I pulled spindle , found bad bearings and scared spindle. I am very unhappy. I intend on sending lathe back to grizzly. Dont want it in my shop. I would consider 10k, but, can find no review on it. Can any one lead me to a good lathe from grizzly.

  11. #11
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    Re: SB 8K and 10K, is there any reliable information how they perform?

    Quote Originally Posted by pilotarix View Post
    ... we all know that one is from China (8K) and the other one is from Taiwan (10K)....
    I thought the 8K was made in Taiwan... escaped my notice that one of the SB machines was made in China. Unfortunate; it is a sweet looking little machine, and received some good reviews on other forums.

    Too bad the purchaser above got a bad one. For the price (and with the name brand), you would think their QC would be a cut above the other machines. Grizzly will make it right, they are known for good CS.
    Tim
    Tormach 1100-3, Grizzly G0709 lathe, Clausing 8520 mill, SolidWorks, HSMWorks.

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    Re: SB 8K and 10K, is there any reliable information how they perform?

    Quote Originally Posted by pilotarix View Post
    As I came home tonight UPS Freight had dropped this box in the garage...and it exactly looked like they dropped it. Anyhow, I hope that I will have some time during the weekend to move it into the basement and take a closer look.
    I'm new here so I'm in the poking around stage but noticed you have an sb1001 which is one of the lathes I'm interested in. I was hoping to see what you thought of it. Hopefully I'm not opening any old wounds by asking because of your comments about the UPS "drop" shipment, so hopefully everything is good. Back to poking around...

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