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  1. #161
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    14

    Re: TB6600 drive from EBAY

    Well folks, thanks for all the information. I believe I will go away from the TB6600 4 axis driver based on what information I have received here and go with the 4 single drivers (DQ542MA) from wantimotor on eBay. They have a package consisting of: 425 oz-in, 4.2A, 3.6uH stepper motors (4x), 36v, 9.2A (2x) power supply, DB25 breakout board and the above mentioned . DQ542MA drivers (4x) They offer free shipping so don't have to worry about what bringing it in from China entails. Still trying to put together a list of all the other things I need such as wiring, fuses, connectors, etc. Sure adds up fast. If I ever get this thing off the ground I will post results, if not will be calling for help. Thanks again and take care.

  2. #162
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    74

    Re: TB6600 drive from EBAY

    Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf55 View Post
    I will be uploading the schematic for the HY-DIV268N-5A Rev N6, I'm almost finished with it, I can tell you right now that it is pretty much the same as what Lucas has discovered.
    I may or may not mention all my findings, but suffice it to say, the best approach would be to Design a new PCB.
    more on that when I post the schematic

    Thanx much for all the help here.
    OK here is my Trace of the HY-DIV268N-5A Rev N6 PCB, Please if you have traced it yourself and find errors in my schematic, let me know, and I will verify and correct what I have posted... one thing to Note is this schematic makes a bit more sense than the Rev N2 schematic, I still don't agree with the engineering of this board but it seems to Function. I will be making some of my own mods to it before I use it.


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	HY_DIV268N_5A_REV_N6.jpg 
Views:	60 
Size:	59.4 KB 
ID:	270760

  3. #163
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    Feb 2015
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    74

    Re: TB6600 drive from EBAY

    the voltage settings for Vref are: if R23 = 10K
    131.449 mV
    563.432 mV
    952.012 mV
    1.232 V
    1.660 V
    1.869 V
    2.054 V
    2.218 V

    Not that it matters but I Ran the Drive Schematic on MultiSim, and my last post was 13 LOL

    the Data Sheet says Vref Minimum is .3 V and Maximum is 1.95 V that divider needs adjustment.

    PLEASE NOTE: the Value or R12 is 330K NOT 2K as I have listed on the schematic

  4. #164
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    1695

    Re: TB6600 drive from EBAY

    Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf55 View Post
    OK here is my Trace of the HY-DIV268N-5A Rev N6 PCB, Please if you have traced it yourself and find errors in my schematic, let me know, and I will verify and correct what I have posted... one thing to Note is this schematic makes a bit more sense than the Rev N2 schematic, I still don't agree with the engineering of this board but it seems to Function. I will be making some of my own mods to it before I use it.
    Thanks for posting it. The only part I traced out was the torque circuit. It looks the same as what you have.

  5. #165
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    74

    Re: TB6600 drive from EBAY

    Quote Originally Posted by H500 View Post
    Thanks for posting it. The only part I traced out was the torque circuit. It looks the same as what you have.
    Kewl, the TQ circuit seems to work pretty good too.

    here is the TQ Circuit on MultiSim.

    Attachment 270920
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MULTISIM_TB6600_TQ2.jpg 
Views:	29 
Size:	187.5 KB 
ID:	270922

  6. #166
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
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    1899

    Re: TB6600 drive from EBAY

    Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf55 View Post
    Kewl, the TQ circuit seems to work pretty good too.

    here is the TQ Circuit on MultiSim.

    Attachment 270920
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MULTISIM_TB6600_TQ2.jpg 
Views:	29 
Size:	187.5 KB 
ID:	270922
    ...but isn't the TQ circuit THE problem? I mean, yes it works but isn't it limiting torque far too fast? Without the circuit holding torque is kept at 100% and as far as I understand, the only negative effects of that is more motor heat. As long as the current settings are right, that should not cause a problem, but if the holding torque is low and you can fairly easily turn one axis by hand then the negative effects of that can be drifting of that axis during milling, especially milling something a bit harder like aluminum. Am I wrong?

