584,862 active members*
5,353 visitors online*
Register for free
Login

View Poll Results: Should Mach Software Support SPI?

Voters
12. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    12 100.00%
  • No

    0 0%
  • Other(post in thread)

    0 0%
Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    1365

    Should Mach Support SPI?

    Hey guys,
    I don't know what Art thinks, because he realy doesnt post in the threads that ask, but maybe this will intice him if he gets a turnout.

    Tom from Rutex only realy has this to say:
    "I don't really know what Art will do with the "spi" but Vladimir believes that Art will have reasons to impliment it once it is available through an easy to use DLL."

    I think it will be a great addition and may even increase sales of Mach software.

    So what do you all think? Should he support SPI?


    Jon

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1880
    That would be awsome if he supported it. I personaly own some rutex boards.

    It would make his product more flexable and probably get more sales.

    personaly I think its a mistake to team up with one servo driver manufacturer no matter how good they are.

    Some people will want different packaging (personaly not a fan of little black box technology) and go elsewhere for no other reason. And then there is the specific work envelope of the driver (ie you might want or need a higher current or voltage ).


    And Of course the money issue, you might want an ebay find.
    thanks
    Michael T.
    "If you don't stand for something, chances are, you'll fall for anything!"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538
    Art's not supporting any certain drives. Mach3 sends step and direction signals, Mach4 does the same thing, it just uses the G-rex for much better performance. You can still use any step and direction drives with the G-Rex. You can't expect a one man operation to support every option out there.

    Now if I buy 5 R2030's for my motors, and Art supporting SPI means I won't need a G-Rex, then I'm all for it.

    I'm curious how many Rutex users there are vs Gecko users? Probably a much smaller market.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1880
    its probably a smaller market on the zone for sure. But then the DIY'ers on the Zone are almost exclusively price driven.

    I think rutex definitely has a following out on the comericial end of things.

    But I think gecko is a larger Company and probably has many distributers. I know I have seen gecko look alikes that are probably geckos repackaged by gecko for an Machine manufacturer.
    thanks
    Michael T.
    "If you don't stand for something, chances are, you'll fall for anything!"

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538
    Quote Originally Posted by miljnor
    I know I have seen gecko look alikes that are probably geckos repackaged by gecko for an Machine manufacturer.
    I think Mariss said that something like 90% of their business is to OEM's, and only 10% to hobbiests.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    750
    I was told that Marrise designed his drivers while working for a company called Centent, and at some point went off on his own with a similar looking line of products. Ive bought a bunch of Centents off ebay for nothing, they look exactly like geckos and have nearly identicle specs. New England Affiliated Tech. also has the same package. Whats a trip is that a Centent costs 500.00, last I checked. I have 6 or 7 of the Centent stepper drives, but I have yet to start using them, other than verifying operation.
    Halfnutz

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2

    SPI not a good choice

    SPI and it's sibling I2C was designed for inter board communications
    as in multifunctional chips in a TV or video which need to exchange setup data.
    At my work I have designed and implemented I2C on a large system where we go of-board trough ribbon cables in a A very noisy environment. Although we have made it work reliably it takes a lot of effort especially of the cabling is not defined.

    In noisy environments (heavy motor currents) I would opt for CAN bus (and have done so on our last project) or USB (also used in a noisy environment)and or Ethernet, all are differential transmission layers which are
    a lot more robust when it comes to electrical noise.

    The last thing you want is a run-away controller as it miss-read a byte of data

    my 2 p worth

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1880
    well if you can use spi for the setup and tune with all the prep that we put into it I would assume you could get it to work with the Mach control.

    But I am not an expert (or even a novice for that matter )
    thanks
    Michael T.
    "If you don't stand for something, chances are, you'll fall for anything!"

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    629
    I fail to see why he should. It's Art's software and he is the most accomodating software developer I have ever worked with. If he wants to he will add it in, if he doesn't, then he probably has a really good reason for it.

