[johnohara]

Hi Luiz~

Your contribution to this website would be beneficial to every member. Thank you for posting.

I have watched the majority of your videos on youtube, some multiple times, and learned something each time. Frankly, the best ones are when the production is simple -- with subtitles and the bird in the background. The quality of your work transcends any language issues you feel exist.

Looking forward to your posts.

~johnohara

[Tryally]

Thank you so much for the kind words John.
It is inspiring and a pleasure to me as well.
All the best.
Luiz

[handlewanker]

Hi, just like the day after the end of the honeymoon, buying a hobby mill on a stretched budget does make you wish you had waited for "Miss Right" or the ultimate mill in a budget package to come along, but in the real world it doesn't happen that way.

The only recourse is to sell the offending package for the next best price on EBAY and make someone else's day who knows what they are getting for the money and will love it dearly, and "re-invest" in a mill that has all the bells and whistles that you should have listed as the most must have features to buy......after having pawned the family jewels to get there.

Crying over spilt milk is for babies......sympathy and all that offered........but cut your losses, move onto another mill build, but now with the knowledge that there are certain features that you MUST HAVE......no compromise, end of story.

I expect if a sell off price was hinted at the poster would get some offers.

Second hand cars are always sold off this way.
Ian.

[acannell]

Hi, just like the day after the end of the honeymoon, buying a hobby mill on a stretched budget does make you wish you had waited for "Miss Right" or the ultimate mill in a budget package to come along, but in the real world it doesn't happen that way.

The only recourse is to sell the offending package for the next best price on EBAY and make someone else's day who knows what they are getting for the money and will love it dearly, and "re-invest" in a mill that has all the bells and whistles that you should have listed as the most must have features to buy......after having pawned the family jewels to get there.

Crying over spilt milk is for babies......sympathy and all that offered........but cut your losses, move onto another mill build, but now with the knowledge that there are certain features that you MUST HAVE......no compromise, end of story.

I expect if a sell off price was hinted at the poster would get some offers.

Second hand cars are always sold off this way.
Ian.

you guys are trying to paint me as either someone who spent too much money on the Sherline and regrets it, or someone who shouldn't have bought a Sherline in the first place. both are wrong. I love my Sherline. I challenge anyone to find someone cutting at a higher rate on the sherline, I'm the Sherline 5400 CNC's number 1 fan. It was a fantastic machine to learn on and allowed me to go from never having machined anything to being able to operate a full size fadal vmc at work and get paid to make production parts in less than 4 months. The skill set translates so directly its amazing. Ive spent some time maxing out the sherlines capabilities and made a fully enclosed flood coolant system with it. I also got the machine for only $1200, so it was a great deal. There is not an ounce of regret for any of it, and there is no way I could have done it any other way. I could not have spent even $3000 on a mill, it just wouldn't have happened at the time. The sherline was the only way. I am attacking SHERLINE MANAGEMENT.

When I see the sherline desperately needing things like better backlash adjustment, ballscrews, or more rigidity, and I see sherline coming out with a $3500 CAM GRINDING ACCESSORY I question what the management over there is thinking. Seems they dont have an issue with development costs and financial risk, especially when the upgrades I'm suggesting would have far less cost and risk than the ones they take on silly stuff like this.

Regardless, I have outgrown the sherline at this point, even if it did have the upgrades Id like, and Im going for a full size VMC or possibly a mini mill right now, because at some point in the last few months I crossed the line where I could make more money with a bigger mill than the bigger mill would cost, in a few months. So my sherline setup is for sale as soon as I get the bigger mill. Ill be sad to see it go.

The arguments about me whining or *****ing are ridiculous and amount to nothing more than fan boy hurt feelings, which is ironic because I've probably made more parts and pushed the sherline far further than any of you people telling me I shouldn't be complaining. Companies improve their products all the time to meet customer expectations. Sherline wouldn't be the first tone-deaf tool maker to go out of business because they lost sight of their customer base or didnt keep up. Today's generation of tinkerers, if thats what you think Sherline's base is, are going the 3D printer route or 3D cnc router route (pun intended), and arent going to get their hands dirty on a CNC mill. They want instant gratification and I think in 2013 a company like Sherline can get the bugs out of the machine and make it significantly better without it being a major undertaking.