    There is a similar circuit in my 3 axis blue card based on TB6560, and I have just removed that circuit for that reason. The limiting circuit works, the motors are cool during hold but the torque is limited so I was afraid that when I start milling that will be a problem. Another thing, the circuit caused a few extra steps due to quite severe HF noise generation on the step signal. Once the circuit was removed the noise disappeared and everything looks fine on the oscilloscope. BTW, have you checked on an oscilloscope (without HF noise rejection set) how the step signals look like on your cards?

    Anyway, thanks for tracing the card and making the circuit diagram.

  7. #167
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    Feb 2015
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    74

    Re: TB6600 drive from EBAY

    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    ...but isn't the TQ circuit THE problem? I mean, yes it works but isn't it limiting torque far too fast? Without the circuit holding torque is kept at 100% and as far as I understand, the only negative effects of that is more motor heat. As long as the current settings are right, that should not cause a problem, but if the holding torque is low and you can fairly easily turn one axis by hand then the negative effects of that can be drifting of that axis during milling, especially milling something a bit harder like aluminum. Am I wrong?

    There is a similar circuit in my 3 axis blue card based on TB6560, and I have just removed that circuit for that reason. The limiting circuit works, the motors are cool during hold but the torque is limited so I was afraid that when I start milling that will be a problem. Another thing, the circuit caused a few extra steps due to quite severe HF noise generation on the step signal. Once the circuit was removed the noise disappeared and everything looks fine on the oscilloscope. BTW, have you checked on an oscilloscope (without HF noise rejection set) how the step signals look like on your cards?

    Anyway, thanks for tracing the card and making the circuit diagram.
    Personally I don't see the TQ circuit as an issue, now perhaps some folks do as maybe they want the driver to have 100% current to make sure the motor Holds when it is not being stepped, well OK fine then just jumper the TB6600HG IC so that it will not go into Torque Reduction Mode, after all this is just a feature of the IC and you can choose to either use it or not.

    Personally I think 30% is enough holding torque in most applications.

    If you understand the scope signals that I posted then only after the step does the IC go to the 30% mode, as the step rate increases then the IC stays in the 100% mode, so again I see no issue with this, only what you as a User Might want then it becomes an issue. the problem with the older N2 PCB was that the TQ circuit did not function and the IC stayed in the 30% Mode at all times no matter what the stepping rate was.

    at least this is my understanding, I do not own an N2 Board to verify this, but I trust what Lucas has posted.

    I can't say about a 3 Axis board as I only have this HY-DIV268N-5A_Rev N6 board, I do not know how the circuit is laid out on the board you speak of, but I have run this driver Live now and monitored it with an SD375 analyzer and I see no artifacts worth mention. I have also run the complete drive circuit on MultiSim and see no other significant artifacts, granted now I have only pushed the Electronics to a Max of 3 Amps so far.

    my intent is to use this Driver Unit to Drive a Telescope on an EQ Mount, I don't expect to run into issues that CNC Milling might create.

    I might add one thing... I have a Well Setting Knee Mill that I converted to cnc back in like 1998 and my stepper motors all have Quadrature 1000 ppr Shaft encoders on them and IF you forced a step of any motor the Controller would catch it and compensate., but I guess in your case you have no feedback so your controller never really knows where your motors are.

  8. #168
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    Apr 2013
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    1899

    Re: TB6600 drive from EBAY

    OK, thanks. It is good to know that according to your measurements the driver is fine. Though, my understanding is that there are many versions on eBay, all called HY-DIV268N-5A so ordering three of those might result in a different version, and in the worst case maybe three different version. Anyway, I will not buy a 3-axis version, I have one now and if I buy new drivers they will be individual drivers.

    Yes, I understand the scope signals, but those are simulated measurements from a simulated scope. The torque limiter works similarly in my driver but when I connected a real oscilloscope to the step inputs of the chip there was a high frequency noise and spikes on the step signals which now an then caused extra steps. That issue was gone as soon as the torque circuit was removed. That's why I asked if you have done real measurements also, or just simulated.

