[tjamscad]

We have several Haas VMC's within our company. I just replaced a spindle not even a year ago and it has started to stick on tool changes. Has anyone else had this problem?

[Machineit]

This is normal, just clean the spindle bore once in a while. Try not to put a cold tool into a hot spindle too. Also clean the tool holders and put a small amount of grease on the pull stud.

Mike

[Geof]

And do a search in the Haas Mill forum you will find this problem has been discussed at length several times.

[tjamscad]

Does that mean there is a better way or a fix? I tried searching and didnt get anything.

[haastec]

This is normal, just clean the spindle bore once in a while. Try not to put a cold tool into a hot spindle too. Also clean the tool holders and put a small amount of grease on the pull stud.

Mike

+1

Clean your spindle and tool tapers!

[tjamscad]

Here is what puzzles me the one I replaced was on a VF6 we have a VR11 and VF10 that I have never had this complaint with. The operators dont even have WD40 by the machine and tools are left in over the weekend. Why only the VF6 the VR11 is run 10 times as hard?

[Geof]

Are the other machines the same spindle taper as the VF6?

Here are some previous threads/post on this problem.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/haas_m...k_spindle.html

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/haas_m...ol_holder.html

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/haas_m...ange_haas.html

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/haas_m...arm_114_a.html

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/haas_m...k_spindle.html

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/haas_m...amp_fault.html

[Machineit]

Here is what puzzles me the one I replaced was on a VF6 we have a VR11 and VF10 that I have never had this complaint with. The operators dont even have WD40 by the machine and tools are left in over the weekend. Why only the VF6 the VR11 is run 10 times as hard?

Not sure who replaced your spindle or whether it was properly run in, etc.. But, new spindles will generate more heat than spindles which have a lot of hours on them.

Why was the original spindle replaced? Have you verified that the machine with the new spindle has the proper air pressure going to the spindle lube/cooling system? Are you running a warm-up program for the spindle each morning?

You need to give a lot more info if you want it diagnosed on-line.

And, I personally would not use WD-40. It will dry and leave a sticky residue. If you use a lite oil or even grease (what I use once in a while) it is spread very very very thin. I run my spindle at 100 rpm or less and apply with my finger.

Let us know----Mike

[tjamscad]

Not sure who replaced your spindle or whether it was properly run in, etc.. But, new spindles will generate more heat than spindles which have a lot of hours on them.

Why was the original spindle replaced? Have you verified that the machine with the new spindle has the proper air pressure going to the spindle lube/cooling system? Are you running a warm-up program for the spindle each morning?

You need to give a lot more info if you want it diagnosed on-line.

And, I personally would not use WD-40. It will dry and leave a sticky residue. If you use a lite oil or even grease (what I use once in a while) it is spread very very very thin. I run my spindle at 100 rpm or less and apply with my finger.

Let us know----Mike

I replaced the spindle using the Haas procedure and break in.

The original spindle was replaced because the spindle did not clamp a face mill properly and spun the tool dogs off. I have not verified the proper air pressure at the head itself but the proper air pressure is going to the head. There is no warm up procedure ran on any of our machines at the start of the day. We run ten hours shifts and this has never been done here from what I am told.

I had the operator start using some DTE24 on the spindle taper a few weeks ago and he said it got better but it still gets stuck every now and then.

[Machineit]

I replaced the spindle using the Haas procedure and break in.

The original spindle was replaced because the spindle did not clamp a face mill properly and spun the tool dogs off. I have not verified the proper air pressure at the head itself but the proper air pressure is going to the head. There is no warm up procedure ran on any of our machines at the start of the day. We run ten hours shifts and this has never been done here from what I am told.

I had the operator start using some DTE24 on the spindle taper a few weeks ago and he said it got better but it still gets stuck every now and then.

When I mention the air supply I do not mean the 85 psi minimum to the machine. I mean the approximate 15 psi at the other regulator. Just so you know.

Running a warm up program would help, as it get the oil that pools at the bottom of the spindle out and helps to run cooler.

Mike

[tjamscad]

There is a FIX for this I have heard. It involves an insert and I am told spindles with this insert have lasted years. More information later Years from a Haas spindle.

[haastec]

There is a FIX for this I have heard. It involves an insert and I am told spindles with this insert have lasted years. More information later Years from a Haas spindle.

You have made this claim for two seperate spindle issues, so what exactly is this magical insert?

