[a67429]

So I finally found a mill in my (low) price range and should be picking it up this weekend. The seller claims its in excellent shape, is under power and will demo of for me before we load it on the trailer. It is a Shizuoka AN-S with a GN-6 control. The pics that he sent out the machine look excellent, and his shop is spotless so I'm hoping this goes well, and that the thing fits in my garage without cutting a hole in the ceiling.

I'm totally new to actually operating a machine like this so any help would be great. Where would I find parts when needed, anything in particular to look out for on this machine, etc.. Even though this this thing is gonna cost less than a quarter of a cnc'd PM45, should I fork out the extra 5k for one of those just because its new? Although the PM45 is likely a much better fit for the real estate available in my two car garage.

Ultimately the machine is just gonna be used for hobby work and maybe some gunsmithing, but I do want to be able to cut steels and perhaps play around d with some titanium once I get the hang of things.

He said that he does feed it programs from his laptop into the rs232 port on the control, but the control only has 10k? of memory. I'm hoping there is a cost effective way to run larger programs on it. Can I drip feed this control? Will mach3 be able to talk to it? I didn't get into the details too much with him over the phone about that side of how he's doing it.

He did say the only problem he's encountered with the machine is that the X axis will briefly pause sometimes and then continue on. Is this something that could just be a loose connection, or something much more serious to look out for?

Otherwise he states that it is totally smooth with no abnormal noises or issues, and is ready to run code right away.

[underthetire]

X axis problem is most likely a tuning issue. Control is probably waiting for an in position before continuing. Mach3 will do you no good unless you do a retrofit. You should be able to drip feed, if it has the old paper tape reader on it, should be good to go. The ANS will cut anything you stick in it. Pretty heavy mill for that type.

[a67429]

From the poking around the net I've been doing the past couple hours, I'm thinking that I will want to retrofit the machine to be directly PC controlled, once I get it up and running first. The thought of tricking the control into DNC at such low baud rates doesn't sound fun, nor does the data starvation associated with it. Watching an 80's machine wait for data from an already out dated 90's PC sounds painful...god knows my cell phone now has the power to run a 5 axis machine easy....while I watch a movie on it.

[a67429]

So I'm scheduled to go pick this thing up tomorrow morning, but am suddenly having doubt about it fitting though the doorway of my garage. The opening is only 82.5" tall, but once inside the ceiling height is 99", so I'm guessing that I will have to remove the drawbar and spindle motor at least to get it inside.

Is removing the spindle motor very difficult? Does anyone have the procedure of how to do it properly?

While I could remove the entire ram, I'm not so sure about how I would get it back on once inside the garage.

[a67429]

Well I got the thing home, although the crane isn't supposed to be here for a few more hours to lift it off the trailer. Having it right outside the garage has brought new meaning to the sheer size of this thing though. Starting to think I should sell it and getting an RF45 instead. I guess moving the XY servos so they sit back beside their tables should help a lot though, cutting the width and depth of the machine down a full foot.

I know once I actually get it inside I'll never wanna let it go though. So is anyone interested in this Fanuc 6M control....it works. I do know I want to get rid of the gigantic electrical cabinets that house it all. Mostly the one in back, having to leave the machine far enough from the wall to maintain access to it costs me tons of valuable floor space.

The servos are pretty big DC servos, I haven't pulled the cover off them yet to see what its gonna take to put encoders on them...but they may be sold as well.

Does anyone know how much all of this stuff is worth?

Is there anyway to replace the drawbar motor with something that isn't so dang tall? The current one is going to be within an inch or two of my ceiling.

[a67429]

Here it is just before being unplugged so I could bring it home....seemed like a good idea at the time. A functioning CNC mill of this caliber for $1500, what's the worst that could happen right?

[a67429]

Dang, you guys are a talkative bunch.

So the crane never showed today to get the mill off the trailer, so it gets to spend another night outside. Moving right along, drip feeding this thing is giving m nightmares, so the control is getting replaced ASAP.

Since my motors and drives are fine, I'm thinking of going something along the lines of a CSMIO/IP-M controller from cs-lab.eu. Do any of you have experience with this type of device? I know exactly nothing, even after reading the entire 70 page manual for the thing. I take it that it interfaces my existing servo drives to the PC's step/dir signal? Is there anything else needed to make it work? Should I be looking at something else to bring this mill under PC control?

[underthetire]

Don't see what the problem is with drip feeding. You can always get more memory for the 6 if you want to. Some old pos computer could drip feed all day long, and it's not like you have enough rpm or federate to out buffer it.

[a67429]

The near term goals are to figure out how to get rid of the power supply cabinet on the back of the machine, and to place the mill under PC control. Even if drip feeding works, it just seems to add another software layer to the process for me to screw up, and will keep the machine from moving any faster in the future. I dont know though, I haven't even tried it yet. As long as I can draw complex solids and have the mill make them without waitinging for data all the time, or needing half a dozen seprate programs to do it...I'll be a happy guy.

Modern components are much smaller, smarter, faster and allow me to place everything into one cabinet on the side of the mill. Allowing me to ditch the PS cabinet....Hmm, I guess that kinda takes the CSMIO control out of play since it would require that I keep the original power supplys and drives.

Right now I feel like I'm becoming trapped by the seemingly never ending string of info out there about the different ways make it all happen. Various motor types and sizes, controllers from all corners of the planet, operating voltages, power supplies, etc....God help me settle in on a software option(s). The more I read and try to learn it all, the less I seem to actually know about it.

[a67429]

So I finally managed to get the mill I to the garage tonight. I still need to level the machine, but should be able to handle that tomorrow. Do I just level it off the table, or??

Being able to turn it on is the next step, so I need 3 phase power for the thing. Does anyone know how much of this machine actually needs 3 phase power?

Is it just the spindle motor, or do all the other electronics need it as well? RPC's are large and expensive, so I'm wondering if I could run the servo drives and control off of regular 220 and then just get a VFD for the spindle?

[Hood]

Since my motors and drives are fine, I'm thinking of going something along the lines of a CSMIO/IP-M controller from cs-lab.eu.

The IP-M will not be any use to you unless you intend t replace the servo drives as well. The reason is the IP-M is a Step/Dir controller and your drives will be analogue (+/-10v) control.
You could however use a CSMIO/IP-A as it can output to analogue drives.
I have used all 3 of the CSMIO controllers, they are all excellent but the IP-A has advantages over the two Step/Dir ones and it is the first choice of controller for me if I decide to replace the USB SmoothStepper and Ethernet SmoothSteppers on my knee mill and big lathe. The only reason I have not decided to do them yet is I dont use the knee mill much now that I have a Chiron FZ12S and second lathe threading, although good with CSMIO/IP-S, has an issue. The issue is the pullout at the end of the thread is delayed and thus an annular groove is cut. This is being looked at by Brian at Artsoft and hopefully a resolution will be found soon.
That of course will not be a problem for a mill as you do not single point thread on a mill
Rigid tapping however works exceptionally well with the CSMIO/IP-A and IP-S, you can see some videos of my Chiron and small lathe (which has the IP-S) here https://www.youtube.com/user/HoodScotland

Hood

[a67429]

The IP-M will not be any use to you unless you intend t replace the servo drives as well. The reason is the IP-M is a Step/Dir controller and your drives will be analogue (+/-10v) control.

Hood

I pulled the cover off the Y axis to see what kind of encoders it had, and should have been able to guess by looking at the data plate on the Z motor, and they have 2000 pulse per revolution, A860 300-T001 pulse coders. These may work with step/dir since they aren't velocity feedback types? I'm still really new to servos, so please bear with my learning curve.

[Hood]

Its not the encoders that determine whether you can use Step/Dir, it is the drives.
The drives take an input from your controller, some modern industrial drives can take various input control methods but 99.999% certainty that the drives you have will be +/-10v analogue control.

Hood

[br1]

Yes your on the right track, I helped a buddy do this to this same machine, we ended up just leaving the original box alone and putting one right above it, trust me it is much easier to deal with than trying to figure out all the wires and relays from the origional. We just ditched all the servos and went with a keling package and have no problem pushing a 3/4 2fl end mill .5 deep at about 30 ipm. With a good set of spindle bearings, this is a stout machine, built to remove metal. I'd say without looking at it in person you got a pretty good deal.

[a67429]

Its not the encoders that determine whether you can use Step/Dir, it is the drives.
The drives take an input from your controller, some modern industrial drives can take various input control methods but 99.999% certainty that the drives you have will be +/-10v analogue control.

Hood

Well that's what I meant, that these encoders may work with a modern drive? It seems I almost haven too many options. Keep the servos / encoders and replace the drives, or replace the control with something like the CSMIO...or go the easy way and replace it all with a kit from keling or cnc4pc. I guess my issue could be that I just don't know enough about all these systems to know what is going to give me the best bang for my buck.

It looks like my 6M drives are also 3phase power, so I'm leaning toward replacing them, but don't know how to handle the servos / encoders. It doesn't look like there is a ton of info out there about my encoders, and I don't want to have to design and build a signal converter to reuse them just to save a few bucks over buying new servos. If they pretty much plug in then I'll keep em though. With the premium these encoders are getting on flea bay, it may be cheaper to sell them off and replace them anyway though.

How would my servo performance compare to those from keling or cnc4pc? I've been eyeballing the 1100oz/in kit from cnc4pc.

[a67429]

Yes your on the right track, I helped a buddy do this to this same machine, we ended up just leaving the original box alone and putting one right above it, trust me it is much easier to deal with than trying to figure out all the wires and relays from the origional. We just ditched all the servos and went with a keling package and have no problem pushing a 3/4 2fl end mill .5 deep at about 30 ipm. With a good set of spindle bearings, this is a stout machine, built to remove metal. I'd say without looking at it in person you got a pretty good deal.

Now I really like the look of that. The cabinet for my 6M control alone is bigger than both of yours put together...and the one on the back of the machine holding my power supplies and servo drives is even bigger still...and then there is yet another cabinet for spindle control on the left side of the machine. Getting modern electronics and fitting everything into one cab has a lot of appeal to me as space in my garage is EXTREMELY limited. Plus I could use a VFD for the spindle and not have to deal with running a RPC at all, which will save even more money and space.

I'm not too hung up on having the fastest machine in town, but what size servos did you use? What kind of rapids are you getting out of it?

[Hood]

How would my servo performance compare to those from keling or cnc4pc? I've been eyeballing the 1100oz/in kit from cnc4pc.

Your drives and motors are of Industrial quality.
The CNC4PC kit is in my opinion a step down from what you have but at least it does use the Hungarian servo drives which seem to be the best of the low end DC servo drives.

Hood

[Al_The_Man]

so I need 3 phase power for the thing. Does anyone know how much of this machine actually needs 3 phase power?

Is it just the spindle motor, or do all the other electronics need it as well?

Those are nice motors and encoders, however the drives are most likely the 3 ph SCR type drives, you may experience some problems with running off of any artificial 3ph, I have not personally tried it, but I know a few that have and were not all that successful, or ran into problems.
If you stay with a ±10vdc analogue, A-M-C drives will run those motors.
There is also Dynomotion with Kanalog that could handle the ±10vdc control.
Al.

[br1]

a67429,
High-Torque Stepper Motor, Stepper Motor, Driver, Stepper Motor kit, DC Servo Motor, DC Servo Motor kit, Stepper Motor Power Supply, CNC Router, Spindle, and other Components. Automation Technology Inc

This is the kit that was purchased. Rapid is about 100-150 rapid. By all means hang on to the old servos as you never know......maybe you can use them as is, they are pretty powerful themself, we went with the kit to avoid any issues in our case. I should note I run a rotary phase converter for the spindle motor only.

[a67429]

a67429,
High-Torque Stepper Motor, Stepper Motor, Driver, Stepper Motor kit, DC Servo Motor, DC Servo Motor kit, Stepper Motor Power Supply, CNC Router, Spindle, and other Components. Automation Technology Inc

This is the kit that was purchased. Rapid is about 100-150 rapid. By all means hang on to the old servos as you never know......maybe you can use them as is, they are pretty powerful themself, we went with the kit to avoid any issues in our case. I should note I run a rotary phase converter for the spindle motor only.

I'm starting to think a kit like that is the way I'm gonna go, because I'm starting to grow tired of trying to become an expert in different power supplies, servos, encoders, controllers, etc...just to be able to buy the parts to get this thing going without 3 phase power. Like you, I don't wanna deal with unknown issues and added expense later when I find out what I have doesn't work with each other, or who knows what. With a kit, I can pretty much just plug it all in and know what's going to happen. Not to mention the extensive support available online for kits like that if / when I do have any problems.

I may keep the existing servos, but selling them will signifigantly help offset the cost of the the retrofit. Between them and parting out my existing electronics, it would pretty much pay for the conversion. Once I have it up and running on new servos, I doubt I'd ever put them back into service anyway.

The only thing I don't really care for about the kit you mention is the geko drives. I'm seeing a lot more people recommend against them, because of the dithering when holding a position. Is it really good that big of a deal? Many people run them and are perfectly happy with them, so I presume they really can't be "bad". So I know its been covered many times I'm sure, but how to the gekos really stack up against drives like dugong, whale, granite, vipers, etc...