    Edit:

    BTW, I just looked at your diagram and compared it with what Lucas did up thread and the two differences are the Enable and the TQ circuits. Perhaps the manufacturer of your card learned a lesson and did his home work ALMOST right. The 330k pull down resistors are wrong and should be removed since they are in parallel with the 100k which are built in the TB6600. Also the diodes on the motor outputs and on the VMA and VMB are wrong, should not be there at all.

  9. #169
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    74

    Re: TB6600 drive from EBAY

    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    OK, thanks. It is good to know that according to your measurements the driver is fine. Though, my understanding is that there are many versions on eBay, all called HY-DIV268N-5A so ordering three of those might result in a different version, and in the worst case maybe three different version. Anyway, I will not buy a 3-axis version, I have one now and if I buy new drivers they will be individual drivers.
    Well, I'm not saying the Driver is fine as far as being Compliant to the TB6600HG Data Sheet, I'm just saying it does work, the Voltage divider for the Vref is wrong IMHO but that is easy enough to fix, But as it is you can select some switch settings that do not Violate the .3 to 1.95 Volt limit.
    As you say when you buy one of these from Flea Bay it is a Crap Shoot at best, as you do not know what Rev Level the PCB is at, and I can only speak for the Version N6, so you are correct in what you say, you may end up with several different Versions all with their own unique issues. And yes I'm an Old Fart (retired) I like individual components, I'm not a Fan of All-in-one type things. but that is just me


    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    Yes, I understand the scope signals, but those are simulated measurements from a simulated scope. The torque limiter works similarly in my driver but when I connected a real oscilloscope to the step inputs of the chip there was a high frequency noise and spikes on the step signals which now an then caused extra steps. That issue was gone as soon as the torque circuit was removed. That's why I asked if you have done real measurements also, or just simulated..
    well so far I have only run this N6 driver on MultiSim and let me tell you right now there is no SPICE model for the TB6600HG that I know of and it took me a couple weeks to build my own custom SPICE model to be able to run this PCB on MultiSim, I have sent E-Mails to Toshiba asking for Tech Support for a SPICE model but have not received any information as of yet so my SPICE model may be Flawed, if anyone else has a Model for this IC they are not willing to share it. .... so at this point in time I have only run this driver on a simulator, as far as the scope goes MultiSim has a Tektronix TDS 2024 scope in it and is as good as any Real Scope, I have run it against my Real Tek 7704A scope, so I don't have an issue with the Virtual scopes in MultiSim. eventually I will run the HY-DIV268N-5A on my SD375 Spec analyzer. it doesn't get any better than that


    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    Edit:

    BTW, I just looked at your diagram and compared it with what Lucas did up thread and the two differences are the Enable and the TQ circuits. Perhaps the manufacturer of your card learned a lesson and did his home work ALMOST right. The 330k pull down resistors are wrong and should be removed since they are in parallel with the 100k which are built in the TB6600. Also the diodes on the motor outputs and on the VMA and VMB are wrong, should not be there at all.
    As Lucas says and I agree D1 on my schematic needs to go Bye Bye, as far as the Pull-Up/Pull-Down resistors go, it's not a big worry as current is limited (not saying I agree with it) as far as the other 4 Diodes they are Fast recovery types and I see no harm in leaving them as they are.But for sure the Vref Divider needs fixed. the least that could be done is make R23 = 15K and make R27 = 1K it's not perfect but it's better and it falls within range of the TB6600HG Data Sheet

  10. #170
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    Apr 2013
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    1899

    Re: TB6600 drive from EBAY

    Quote Originally Posted by fluvannabear View Post
    A_Camera: I have been reading all the posts I can find on the TB6600 Driver. Wow, so many things wrong from the factory. I am trying to put together a 4 axis system for my G0484 Mill/Drill using the 4 axis version of that driver and NEMA23, 425oz-in Motors with a 350W-36V power supply. StepperOnline has this package at what seems a reasonable price. Therefore I am really looking forward to your "How to Fix your TB6600 Driver" write-up. Hope you have a chance to begin the effort. Take care. Burt
    Hi,
    I'm sorry but there will not be a 'How to fix a TB6600 driver' write up by me. I decided to go for the DQ542MA driver and ordered four of them. They will replace my blue card and hopefully will work better.