[stustev]

Gentlemen,
For this thread and the other thread where the FiX was talked about. There is no magical insert.
The insert is through hardened tool steel. The insert is 2 inch diameter and 2.05 long with a taper inside leaving material to remove after the insert is installed. To remove the original taper I bore the spindle 2 inches deep to create a .0015/.002 press fit for the insert OD. Boring the spindle two inches deep leaves approx .05 sticking out. Freezing the insert in liquid nitrogen reduces the size by .006. This allows the insert to easily siip in the bored hole in the spindle. I program the machine to bore the insert taper. I program two tapers to create a concave face of the taper. This allows the taper to contact the tool adapter in two places - top and bottom. This is the FIX - I have had it in 5 Haas machines - VR11, VF10, VF6 and two VF4's. We have no tool sticking, no more tool runout than when the inserts were installed. The machines cut better than when new. I tell people this turned the Haas machines into Mori's.
Haastec - Don't believe me? It is not possible for me to care ANY less what you think. Before I put the insert in the VF10 I had Spindle Grinding Service (from Michigan) grind the taper in the VF10. We ran the machine for two shifts. After running the two shifts the Spindle Grinding Service technician checked the taper and told me it needed ground again. Your spindles tapers are ****. Your company has been apprised of this fix (many years ago) and has chosen to ignore this issue.
Your machines are fine machines - NOW - after the insert is installed.
Just sayin
thanks

[stustev]

BTW - the inserts have been in the machines for more than 5 years each - the VF6 and VF10 for 10 years.

[haastec]

Gentlemen,
For this thread and the other thread where the FiX was talked about. There is no magical insert.
The insert is through hardened tool steel. The insert is 2 inch diameter and 2.05 long with a taper inside leaving material to remove after the insert is installed. To remove the original taper I bore the spindle 2 inches deep to create a .0015/.002 press fit for the insert OD. Boring the spindle two inches deep leaves approx .05 sticking out. Freezing the insert in liquid nitrogen reduces the size by .006. This allows the insert to easily siip in the bored hole in the spindle. I program the machine to bore the insert taper. I program two tapers to create a concave face of the taper. This allows the taper to contact the tool adapter in two places - top and bottom. This is the FIX - I have had it in 5 Haas machines - VR11, VF10, VF6 and two VF4's. We have no tool sticking, no more tool runout than when the inserts were installed. The machines cut better than when new. I tell people this turned the Haas machines into Mori's.
Haastec - Don't believe me? It is not possible for me to care ANY less what you think. Before I put the insert in the VF10 I had Spindle Grinding Service (from Michigan) grind the taper in the VF10. We ran the machine for two shifts. After running the two shifts the Spindle Grinding Service technician checked the taper and told me it needed ground again. Your spindles tapers are ****. Your company has been apprised of this fix (many years ago) and has chosen to ignore this issue.
Your machines are fine machines - NOW - after the insert is installed.
Just sayin
thanks

I am happy you could care any less about what I think and I never mentioned not believing in the FIX. I was merely pointing out the fact that tjamscad had posted in two threads about a Fix.

Was there some scepticism in my post? Sure, but it was because he had copied and pasted the exact same reply for two different issues without expanding on the FIX. I am not saying this was the intent, but there are plenty of replies on verious posts from other people who tease a solution which never gets detailed or ends up being spam.

I have never heard about the process you mentioned before. Also, I am not above learning something new and today you have educated me on something.

BTW, I do not make the spindles/tapers, nor does the company belong to me. As noted by my screen name, I just fix them. No other affiliation, sorry!

[stustev]

I am happy you could care any less about what I think and I never mentioned not believing in the FIX. I was merely pointing out the fact that tjamscad had posted in two threads about a Fix.

Was there some scepticism in my post? Sure, but it was because he had copied and pasted the exact same reply for two different issues without expanding on the FIX. I am not saying this was the intent, but there are plenty of replies on verious posts from other people who tease a solution which never gets detailed or ends up being spam.

I have never heard about the process you mentioned before. Also, I am not above learning something new and today you have educated me on something.

BTW, I do not make the spindles/tapers, nor does the company belong to me. As noted by my screen name, I just fix them. No other affiliation, sorry!

Well then I am sorry for my over reaction.

[tjamscad]

stustev do you sell this as a kit? Can I send you a spindle and you send it back with the insert?

[haastec]

Well then I am sorry for my over reaction.

:cheers:

[Geof]

:cheers:

Yes!

[SBC Cycle]

One of our new VF-2s does this constantly. It starts about 10 am on a normal day but gets rough as early as 9 am on a hot day. I have two of these machines bought at the same time and one difference between the two is the spindle cartridge is actually warm to the touch on the machine that "pops". I was told that they should never be warm, ever. They are 15,000 RPM direct drive oil cooled spindles.

Using an infrared heat gun I have been recording the temperature each morning after running the warm-up. It is not uncommon for the temperature on the outside of the cartridge to be 104-106 degrees F after a 20 minute spindle warmup (Program O02020 SPINDLE WARM-IN). It only gets warmer as the day goes on but never quite "hot". Haas has told me that it shouldn't be that warm yet they haven't found a reason to come look at it. I can definitely say the warmer it gets, the louder the bang.