    Perhaps if you explain WHY it should be added and what it's advantages are, then I might understand why the request is even being made. Right now, I don't see any reason to have such a capability.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    1880
    Well golly gee maybe I will explain for the impaired.

    why should he? because there are people asking.

    And Yes he is accomodating. But He also got his start from DIY'ers Which (i know) is a very small market. Now he is hooked up with a commerical vendor for drives(gecko) and we are hoping he is still helping the little guys.

    If he wants to he will add it in, if he doesn't, then he probably has a really good reason for it.
    Boy I am realy glad your here to state the obvious man! With my mental impairement (and obvious lack of typing skills) I would never have figured this out.

    As far as what advantages: maybe none but also maybe a fast growing market share. Its hard to tell the future, you just make your stuff to do the best with the most and hope it takes off.

    I appoligize for my rant but you set me off man!
    thanks
    Michael T.
    "If you don't stand for something, chances are, you'll fall for anything!"

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    629
    Quote Originally Posted by miljnor
    Well golly gee maybe I will explain for the impaired.

    why should he? because there are people asking.

    And Yes he is accomodating. But He also got his start from DIY'ers Which (i know) is a very small market. Now he is hooked up with a commerical vendor for drives(gecko) and we are hoping he is still helping the little guys.



    Boy I am realy glad your here to state the obvious man! With my mental impairement (and obvious lack of typing skills) I would never have figured this out.

    As far as what advantages: maybe none but also maybe a fast growing market share. Its hard to tell the future, you just make your stuff to do the best with the most and hope it takes off.

    I appoligize for my rant but you set me off man!

    Ah yes, I can now see why Art should be so accomodating to people like you. Just because someone wants something is reason enough for someone else to do work. Well, I still don't understand, but then again I don't have to, I am not the guy that is being requested to do work for nothing in return. Although I guess I am just too "imparied" to understand these sorts of things. Ah heck, who am I kidding, I am too impaired to even walk and chew gum at the same time

    Good luck with that!

    Chris

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    35538
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris D
    I fail to see why he should..................................

    Perhaps if you explain WHY it should be added and what it's advantages are, then I might understand why the request is even being made. Right now, I don't see any reason to have such a capability.
    So that Rutex owners can get G-Rex like performance without having to buy a G-Rex.
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    2849
    Personally....what does SPI provide....just give me a bulleted list and what the advantages are......

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    1365
    2 big ones are:
    +Speed
    +less pins per axis

    It only takes 9 pins to run 7 axes

    Heres a link to a post I made on machsupport
    http://machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=338.0

    The main bennefit is the much higher speed, another nice one is that it needs less outputs per axis, this way you have the ability to use those pins for other items.

    Jon

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    24216
    I agree with jbtoby (above), why not go with a more robust industry standard Like CANbus with all the 100's of vendors to chose from in compatible products.
    CANopen is a comprehensive embedded machine network, with support for drives, I/O modules, PLC's, sensors, etc.
    I am suprised that there has not been a move away before from the restrictive parallel port.
    Al.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.

  16. #16

    Spi :)

    Hi Guys:

    First, let me mention that I dont get here as much as Id like, but mostly because of time contraints. (Im so bogged with code that its hard some days to surf about. Luckily, I have hobgoblins about who send me little notices when such a discussion is going on and feel I should speak up. (Thanks Goblin! )

    Vlad is a great guy, and makes great drives. The orginal Rutex Tuner in Mach2 was written for SPI as even the original Rutex drives used spi, not just the new ones. The technical considerations are vast when try to conform to somethign liek SPI OR GRex. They are filled with headaches, work and fussing. Since the G100 came along first, it is my priority at the moment, but Vlad is quite likely correct, once Ive done the work of making a tcp protocol work, the same code is well adapted to SPI done from a separate Dll.