  11. #171
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    Feb 2015
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    74

    Re: TB6600 drive from EBAY

    I just got another one of the N6 units today and upon checking it out the High Speed optocouplers are in sockets on this one and also the 2 resistors are not 270 ohm as they were on the last card they are 560 marked and upon measuring them they are in Fact 56 Ohm resistors so just because my schematic states the values that I found on the one card that I used to make the schematic does not mean all N6 boards are the same.

    I see no point in posting a "How to Fix a TB6600 driver" from me either, I have posted all the information that is needed to fix it yourself along with all the other good posts about this board.

    I will say that theToshiba TB6600HG is a good Driver IC for what it is, Don't Blame Toshiba for the the Chicken Crap design work of the engineers that use the chip.

    I have them working fine and very strong and very little heat generated on the IC itself. Remember it is what it is.

  12. #172
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    29

    Re: TB6600 drive from EBAY

    I've just bought some of these drives before I found this thread.....
    Where do you get your Vref Max figure of 1.95 volts from - the data sheet here http://reprap.org/mediawiki/images/8/8c/TB6600HG.pdf says that Vref Max is 3.5V ? If that is right, even with a 4K7 resistor for R23 it would be within spec..

  13. #173
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    Feb 2015
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    74

    Re: TB6600 drive from EBAY

    Quote Originally Posted by watchman View Post
    I've just bought some of these drives before I found this thread.....
    Where do you get your Vref Max figure of 1.95 volts from - the data sheet here http://reprap.org/mediawiki/images/8/8c/TB6600HG.pdf says that Vref Max is 3.5V ? If that is right, even with a 4K7 resistor for R23 it would be within spec..
    read the Data Sheet From Toshiba.....

    http://www.toshiba.com/taec/componen...E_EN_31288.pdf

    Note 1: Though Vref of the test condition for pre-shipment is 3.0V, make sure to configure Vref within the operating
    range which is written in page 26 in driving the motor.

    Vref ― 0.3 ― 1.95 V

  14. #174
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    29

    Re: TB6600 drive from EBAY

    Thanks, point taken - it does seem a bit confusing when 2 data sheets issued by Toshiba for the same chip have different values specified.... Now, where's that calculator...



    Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf55 View Post
    read the Data Sheet From Toshiba.....

    http://www.toshiba.com/taec/componen...E_EN_31288.pdf

    Note 1: Though Vref of the test condition for pre-shipment is 3.0V, make sure to configure Vref within the operating
    range which is written in page 26 in driving the motor.

    Vref ― 0.3 ― 1.95 V

  15. #175
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    Feb 2015
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    74

    Re: TB6600 drive from EBAY

    Quote Originally Posted by watchman View Post
    Thanks, point taken - it does seem a bit confusing when 2 data sheets issued by Toshiba for the same chip have different values specified.... Now, where's that calculator...
    I have actually found at least 6 versions of the data sheet on the Net, is most likely more versions.
    This is a very common issue, as a general rule no matter the source that posts a data sheet, it is always best to check the Manufacture's to see if they have the latest information, if not there then Digikey or Mouser normally has the most up to date sheets.

    IMHO I would pull that 6 position Dip Switch, install a 3 Position for M1, M2, and M3. Place a Trim Pot next to it and remove R24, R25, and R26 then adjust the values of R23 and R27 to work with your Trim Pot selection. That is what I did.

  16. #176
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    Apr 2013
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    1899

    Re: TB6600 drive from EBAY

    Quote Originally Posted by A_Camera View Post
    Hi,
    I'm sorry but there will not be a 'How to fix a TB6600 driver' write up by me. I decided to go for the DQ542MA driver and ordered four of them. They will replace my blue card and hopefully will work better.
    I needed three cards for my 3-axis CNC project and didn't need a break out card since I will run my CNC using USB, but the best deal I found was a 4 controller kit with break out card, so even though I did not need all that, I ordered that kit last week. The seller contacted me the day after, saying she was sorry but she run out of stock with the break out card and asked if I accepted 5 stepper drivers and no break out board. Of course, for me that was even better, I can always use the extra controllers for something, or use them as spares. My previous experience said that spares are good to have since probably one or two of those cards are expected to be dead on arrival or working badly.

    Anyway, my new drivers arrived yesterday and all I can say so far is that they are GREAT. Tested all five cards and they all work nice. No more noise when the motors are in holding state, speed is stable and more than twice as fast as it was ever possible to do with my blue 3 axis card, acceleration is 10 times faster also. Yes, that's right, ten times faster. Not to mention accuracy... which is now dead on, every time regardless of speed between 1mm/min and 600mm/min with my 12mm 1.75mm pitch lead screws. With the old driver I had maximum speed of 250mm/min, but for best accuracy I had to lower that to 200mm/min and the maximum acceleration was 1mm/min with that old card and even so, the accuracy and repeatability was not suitable for my needs since after only a few minutes the extra steps and missing steps generated about 0.08mm error, which might be usable for wood but definitely not for what I plan to use my CNC for. Accuracy and repeatability was absolutely the worse at low speed. Now finally I can get 100% accuracy and after the half hour test run with each driver on their own it seems to work just fine.

    Attachment 272766

    Of course, I opened one driver (so far only one) before the first run to see if everything looks good inside plus to make the modification necessary to run with my 3.3V USB interface. I found no serious issues. Some components are manually soldered and the card is not properly washed after the soldering, but that does not bother me since it would be even worse if I bought a different kit with parts which I needed to solder. Of course, I removed the card from the heatsink and here was something which needs corrective action, the thermal compound was not enough, barely any applied, so I added some more. The three resistors on the opto couplers, which supposed to be 270 ohm were only 220, but those I had to change to 180 ohm anyway, so I don't care, other then I needed to recalculate the new value for the parallel resistor. I chose to solder resistors in parallel and not to remove the original ones since I did not want to risk destroying the resistors at this stage, but I will remove those now that everything is fine and solder 180 ohm resistors. Otherwise in my opinion the card is very well build and I am very happy with the deal.

    Attachment 272768

    So far I have only tested one driver at a time, all connected to the X axis, but I don't expect any surprise when they are built in and control all the axes. They seem to work fine together with my HyCNC-4L USB card, even if I don't replace the three resistors, but I think that just to be on the safe side, I will make that simple modification on every one of my controllers.

    Sorry for this long and slightly off topic post. After some careful considerations I ended up with this driver since there seems to be some uncertainty about the TB6600 based cards also, so I decided not to take a chance. I have so far not found any negative post or web information about the DQ542MA, so I figured that it should be fine, and I must say, so far I am extremely happy with my decision.

  17. #177
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    10

    Re: TB6600 drive from EBAY

    Hi!
    I have done some evaluation and modifications to the HY-DIV268N-5A stepper driver. Originally the device didn’t work at all. It’s a bit of junk and the Chinese should be ashamed to sell this. However, after reading this thread, doing some analyzing and massive modification I got it working.
    I did summarize my notes and modifications in a PDF document that I have attached.
    Regards

    Bo Gärdmark, SM6FIE, Sweden

  18. #178
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    14

    Re: TB6600 drive from EBAY

    bo.gardmark: Thank you Bo. Have been going over the words and schematic, Some of the reference numbers do not match up regarding the resistors but should be able to sort that. I have purchased the DM542MA stepper drivers from wanti but have yet to try them out. Still working on getting the belt drives right. Think I went too far with 5HTD parts with 21mm wide belts. Glad to have your experience and good work to learn from. 73's Burt K5MTV.

  19. #179
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    Jan 2005
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    1695

    Re: TB6600 drive from EBAY

    Thanks Bo. I did not see any step error when I tested the drive, but I am using a 40v 7amp power supply and 8 microsteps. I will retest when I have time.

  20. #180
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    Apr 2013
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    12

    Re: TB6600 drive from EBAY

    I found your post very helpful. I would be interested in knowing how the DQ542MA drivers are working now that you have had more time with them. Thanks, Jim

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