If instead, you think Sherline's base is industrial or professional users, then all my upgrades are critical, and we are being ignored.

[acannell]

Thank you so much for the kind words John.
It is inspiring and a pleasure to me as well.
All the best.
Luiz

Id like to see your gib and antibacklash upgrade! I dont have facebook. Do you have a thread on here showing it? How much are they? I'm probably going to have the sherline for a few more months and I could get alot more done if I didnt have to deal with those issues.

[awerby]

Where did you find the precision zero-backlash ballscrews and nuts for $100 each? Usually, cheap ballscrews introduce more problems than they solve, but finding good ones for that price might make a retrofit feasible. Of course, machining the ends to fit the Sherline would add expense, which would need to be figured in. Do the nuts fit the Sherline as is, or would excavation be required to make them work?

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

[acannell]

Where did you find the precision zero-backlash ballscrews and nuts for $100 each? Usually, cheap ballscrews introduce more problems than they solve, but finding good ones for that price might make a retrofit feasible. Of course, machining the ends to fit the Sherline would add expense, which would need to be figured in. Do the nuts fit the Sherline as is, or would excavation be required to make them work?

Andrew Werby
ComputerSculpture.com ? Home Page for Discount Hardware & Software

the idea is more that if they can be found at that price retail, then a company like sherline can incorporate them into their mill, instead of spending time and resources on things like $3500 cam grinders. regarding ballscrew quality, even a ballscrew with some issues would be better than a leadscrew and the tedious, repetitive dance you have to play with gibs and backlash on the sherline as-is. check out ebay for the ballscrews. actually i am only suggesting ballscrews as a way to eliminate the backlash issues. if there is a way to do that without going to ballscrews, id call that a win.

[bjones]

gee that cam grinder is really cool, it's easy to see why they offer it, good job sherline.

[Fastest1]

If you need a cam, you are happy Sherline makes a grinder.

[awerby]

acannell wrote:

"the idea is more that if they can be found at that price retail, then a company like sherline can incorporate them into their mill, instead of spending time and resources on things like $3500 cam grinders."

[Evidently they found and responded to a demand for a relatively small and inexpensive cam grinder - just because you don't need one doesn't mean that nobody does. The company, despite your headline, is alive and doing well.]

"regarding ballscrew quality, even a ballscrew with some issues would be better than a leadscrew and the tedious, repetitive dance you have to play with gibs and backlash on the sherline as-is. check out ebay for the ballscrews."

[There are ballscrews that can be found cheaply on Ebay, but they aren't something a reputable company would want to include in their product. Either they are some kind of surplus that's only available in limited quantities, or they are screws intended for such things as opening windows, not precision applications. They often suffer from "thread drunkenness" which means that a given number of revolutions of the screw doesn't correspond with an advance of the nut to any particular point. So when you think you're going to, say, 1.500", you could actually be anywhere between 1.450" and 1.550". This doesn't matter when you're opening a skylight, but it matters a lot when you're trying to machine something to particular dimensions. Precision-ground ballscrews are expensive to produce, and a set of them, with nuts, balls, and the required end-preparation, can cost more than the rest of a Sherline mill.]

actually i am only suggesting ballscrews as a way to eliminate the backlash issues.

[It's a popular misconception that installing ballscrews eliminates backlash. But all ballscrews aren't inherently free from that. It takes special preloading or double nuts to eliminate backlash from a ballscrew; if that's not done they're no better than any other kind of screw and can be much worse than precisely made leadscrews like the ones used by Sherline. The only inherent advantage that ballscrews have over acme-type screws is a reduction in friction.]

if there is a way to do that without going to ballscrews, id call that a win.

[There are other ways of eliminating backlash; the most common is a spring-loaded nut. But their main disadvantage is that the spring force can be overpowered by cutting forces, so you get the backlash back when you least expect it. They also take up more space and reduce the travels of the axes they're installed on.]