    As to the rumours that most of my work these days is not hobby orientated, , just a rumour. In fact I turn down more OEM work than is healthy in a one-man operation. My roots are DIY, and I intend to remain there, not for financial reasons, but because its more satisfying. ArtSoft is 50% OEM and 50% DIY at this point. I work very hard to keep the numbers there as a matter of managing my time. Since I work on so many things these days.. (Mach3, LazyCam and G100's MachIV, I can be slow to respond to some requests these days, but even that will ease as I catch up.

    Once the G100 is merrily puttering along, Ill eventually look at hooking in to Vlads DLL's, or perhaps even helping with their development should the opportunity arise, but its more important that I kill the demons facing me first so I can get back to a managable schedule.

    I appreciate all the comments here, I know of the interest, and I always try to go where the interest is. You have to be aware though, that there are technical reasons for most things I limit, and SPI is one of them so far. All serial modes are just that..serial. They tend to slowness. Imagine sending 6 axis, 32 bits per command, and doing it in a bit bang fashion. The time is WAYYY to much for Mach3 to handle in the context of what it does now. Using SPI at all, (Just as using a Grex at all) requires the printer port to be turned off. In other words whatever replacement technology is used for a printer port, it MUST also take over the IO considerations. This is another consideration when the decision to use a port replacement technology is made. This isnt a hit on anyones technology, just a reminder that what sounds easy, is often from my perspective filled with potholes and work. The G100 project is taking VAST amounts of time, I do believe it has great promise, but its a very hard technology to math into the rather unique way Mach3 works. Once doen , Im hoping it will lead to many more breakthroughs
    in possabilities for hardware control...

    Thanks
    Art
    www.gearotic.com
    Art Fenerty

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    162

    Glad to see you here again, Art :)

    ART,

    Glad to see you here, and happy you were available to speak for yourself. i had questions I had planned to ask myself but all have been answered as a result of others asking them first
    Hope fully everybody will be able to settle down and get back to our main reason for being here.. LEARNING & HAVING FUN !!

    Eddie

    p.s.. Hope to have a paypal to you this coming week for my Mach3 license. Your assistance towards me so far has been EXEMPLARY.. and I'm not even a true customer yet.. That will change this coming week though !!

    p.s.s... One last question I believe was answered, but i want confirmation on .. when SPi was referred to, they WERE referring to the SPI standard that I have seen referenced in reagrds to microcontrollers, correct? So they are referring to wishing that MACH 3 (4?) will offload the commands to the processor which would then send the signals to the motor drivers.. am i correct in my understanding of what they are asking for ??

  18. #18
    Hi Ed:

    YEs, SPI is a two line based commincations system, You put data and clock signals on two lines and strobe the data through bit by bit.. I would assume the DLL being developed is taking process commands such as rate words and sending them to the Rutex., much the way MachIV sends rate commands to the G100. Quite similar in reality, just different protocols....

    In some ways the G100 is superior, in others the Rutex is superior. All methods in CNC have tradeoffs, we'll discover them together over the next year..


    Art
    www.gearotic.com
    Art Fenerty

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    162
    hahaha.. sounds like in the olden days of the TRS-80 Color Computer.. had what they referred to as a bit-banging Serial output.. You had to load the data into an array, then sequentially place each bit into the register and toggle the clock.. wait fo the ACK bit to set, then clear it and start with the next bit.. pretty much limited to about 1200 Baud in those days. Of course, that was with . 0.77MHZ processor, if I remember my system specs correctly.. Certainly under 1MHz, but not sure of the exact speed.



    Quote Originally Posted by Art Fenerty
    Hi Ed:

    YEs, SPI is a two line based commincations system, You put data and clock signals on two lines and strobe the data through bit by bit.. I would assume the DLL being developed is taking process commands such as rate words and sending them to the Rutex., much the way MachIV sends rate commands to the G100. Quite similar in reality, just different protocols....

    In some ways the G100 is superior, in others the Rutex is superior. All methods in CNC have tradeoffs, we'll discover them together over the next year..


    Art

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •