[24ariel3]

As many other my Chinese TB6560 3 axis controller "exploded"

I know that the best controller money can buy is the G540 but it is too expensive for me right now
Is there any other options something in between, for about +-100$?
I have 3A 6 lead steppers (bipolar)

I saw on Ebay this 5A 3 Axis TB6600HG Stepper Motor Driver Controller as I understand the 6600 is better then 6560 but it is still Chinese and to be honest I lost my faith in Chinese products
What should I buy?

Thanks!

[rgammage]

As many other my Chinese TB6560 3 axis controller "exploded"

I know that the best controller money can buy is the G540 but it is too expensive for me right now
Is there any other options something in between, for about +-100$?
I have 3A 6 lead steppers (bipolar)

I saw on Ebay this 5A 3 Axis TB6600HG Stepper Motor Driver Controller as I understand the 6600 is better then 6560 but it is still Chinese and to be honest I lost my faith in Chinese products
What should I buy?

Thanks!

24Ariel3

The TB6560 chip is Japanese and 3 of them are used on your Chinese circuit board ..... have they all blown up? The chances are that only one has blown and you should see how easy it is to get where you are. In UK they are offered at about 10$ ea. Chips either fail early in their lives or 'never' unless abused.

I do notice they are only rated for a maximum of 3.5A ... so driving them at 3A without cooling would be foolish. Replace the chip that is blown and add a fan would be my advice. Dropping the current output to 2.5 or 2.75A might enable them to last longer

Regards

Richard

[24ariel3]

Thing is that it was working fine for about a week and was't hot it was pretty cool
I replaced the crapy fan with much better one and connected it to an external power supply so there was no extra load on the 12v regulator
Yesterday I powered up my machine and after few seconds of work the tb6560 of the Z axis blown up
I isolated the part that controlling the Z axis from the rest of the circuit and tried my luck
First I applied 5V and 12V from external power supply and the leds lighted up
then I applied the main 24V and it was looking good
afterwords I disconnected all the power, connect the Y stepper and connected the power in the same sequence
again it work for a second and the tb6560 of the Y axis blown up

[lucas]

Unfortunatly you are just one more to add to the very long Chinese TB6560 blown driver list, you even improved the drives and they still fail.
Some of these drives work, others just don't.
There's a topic here on the Chinese TB6600 drives where one drive blows quickly, again some of these are working. Problem is to find wich will and won't.

There are 2 issues with Chinese drives: the overall design and the quality of components that they use is poor, this could be the reason for the quick failures but it will definatly be the reason for a short lifetime compared to Gecko's and other well designed drives.

Have a look in the open source forums if you're on a budget and can't afford Gecko's or Leadshine, there are several well designed and cheap driver kits available in different flavours wich have proven their reliability if you can handle a soldering iron (looks like you can).

[rgammage]

Hi Ariel

I agree with Lucas that you need a better solution. My friend bought much more powerful drivers and they do look the business. In any event I would over specify what you need by a factor of 2 .... if you want to drive 3A steppers I would use 6A devices as a minimum. Keep the high voltage supplies at lease 10% lower than the maximum suggested ...... about half way between maximum and minimum and rated for at least double the current on one axis (remember as they are switching or micro-stepping axes are rarely driven at the same time). It is too easy to generate noise and spikes though bad wiring etc. that will make this 'over engineering' look like good practice.

All the best with your project

Richard

[24ariel3]

Thank you all,
I understand that the driver should be able to supply more current then what the stepper uses, it is for safety reasons as I know
but the gecko g540 is 3.5A per axis and I know that people are running 3A stepper with it
6A driver will be WAY over my budget
I saw in the open source section a driver based on THB6064AH looks like it can do 4A/50V (max) is it any good?

It seems like the board collapse under load, only when the steppers were connected. Is it possible that the steppers somehow caused a shortening?
It was strange because without the steppers the voltage on tb6560 Vdd was 5V and 24V on Vma and Vmb meaning everything was right
What can cause such failure?

[TOTALLYRC]

The G540 is designed to run at 3.5 amps all day everyday so no oversizing is needed.