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

[acannell]

sigh...so sherline should continue to pursuit $3500 cam grinders and $400 rotary tables instead of improving the basic functionality of their machine in certain areas where its desperately needed? oh, and ballscrews shouldnt be used. thats youre arguement? how do you get anything done with this kind of logic?

whether or not ballscrews are the solution to the sherline backlash issues, your comments on them are irrelevant generalities. obviously they are used on any reasonable CNC machine, and they are available retail, single quantity, with nuts, at a price that makes them reasonable to add to a $1500 mill, or as an upgrade at additional cost versus the leadscrews. (i wasnt suggesting sherline literally buy the ones off ebay and use them in their machines...you didnt really think that right?). so "thread drunkeness" and all the made up stuff about them being too expensive or too difficult or too this or that is nonsense.

as far as sherlines condition as a business, for all you know they could be bankrupt tomorrow, or making record profits. at least im making an arguement about it. you're just making stuff up. a common theme on this forum, ive noticed.

[TiagoSantos]

Awerby, don't feed the troll!

[p38nut]

sigh...so sherline should continue to pursuit $3500 cam grinders and $400 rotary tables instead of improving the basic functionality of their machine in certain areas where its desperately needed? oh, and ballscrews shouldnt be used. thats youre arguement? how do you get anything done with this kind of logic?

whether or not ballscrews are the solution to the sherline backlash issues, your comments on them are irrelevant generalities. obviously they are used on any reasonable CNC machine, and they are available retail, single quantity, with nuts, at a price that makes them reasonable to add to a $1500 mill, or as an upgrade at additional cost versus the leadscrews. (i wasnt suggesting sherline literally buy the ones off ebay and use them in their machines...you didnt really think that right?). so "thread drunkeness" and all the made up stuff about them being too expensive or too difficult or too this or that is nonsense.

as far as sherlines condition as a business, for all you know they could be bankrupt tomorrow, or making record profits. at least im making an arguement about it. you're just making stuff up. a common theme on this forum, ive noticed.

This guy just wants to argue for arguements sake!! acannell please PI$$ off

[handlewanker]

Awerby, don't feed the troll!

Well I for one will reinforce the argument that if you want to go CNC you NEED ballscrews.......anything else is a cheap compromise, (cheap and nasty ballscrews are too), and you're just fooling yourself.

The ballscrew is the very heart of the machine and makes it what CNC is all about.......it determines the accuracy of the part and if you go cheap in this department you are forever having the ballscrew on your wishlist.

This is in the same category as buying an expensive DSLR camera and fitting it to the cheapest lens in the market.

No matter how many megapixels you have, the cheap lens will not give you photos to wow over.

I expect in the case of the Sherline, the extra cost to make it fly would put it above the comparable price of the competition, and if they have ballscrews too then Sherline won't sell many of their products with the same specs for a higher price........most people who only see the bottom line couldn't understand the specification list unless it was explained to them, but if they did and ignored the specs, more fool them for being tight.
Ian.

[handlewanker]

LOL......just re-read the last few posts....."even a ballscrew with issues is better than a leadscrew".......interpreted means a ballscrew in poor condition or badly made is better than an Acme threaded leadscrew with spring loaded bronze nuts in good condition.

In the first instance you are overdue for a ballscrew replacement, that is if your machine is fitted with a ballscrew and it has gone bad and in no way would you consider tolerating the results that a worn or cheap crap ballscrew would give you.

The same could be said for a hobby mill with an Acme thread and bronze nut that has backlash that just can't be totally eliminated, but replacing it with some junk sale ballscrew that has long ago ceased to work properly is not an answer to your problem.....a poor man always pays twice in that case.
Ian.

[handlewanker]

Specifically aimed at Barb37shaw...........judging by your posts .....ON THIS FORUM......you don't have much to contribute in the way of intelligent thought, and one liners are not intelligent thought......anyone who has to express themselves with silly pictures needs professional help or after hours supplementary education assistance.

I notice that you have just arrived as a poster.....that makes you a potential spammer and will be reported.

If you have a disability and your mind is not functioning as it should, I apologise....everyone makes a bad move sometime in their life when they are out of touch with reality.
Ian.

[JRouche]

Hey folks. Spam is not aloud. But continuous talk about it really doesn't help either. If you see a post that might be contrary to the well being of the topic, or an out right violation of the agreed upon rules please refrain from talking about it in the open forums. Bring it to the attention of a Moderator. There are members that dont like to wade through the people bashing. It inhibits constructive talk. JR

[wizard]

sigh...so sherline should continue to pursuit $3500 cam grinders and $400 rotary tables instead of improving the basic functionality of their machine in certain areas where its desperately needed? oh, and ballscrews shouldnt be used. thats youre arguement? how do you get anything done with this kind of logic?

If the cam grinder is something that sells why not? I can't honestly say I'm all that impressed with it from pictures on Sherlines web site. However here is the key point, it looks like a machine that could do exactly what many model engine machinist would want and probably more than a few machinist that have nothing to do with model engines. I really don't understand the need to knock the cam grinder or the rotary table for that matter.

As for ball screws they are part of a decent CNC machine, along with ball screws there are linear slides to complete the machine. However for Sherline to offer such a machine, that is a well designed miniature CNC machine, they have to be willing to completely redesign the machine. That is fine but then you have to consider real world demand for such a miniature CNC machines.

whether or not ballscrews are the solution to the sherline backlash issues, your comments on them are irrelevant generalities. obviously they are used on any reasonable CNC machine, and they are available retail, single quantity, with nuts, at a price that makes them reasonable to add to a $1500 mill, or as an upgrade at additional cost versus the leadscrews.

I think this is the problem you don't grasp, high quality ball screws are expensive relative to the cost of a Sherline.

(i wasnt suggesting sherline literally buy the ones off ebay and use them in their machines...you didnt really think that right?). so "thread drunkeness" and all the made up stuff about them being too expensive or too difficult or too this or that is nonsense.

Well go out and source a zero backlash ground ball screw with guaranteed error over the length likely to be used in a Sherline. They aren't cheap. You might say well let's go with a rolled ball screw and then you would have to admit that lead errors are unacceptable in a machine like a Sheline trying to achieve high precision on very small parts.

as far as sherlines condition as a business, for all you know they could be bankrupt tomorrow, or making record profits. at least im making an arguement about it. you're just making stuff up. a common theme on this forum, ive noticed.

Look in a mirror buddy! You make unfounded assertions that lead screws suitable for a miniature CNC lathe are cheap. They aren't. Go to a vendor of high precision ground ball screws and spec out a set of lead screws suitable for CNCing a Sherline Mill or Lathe. They will be very expensive relative the current lead screws and nuts. Plus to get the best out of those lead screws they would have to rework the thrust bearings and end caps.

Beyond all of that if you wanted to make a ground up Miniature CNC lathe it would look substantially different than today's Sherline.

[DICKEYBIRD]

The issue with ballscrews on a Sherline is moot. There simply isn't enough room to install "normal" (reasonably priced) b/screws in the available space. The existing brass nuts are installed in 3/8" holes (or thereabouts) in the base & cross-slide with very little distance between them (vertically). Ball-nuts with a 3/8"/10mm O.D.? I found listings for 5mm b/screws with 10mm O.D. nuts but only in 61mm(!) lengths on special order. I'm still a'lookin' but I'm thinking they'd be astronomically priced if they're available.

I'm wrestling with this exact issue with my little Denford CNC MicroMill (Sherline mill) but will probably give up on b/screws and try the Ron Ginger Moglice method. One could re-engineer (hew out of solid blocks) the base & cross-slide to give more room for screws.

[handlewanker]

Hi, the end result of all the planning is that you can't run in a F1 race with a VW Beetle, no matter how good the tyres are.

I have to wonder why anyone would want to start at the bottom end of the machinery market and attempt to do a retrofit to make the mill perform like a Tormach etc.

With a $1,500 starting price you'd be over the $2,500 outlay just to get a retrofit that does not perform as expected.

I have to wonder, with the market desire for a small CNC mill, using the small mill envelope as a starting point, why Sherline don't make a CNC right from the beginning, based on the manual mill but not directly from it......they would sell more CNC mini mills than manual mini mills or cam grinders.

On the other hand, Sherline knows it's a waste of time and resources attempting to make a mini CNC mill when you really need something bigger in the first place, and something that will perform as a CNC mill without the drawbacks of fraility that retrofitted mini mills exhibit constantly.

In my opinion, and for what it's worth, anything smaller than a 770 Tormach is like going to the dance in tee shirt and thongs....LOL......no matter if it's just to make a few parts for an obscure hobby where CNC gives you a buzz but does not justify the cost.
Ian.