Mike

[24ariel3]

On what kind of IC the G540 that it can run so well?
So what do you say that the THB6064AH with 4A won't hold and collapse too?

[aarggh]

Ariel, don't throw more good money on a crap product! The TB6560 based boards are for the most part all inferior designs, the chip is not at all suitable for the application, and has very particular power up/down sequences required, or the I.C. blows! True and not very good! to add to the further troubles of these boards, everyone that I've seen has poorly designed PCB layouts, with terrible shielding, grounding, not too mention the useless opto-isolation, and the in most the additional 5v rail required for the logic.

In my opinion they are garbage. Almost anything else would be preferable. Unfortunately G540's are at the top of the quality alternatives, and although the cost seems high, it really isn't considering the bulletproof design and robustness, let alone the 4 axis and built-in breakout board with true opto-isolation.

I would think if you can't afford a G540, you'll struggle to cope with the high cost of building/running a cnc machine. A cheaper controller would be the lini or pmimno variety, but they have some limitations on steppers or their configuration from memory? Don't quote me.

cheers, Ian

[24ariel3]

I already build my DIY cnc machine and it worked for about a week the total cost of my machine is about 450$ so 300$ for G540 is almost the price of my machine.
Funny thing is that before I started to build I assumed by rough calculation that the total cost will be about 350 so it is already over my budget.

Now I don't know what to do on one hand if I won't buy some good drivers and breakout board my machine is no better than a statue on the other hand money talks...

[aarggh]

I know it hurts, but as someone who has always been a first adopter of new tech, and always on the lookout for a bargain, I have now changed my view over the years, as my time is increasingly important to me the older I get. A G540 will cost, but, it will work! AND it will work very, very well! But it will allow you to operate more efficiently, reliably, and faster!

You can hook it up and have faith it will work, or that if you have a problem you can send it to Gecko and they will fix it.

I can't fully explain the value that sort of quality product can bring to the table, but I can assure you it will not be something you'll regret, or worry about afterwards!

When I fitted one to my 6040, it really blew me away with the speed, performance, and noise difference, it was like night and day. Now, any machine I plan, will have a Gecko! End of story!

cheers, Ian

[24ariel3]

I really have to think about!
Where can I buy G540 for good price except from Gecko's site and Ebay?

[rgammage]

Thank you all,
I understand that the driver should be able to supply more current then what the stepper uses, it is for safety reasons as I know
but the gecko g540 is 3.5A per axis and I know that people are running 3A stepper with it
6A driver will be WAY over my budget
I saw in the open source section a driver based on THB6064AH looks like it can do 4A/50V (max) is it any good?

It seems like the board collapse under load, only when the steppers were connected. Is it possible that the steppers somehow caused a shortening?
It was strange because without the steppers the voltage on tb6560 Vdd was 5V and 24V on Vma and Vmb meaning everything was right
What can cause such failure?

Hello Ariel

The THB6064 kit from MassMinds does seem to be a viable alternative. It also seems that the power sequencing of the 6560 is problematic ...... I have not seen power sequencing as an issue for 30 years ..... problems always come around!.

The MM device is single axis so you could buy just one and see how you get on.

All the best

Richard

[24ariel3]

Is it possible to use the chinese tb6560 controller just for a breakout board and usr MM s drivers?

In TB6560 and TBH6064 datasheet it is recommended to use a fast blow fuse on Vma and Vmb line is there a reason why no no is actually using these fuses in their drivers?

[rgammage]

Hello Ariel

If you have the circuit of the broken board by all means use it for parts. Send me the circuit if you are not sure.

Fuses .... well ...... they often stop fires ... but today chips blow MUCH faster than fuses!

Richard

[lucas]

I saw in the open source section a driver based on THB6064AH looks like it can do 4A/50V (max) is it any good?

It's the THB6064 that I was referring to, there are a few flavors available for you to chose wich one you like.
This chip has none of the problems wich the TB6560 has. Me and James have only happy customers.
The PCB has a very good design, drives work smooth and reliable.
A G540 has a few options to drive the motors "over their limits", this means that you can get higher speeds and lower resonance but the THB drive will work fine for most well designed machines.

The G540 is designed to run at 3.5 amps all day everyday so no oversizing is needed.

Mike

Agree, Gecko specifies the safe usable current, the drive can be used at higher currents with some risk of failure.
Chip manufacturers specify a maximum current, the user has to provide the safety margin. Problem is that the Chinese advertise their drives using the maximum specification of the chip.

Is it possible to use the chinese tb6560 controller just for a breakout board and usr MM s drivers?

Don't use it as a breakout board, the optocouplers are to slow and won't work, the only usable parts are the DB25 connector and eventually the input signals.

[James Newton]

The issue isn't so much which chip is better or worse, it's which mfgr LIES to you and MISLEADS you and sells you JUNK at a lower price before skipping on to the next sucker (after the time limit for negative feedback has expired) and which is HONEST and UPFRONT about the right chip for the job and sells you a QUALITY product at fair price, then supports it after the sales.

The TB6560 is a fine chip; if I were designing a 3D printer or a small engraver or drilling machine that was a complete system, I would probably use it. But it's not appropriate as part of a modular, homebuilt, CNC machine because of the power on sequence issue as noted. The TB6560 drivers from china are JUNK, /for your needs/ and for one other reason that affects the TB660 driver as well...

The TB6600 driver from china isn't going to work any better tan the TB6560 driver. Not because the chips is better or worse, but because BOTH were put together at minimal cost, by practically slave labor, by people who do NOT care about you.

The kits Luc and I sell are stocked with quality components. The design is solid. The PCB is good. And if you have problems, we make them right. I've fixed several drives that a customer assembled incorrectly. I don't complain, I just fix them and send them back. I do not have unhappy customers. Period. Why? Because I actually care. China can't compete with that.

[JVWilliams]

As a follow-on to this...I think it's important to note that you CAN get quality devices made in China. Perhaps not a popular point here, but still, valid. The TB6560-based drivers obviously don't qualify, and I agree with earlier comments: the chip is not suited for the power levels to which it's being subjected, and is apparently being misused on top of that thanks to the power on sequencing.

The devices made by Leadshine, however (resold/rebranded through companies like Wantai, Kelling, and Longs) don't seem to have a lot of issues, and from opening one up, use quality parts and are professionally manufactured. Unfortunately, one of Leadshine's earlier servo drivers (a couple of years back) seems to have been a direct knockoff from Gecko and DID use an inferior replacement part, so you need to ask yourself whether that bothers you at this point (Leadshine has apparently moved on to rolling their own designs). However they've gotten there, China has been improving by leaps and bounds in their products.

Leadshine's most recent DSP-based digital drivers have been cited as fully the equal (and possibly more) of anything that is made by Gecko. Of course, the price is comparable, too

But, as always, buyer beware--and further, be aware that your recourse if problems crop up may be more limited with products made in China and sold by Chinese distributors than those made and sold by a company stateside.

I recall a time when "made in Japan" was a mark of inferior quality. You don't hear that much these days.

[aarggh]

I recall a time when "made in Japan" was a mark of inferior quality. You don't hear that much these days.

Man that must have been many, many years ago! Since the 80's at least, Japan set the standard for precision and quality. Although nowadays Taiwan is the new Japan, and China is very fast becoming the new Taiwan! It's funny though that China still uses these garbage controller designs for the hobbyist market, but manage to supply really well made, reliable, yet dirt cheap machines.

cheers, Ian

[James Newton]

I certainly agree that you can get good products from china. All these chips are made there, for example. What I was talking about is the current crop of ultra cheap (too good to be true) priced driver boards from no-name companies in china. If a reputable company in china starts making drivers, and supporting them, and taking care of customers, then I'll be happy to eat my hat. Hasn't happened yet. Everything comming out of china right now in the way of driver boards, as far as I've seen, is crap. Period. But everybody keeps buying it, because "I can't afford any more"... Oh? Really? Can you afford it better now that your first driver fried? How much crap will you "afford" before you learn to buy quality from a reputable company?